br-nse-fan Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hi all First off, my apologies if this has already been addressed, but a Google search as well as a search of this forum did not return an answer. I finally got around to getting my 58 out and having a look. First impressions are very positive! Need to sort out the lighting, but that seems to be a pretty straight forward fix. The more glaring problem that I seem to have come across is that Heljan have placed the NEM pocket too high, thus causing the train to become uncoupled quite frequently. It looks like I may have to modify the coupling pocket similar to what some have done with the Bachmann MK1 & MK2 coaches. The Bachmann wagon on the left is one of the newer releases of the MEA wagons and has the NEM pocket at the correct height, and the 58 (obviously) is on the right. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 It might be possible to invert the NEM pocket (if it's one of those fishtail jobbies) s those are asymetrical though the difference is only about a half mm which isn't going to make much headway on that height difference, though in that case you could also not push the pocket fully upwards when you've flipped it and pack it with some plasticard. Of course if the pocket is integral to the bogie disregard everything I've just said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 It might be possible to invert the NEM pocket (if it's one of those fishtail jobbies) s those are asymetrical though the difference is only about a half mm which isn't going to make much headway on that height difference, though in that case you could also not push the pocket fully upwards when you've flipped it and pack it with some plasticard. Of course if the pocket is integral to the bogie disregard everything I've just said Hi Frobisher Unfortunately Heljan has used a NEM pocket that is mounted to the bogie, but is not fixed. Hard to explain. I've attached a couple photo's... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hi Frobisher Unfortunately Heljan has used a NEM pocket that is mounted to the bogie, but is not fixed. Hard to explain. I've attached a couple photo's... Are the tension lock couplings that came with it cranked or not? If they are normal, non-cranked couplings, then it could indicate that there's been an assembly error on the bogies for the NEM mount and it may be fixable by dissambling the bogies and reassembling in the correct manner (say there's a spacer that's been assembled under the mount when it it should be over the mount for instance). This is also guess work, but again it could be that the NEM pocket assembly was put in upside down at the factory. If teh couplings are cranked, it kinda indicates that Heljan intend things to be like this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 My own (early production) HJ class 58 is long ago sold now, I can't particularly remember the coupling being out of alignment as in your picture - what I had a huge problem with was that the NEM pocket was on such a long bar projecting from the bogie, when I coupled up to a scale length MGR train, my Kadees simply rode up and disengaged! It just wouldn't pull the train at all. I solved this by using a pair of tension locks, which I hated! Possibly Trix/Marklin or the newer Roco auto couplers might have helped, I don't know. It certainly does seem to be the standard HJ swivelling coupling solution fitted to the 58, presumably the same system is on "Kestrel" but that coped okay! Be interesting if a solution comes up, anyway. Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Looks like you will have to glue a NEM pocket under the exsisting NEM pocket? What lighting issues are you having with yours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Looks like you will have to glue a NEM pocket under the exsisting NEM pocket? What lighting issues are you having with yours? I am thinking I'll have to glue the Kadee on.. disappointing.. oh well.. The lights flicker, such as the headlights flickering off and the tail light coming back on.. mostly only when going over points. The loco does not jerk or stutter, and none of my other locos seem to have any flickering lights when traveling over the same track work. The loco has a TCS decoder installed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 On my Heljan locos, I remove the coupler pocket & glue on some styrene and a Kadee #252 box & a whisker coupler #148 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 I am thinking I'll have to glue the Kadee on.. disappointing.. oh well.. The lights flicker, such as the headlights flickering off and the tail light coming back on.. mostly only when going over points. The loco does not jerk or stutter, and none of my other locos seem to have any flickering lights when traveling over the same track work. The loco has a TCS decoder installed The lights issue is a long known problem on early 58s, (Yours is one of the first batches isn't it?) There are two capacitors on the circuit board that are meant to keep the lights a little more constant on DC but they cause problems on DCC. Cutting any one leg of either of them breaks the circuit and cures the problem. Later 58s did not have them fitted. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60966-Heljan-58-capacitors/ and http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14139&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Heljan+58+caps&start=50#p221588 Note before the topic gets derailed: These are NOT RF capacitors so please no discussion about caps and DCC as they are nothing to do with THAT discussion Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 Hi all First off, my apologies if this has already been addressed, but a Google search as well as a search of this forum did not return an answer. I finally got around to getting my 58 out and having a look. First impressions are very positive! Need to sort out the lighting, but that seems to be a pretty straight forward fix. The more glaring problem that I seem to have come across is that Heljan have placed the NEM pocket too high, thus causing the train to become uncoupled quite frequently. It looks like I may have to modify the coupling pocket similar to what some have done with the Bachmann MK1 & MK2 coaches. The Bachmann wagon on the left is one of the newer releases of the MEA wagons and has the NEM pocket at the correct height, and the 58 (obviously) is on the right. 2012-12-30_00-39-19_504.jpg Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance! I would do what Ron Solly describes in his post. However, if you need to retain the flexible mounting, try this: Cut out the bottom of the pocket, add sufficient packing (plastic strip) between the top of the pocket and the Kadee, superglue it all together then make the fix permanent with a 12BA nut and bolt through the whole lot. This is the method I used on Bachmann Mk.1 CCU's before Roger Keen produced his replacement links. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I am thinking I'll have to glue the Kadee on.. disappointing.. oh well.. There was a previous topic on RMWeb where a NEM shamk Kadee coupler was modified to fit the over-height pocket on a Heljan Class 33. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23617 Scroll down to Mike Parkes post for instructions and further down to where he has a photo. Basically he has created an underset head from a Kadee NEM coupler and a spare NEM shank. I think the screwed together construction of this is far more secure than gluing on another pocket and keeps the loco in original condition. Happy New Year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thanks for all the help! Will take a look and get back with the results! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I am thinking I'll have to glue the Kadee on.. disappointing.. oh well.. The lights flicker, such as the headlights flickering off and the tail light coming back on.. mostly only when going over points. The loco does not jerk or stutter, and none of my other locos seem to have any flickering lights when traveling over the same track work. The loco has a TCS decoder installed I am using a Bachmann decoder but my problem with the lights is that the white flickers on the opposite end of travel. It does it going in either direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2013 I am using a Bachmann decoder but my problem with the lights is that the white flickers on the opposite end of travel. It does it going in either direction. As per my links above, remove the lighting circuit capacitors and this problem will go away. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 As per my links above, remove the lighting circuit capacitors and this problem will go away. Andi Just to make sure, that before I go snipping things, the two black things on the left are what need to be snipped? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2013 Just to make sure, that before I go snipping things, the two black things on the left are what need to be snipped? 2013-01-01_19-37-46_191.jpg Thanks! Yep, you don't even need to remove them, just cut one leg of either one and the problem will be solved. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Yep, you don't even need to remove them, just cut one leg of either one and the problem will be solved. Andi Great... Thanks Andi! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 There was a previous topic on RMWeb where a NEM shamk Kadee coupler was modified to fit the over-height pocket on a Heljan Class 33. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23617 Scroll down to Mike Parkes post for instructions and further down to where he has a photo. Basically he has created an underset head from a Kadee NEM coupler and a spare NEM shank. Thanks for the link. I've created a test coupler made out of a pair of the Bachmann EZ knuckle couplers and some extra strength epoxy. Letting it set for 24hrs and will see how it turns out later tonight. If this works, then I'll look at adapting the more expensive Kadee in the same manner. I opted to use the Bachmann coupler for the test as I bought 24 pairs for about $15 a couple years ago... so if I butcher one, no great loss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 "Thanks for the link. I've created a test coupler made out of a pair of the Bachmann EZ knuckle couplers and some extra strength epoxy" You don't need to use a Kadee for the NEM pronged end - any surplus Hornby, Bachmann or Heljan NEM shanked coupler can be used... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 "Thanks for the link. I've created a test coupler made out of a pair of the Bachmann EZ knuckle couplers and some extra strength epoxy" You don't need to use a Kadee for the NEM pronged end - any surplus Hornby, Bachmann or Heljan NEM shanked coupler can be used... :-) Oh, I did... I guess I should have been clearer... I used an old Hornby NEM coupler with the loop and hook removed, and glued the Bachmann EZ coupler to that. I'll post a couple pics when I get in tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hi All Forgot to take pictures last night, the little one kept me busy until 11pm! I'll get some done tonight or tomorrow... however, the custom cranked Knuckle coupler seems to have done the trick! The coupler now lines up perfectly with the Kadee height guage and the wagons I have tested with. I also snipped one of the legs off of the lighting capacitors and the flicker is gone from the head & tail lights. With the removal of these from the circuit, it *seems* as if the loco is running smoother, but it's probably just a trick as the lights are not flickering thus seeming to run smoother Thanks again to all who provided help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 3, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2013 I also snipped one of the legs off of the lighting capacitors and the flicker is gone from the head & tail lights. With the removal of these from the circuit, it *seems* as if the loco is running smoother, but it's probably just a trick as the lights are not flickering thus seeming to run smoother Glad to have been able to help. Did it solve your problem too thebritfarmer? Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Note before the topic gets derailed: These are NOT RF capacitors so please no discussion about caps and DCC as they are nothing to do with THAT discussion Hi Andi Is there an RF cap in the 58 that should be removed? If you look at the photo of the circuit board I posted above, there does appear to be one visible just to the right of the lighting caps. After running it last night, it appears to be fairly smooth, although there does appear to be some slight stuttering from time to time. This may just be track that is a little dirty, but I thought I would ask just in case. Derek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 3, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2013 There is, the little brown flat disc, you can remove that and it may improve slow speed control, it won't make it any worse either way. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi All As promised, a couple quick pics showing the corrected height, as well as what the coupler looks like... the coupler pic is a little out of focus as the camera wants to focus on the wheels, not the coupler... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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