Modelling a traditional parcels train

[Michael Delamar]

[Michael Delamar]

D249chj66-2 by big al750, on Flickr

[Clive Mortimore]

because im a bit thick and a slow learner, im going to ask that if I post a pic, could the first person who knows point out what  the vans are in the train and what company they are available from, product code may be a good idea too if known, especially for the livery. preferably 00 but whatever scale your most familiar with.

 

also, is there any sort of estimate on a date when crimson was last seen on any parcels stock, Im guessing it got a longer stay of execution than passenger stock?

 

heres a couple of nice images..

 

R1369  LMS Parcels Van Leicester Central 18Apr1964 by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

 

R1370  LNER Parcels Van Leicester Central 18Apr1964 by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

Hi Michael

 

Crimson would have struggled pass the mid 1960s. It is hard sometimes to say what red a parcels coach is due to their normal coating of muck and that many maroon parcels coaches were unlined like the two in these photos. The LMS one is an ex WW2 ambulance car that started life as a ordinary passenger coach. Need to look in the Essary and Jenkinson coach books for information on them.

 

This must have been about the last parcels train I photographed. Sorry all BR stock. I think it must be about 1990.

 

 

 

Guess where we were on holiday?

[Fat Controller]

Further to Clive's contribution above; the second van is a LNER Thompson Full Brake. I would guess it was a wartime build, and thus the steel sheeting normally used was ommitted. I seem to recollect seeing a Gresley van which was vertically-planked, rather than panelled, probably for similar reasons.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Brian

 

The LNER full brake is a Diagram 327 built 1945-6. 50 new builds and 3 on accident victims underframes. Mailcoach use to make a lovely plastic kit for this coach and (I think) Mallard models made a etched version. I had both to build but in my downsizing exercise I off loaded them on to some fellow Witham Club members. Nice looking coach.

 

The LMS coach is possibly a diagram D2129, the guards door opens outwards. Diagram D2130 was similar but inward opening guards doors and the van doors were in a slightly different position. Each one of these two diagrams had loads of body variations resulting from the different original coaches the ambulance cars were converted from and the different roles the coaches performed as ambulance carriages and the amount of original panelling left. Using the old Mainline Period 1 LMS coach one of these could be made.

 

Clive

Edited January 6, 2013 by Clive Mortimore

[Poor Old Bruce]

I've recently taken down last year's 'Steam World' calendar. The centre spread photo is a parcels train on the Copy Pit line in 1964. It shows a Black Five (the caption says it's an 8F but it ain't!) hauling:

 

SR CCT which may be dirty green

LMS Stove R in dirty maroon

SR Van C in dirt

BR Mk1 BG in clean Blue and Grey

BR GUV in maroon

Possibly a Fruit D but difficult to identify due to drifting steam

LMS 50ft BG in maroon

SE Van C in dirt

Unsure. Possibly a GWR BG in maroon

BR GUV

 

Most of these available RTR in 4mm

[Michael Delamar]

I've recently taken down last year's 'Steam World' calendar. The centre spread photo is a parcels train on the Copy Pit line in 1964. It shows a Black Five (the caption says it's an 8F but it ain't!) hauling:

 

SR CCT which may be dirty green

LMS Stove R in dirty maroon

SR Van C in dirt

BR Mk1 BG in clean Blue and Grey

BR GUV in maroon

Possibly a Fruit D but difficult to identify due to drifting steam

LMS 50ft BG in maroon

SE Van C in dirt

Unsure. Possibly a GWR BG in maroon

BR GUV

 

Most of these available RTR in 4mm

 

yes but which manufacturers chaps? I know comet do a kit of the Stove R, id just like to compile the list so it can help people.

[jwealleans]

Right Mike, because it's you and I like parcels stock... I wouldn't get my NPCCS out for anyone, you know.... This is most of the parcels stock we use on Thurston (that is to say, it's what belongs to me). This is Great Eastern Region, earlier part of the 1950s and not in any real order except how it came out of the boxes.

 

 

Thompson BZ. This is a kit from Electrifying Trains which I think is still available. Instructions were a bit basic but it went together well. Comet do the sides for this, I believe, but you have to make the rest yourself.

 

 

Kirk Gresley BG. Not a standard one, though - this is a former ECJS underframe reused. I cut down the sides slightly and scratchbuilt the rest. I ought to do a standard 61'6" one to show the difference.

 

 

Great Eastern 50' full brake (converted from a ambulance coach IIRC). Bill Bedford etched body, Worsley Works floor and the rest scratchbuilt.

 

 

D & S Great Eastern Special Cattle Van. Bought at a swapmeet glued together and painted bright blue. John Peck made the transfers for me.

 

 

LNER Pigeon Brake. Not confined to the Great Eastern. This one is D & S etched brass but the Chivers plastic kit looks as good and is easier to find.

 

 

Lima LMS 42' full brake. I did this one this summer after seeing Larry's thread. The body is just repainted and has wire handrails; roof vents replaced; Bachmann LMS bogies. Dead easy.

 

 

Parkside PC40 LMS Motor Car van. Like all Parkside kits, very easy to build, easy to add detail if you need to. Is this the one Hornby are doing?

 

 

Parkside PC30 LNER long CCT. We run two of these. As above, really; this one benefits from more robust steps, better roof vents and extra brake gear as it's quite visible.

 

 

Kirk inside framed Monster. Not currently available as far as I know but they do pop up on Ebay. This one is pretty much out of the packet apart from replacement bogies from Blacksmith.

 

 

LNER CCT. Built by the LNER to an NER design, hence the slightly antiquated appearance. This is a Chivers etched brass kit, until recently available again from Five79 Models and I believe to be made available again soon. This is the model used to illustrate the kit on the Five79 website.

 

 

ex-Southern BY (?) We used to have one of these from a Parkside kit, but that is no longer available to us so this is a Hornby replacement. Remove couplings, fit screw links, weather. An excellent model.

 

 

Thompson full brake. This is available from a number of source; Bachmann, Coopercraft, Comet. This is the Blacksmith (ex-Mallard) etched kit. From what I recall it was a really good kit to build. This is the kit Clive refers to above.

 

That's about it. We also used to have a Gresley 51' BG and an ex-LNWR BG, both from Comet. The LNWR one was a lovely looking thing. I also have a number of horseboxes built as we work towards a Hunt Special but most of them generally run in this set as well. We generally make up two trains from the above.

 

One further point; we tend to refer to 'parcels' trains, but forget about 'stock' trains, used to move stock from place to place. For the last few shows I've run a Restaurant Car in the 'stock' train with most of what you've seen above, ostensibly on its' way back from works. In fact, I just haven't built the other one of the pair yet, but it raises comment.

 

Was that the sort of thing you were looking for, Mike?

 

Edit - realised I'd managed to miss one.

 

 

This started life as a Lima 'Palethorpes' GUV, repainted and with a Blacksmith detailing kit to convert to a BR built example.. IIRC the bogies in the kit were wrong for this vehicle but ended up under the 'Monster'. The then proprietor of Blacksmith was very helpful at the time. I believe the Blacksmith 4mm range is now woth Coopercraft.

Edited October 17, 2018 by jwealleans

[billyb_imp]

Amazing I was just thinking about putting up a question on the forum about parcel trains and someone (well its lots of you really) as already supplied all the answers above

[Ravenser]

Another SR Van

 

S1797 Man Vic 31 Jan 1981

S1797 MV 310181.jpg

 

It is Blue under the grime and had been to Crewe,Chester and Bristol recently

 

Nice wethering exercise ?

 

 

Nope...

 

I've built a Parkside PMV, and trying to get a reasonable weathered effect has been a pig . It's been fiddled with and given an additional light spray or wash twice since I thought I'd done, and I'm still not quite happy. Judging by that photo , it could do with being slightly lighter and greyer and more ochre. Any trace of the blue I painted it has long disappeared

 

And after weathering my blue Van B , it has acquired a green tinge.... 

[Ravenser]

BR CCT upgrade

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/296/entry-9843-a-small-parcel-arrives/

 

Ratio Southern Van B - now superceded by Hornby

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/296/entry-9587-the-end-is-nigh/

 

I've also flushglazed and weathered a Mainline ex LMS BG - though I think it probably should be all blue with plated ends not blue/grey with gangways

 

Someone gave me a Triang  ex SR Passenger Luggage Van, which they had acquired partly upgraded . It's out of period: still worse according to Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 3 , the originals came in 2 lengths - 51'3" and 53'3" - and Triang's model doesn't match either

 

Fat Controller

I don't know of any 6-wheel ex-LMS Fish vans in parcels use; the ones I remember were to be seen, into the early 1980s, painted in olive green and branded 'STORES VAN', carrying loco and DMMU spares from Crewe and Derby Works. I can imagine these, like their WR 'ENPARTS' counterparts, might be found in parcels trains on occasion.         

 

Interesting:

I have a DMU fuelling point , and the layout is set in the Midlands. I'd assumed these vans were out of period for me but perhaps I could justify one , to be shunted onto the fuelling point as an alternative to a TTA...

 

I am also toying with the idea of recycling the Blue Spot fish van off the boxfile (where it is really a bit large) and repainting in rail blue as an SPV for DMU tail traffic  

[Michael Delamar]

Right Mike, because it's you and I like parcels stock...Was that the sort of thing you were looking for, Mike?

Im flattered and yes it was. great modelling.

 

what id like is if I post a pic like this, someone to tell us all what the vans are and from who they are available from,

a bit like a shopping list, could call that lazy but im sure im not the only one reading who isnt too well up on everything.

 

D2xx Arten Gill Viaduct 11.8.68 by George of Dufton, on Flickr

['CHARD]

Lovely shot Mike, and I like it even more because given the date it would make a typical Waverley route formation in the line's last months.

 

From what I can make out, it comprises:

 

1. LMS GUV (?) in weathered maroon

2. SR PMV/CCT newly in blue

3. SR PMV in crud brown over green possibly (no way of knowing)

4 - 7. 12T vent vans

8. BG in blue and grey

9. BR CCT in crud

10. LMS BG in filthy maroon

 

I'm saving this for record, as it's one I'll replicate on Teviotbank in due course.  Lovely find!

 

1 - we have another pic of, behind a Peak at Steele Road - think people have created by mashing the Lima GUV with Bachmann LMS bogies etc.

2,3 - Dapol ex-Wrenn (?) - clumsy moulding, Parkside current range, Bachmann future release

4 - 7 - need more advice on, they're not uniform

8 - Bachmann, Replica

9 - Limby/ Horna

10 - Mainline/ Bachmann

 

EDIT: I got rid of my Lima LMS GUV several years ago, and what a mistake that turned out to be, since I moved my modelling period to '68.  Still, eBay just heaved-up a couple of mint specimens - one maroon, one blue - since I posted the above 

Edited January 6, 2013 by 'CHARD

[Michael Delamar]

cheers Chard, so is this right?

 

1. LMS GUV (?) in weathered maroon.               Lima

2. SR PMV/CCT newly in blue                            Bachmann are doing?

3. SR PMV in crud brown over green possibly            " "

4 - 7. 12T vent vans                                            Bachmann

8. BG in blue and grey                                        Bachmann

9.BR CCT in crud                                               Lima

10. LMS BG in filthy maroon                               Bachmann

 

 

 

edit, see you've edited as I was posting, cheers thats the sort of info Im after.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Michael Delamar

['CHARD]

Mate, I'm by no means an expert, but I reckon the basics are nailed.  

 

Speaking of which, I bet the enthusiasts of '68 couldn't have envisaged a world where I was able to source two pairs of replacement LMS bogies for my freshly harvested LMS GUVs after 11pm on a Sunday!  Now to check out Dave FRK's Lanarkshire site for buffers!

Edited January 6, 2013 by 'CHARD

[Michael Delamar]

how well is the Bachmann LMS BG thought of?

Edited January 6, 2013 by Michael Delamar

[Michael Delamar]

just found this thread, doesnt seem like 5 years ago..

 

http://rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13892

['CHARD]

That thread's a killer!

 

I sorted my buffers out - "Back of the net!"

 

(if Alan Partridge was a railway modeller he'd be tweaking Lima GUVs, I'm sure)

[Michael Delamar]

more? or should that be Moore

 

44674 Moore 1.8.67 by George of Dufton, on Flickr

[jcm@gwr]

Right Mike, because it's you and I like parcels stock... I wouldn't get my NPCCS out for anyone, you know....  This is most of the parcels stock we use on Thurston (that is to say, it's what belongs to me).  This is Great Eastern Region, earlier part of the 1950s and not in any real order except how it came out of the boxes.

 

 

Thompson BZ. This is a kit from Electrifying Trains which I think is still available. Instructions were a bit basic but it went together well. Comet do the sides for this, I believe, but you have to make the rest yourself.

 

 

Sorry to be a bit of a pedant, but I think you mean Marc Models, not Electrifying Trains, as the latter does '0' gauge (mainly

Southern EMU's). I know it's the same guy, (Mike, and it's the same shed!) but it will make it easier for anyone looking for

that kit to search the right website.

Pedant mode off!

Cheers, Jeff

['CHARD]

more? or should that be Moore

 

44674 Moore 1.8.67 by George of Dufton, on Flickr

 

SR CCT/PMV - BR CCT - LNER CCT (long)? - BR CCT - BR BG - ??GW?? - SR CCT/PMV - LMS GUV - BR GUV - 2 x SR CCT/PMV/ BY? - BR BG

 

If that's a long LNER CCT, it's a Parkside beast, as said above in this thread.  

I can't suss the vehicle with recessed doors without reference to Paul Bartlett's site,

The LMS GUV is another of the non-panelled diagram I think.  Didn't Jamie do one of these a year or so ago?

The pair of SR pattern vans at the rear look different to me, hence I think one may be a (Hornby) BY.

[Michael Delamar]

I think ill get some of Bachmann PMV's in green when they come out to add a bit of colour amongst the maroon.

nice shot of a weathered one on Paul bartletts site at Kings cross in 1964. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srpmv/h1e701a93#h1e701a93

 

in green right up to the end of steam should be ok, albeit filthy, but just wondering roughly how long into the blue era that they survived in green?

['CHARD]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, under the grot, a few of these received exams and had body planking or panels locally patched-up without necessarily getting a full repaint until some time into the seventies.  I expect maybe a few were withdrawn in grot over green, but the later survivors (and there were many) probably all made into blue by the latter half of the decade.

[jwealleans]

I think you mean Marc Models, not Electrifying Trains

 

That's quite possible - I bought it just after it was released (about 2004/5?) and it was sold under the Electrifying Trains name at that time.  I know both he and it will be at Nottingham Show in March if anyone is interested in having a look.

[Enterprisingwestern]

That thread's a killer!

 

I sorted my buffers out - "Back of the net!"

 

(if Alan Partridge was a railway modeller he'd be tweaking Lima GUVs, I'm sure)

 

I'm presuming you didn't use Dave's buffers, as he doesn't do flat topped LMS coach buffers, who's did you get ? I've used either the Comet or 247 standard ones and filed the flat on.

 

As a further aside, when did bogie CCT's start being called GUV's?, confuses the hell out of me cos I call the Lima model the former and everyone else seems to call it the latter, even though 4 wheel CCT's still are CCT's

 

Mike