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When Do We Vote?


iL Dottore

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Now that the deadline for the 2012 Challenges has come and gone, and we are well into the New Year. Do we have a time frame for getting the voting machinery in place on RMWeb and for the voting itself?

 

I'm just concerned that with all the excitment generated by the BCB layout's imminent appearance at Doncaster (not to mention the work associated with that project), the 2012 Challenges will be overlooked and perhaps forgotten1...

 

I, for one, already have my shortlist of favourites to vote for...

 

iD

 

1 to paraphrase a certain Mr H Wilson "a week is a long time in railway modelling"

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  • 3 weeks later...

Again, I repeat my question "when do we vote on the 2012 challenges"?

 

I understand Andy Y now has many commitments, both for RMWeb and for Warners, but I think that by delaying the vote, this will result in a much lower participation in the next challenge (if any further challenges are held), and no voting at all will -at least to my eyes- send all the wrong messages to the participants in the challenge.

 

I confess an interest, I submitted two pieces, but I am under no illusions about my work, I just want to see the results of the challenge, no matter what the outcome

 

Now that the BCB layout has made its first appearance, perhaps attention can be returned to the challenges?

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Again, I repeat my question "when do we vote on the 2012 challenges"?

 

I understand Andy Y now has many commitments, both for RMWeb and for Warners, but I think that by delaying the vote, this will result in a much lower participation in the next challenge (if any further challenges are held), and no voting at all will -at least to my eyes- send all the wrong messages to the participants in the challenge.

 

I confess an interest, I submitted two pieces, but I am under no illusions about my work, I just want to see the results of the challenge, no matter what the outcome

 

Now that the BCB layout has made its first appearance, perhaps attention can be returned to the challenges?

 

I was wondering whether all the participants are getting worried that their efforts over 6 months, are going to be ignored, as in just over 4 weeks on the 8th Birthday of RMWeb, i.e. 15th March, the 2013 Challenge should be initiated

 

Certain sayings come to mind -

 

Beware the Ides of March - how many members are going to get involved again?

Do the efforts of the few outweigh the efforts of the many? - slightly reworded

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  • 2 weeks later...

Again, I repeat my question "when do we vote on the 2012 challenges"?

 

I understand Andy Y now has many commitments, both for RMWeb and for Warners, but I think that by delaying the vote, this will result in a much lower participation in the next challenge (if any further challenges are held), and no voting at all will -at least to my eyes- send all the wrong messages to the participants in the challenge.

 

I confess an interest, I submitted two pieces, but I am under no illusions about my work, I just want to see the results of the challenge, no matter what the outcome

 

Now that the BCB layout has made its first appearance, perhaps attention can be returned to the challenges?

 

I doubt I’ll enter any future competitions unless the judging is to take place at an event (the Chairman’s cup at Scaleforum for example).

 

I was under the impression the time line for the challenge was that entries were to be complete by the end of Oct, with the judging to take place in Dec. To that end I was disappointed to see that the ‘Model of the year’ poll was up and running in Jan, and seems to have taken precedence over the challenge voting, I can only surmise that ‘commercial interests’ have influenced the forum.

 

Jonathan

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Maybe that's the innovative bit of the Innovation Challenge, a totally new way of voting where nobody knows the results because they're not collected, perfect for the modern non-competetive world because there can be no losers, there can be no winners either but nothing's perfect.  :scratchhead:

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This 'competition' certainly seems to have been swept under the carpet which, even though I didn't get to complete, I still find quite insulting to those who did - and most busted a gut to do so. I remember reading that some have sacrificed family time to do this. And the lack of any response adds to the insult.

 

Wholly not impressed.

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Yes it would appear that Warners interests are now beginning to affect RMweb. No dis-respect to Andy but he can only do so much and with his responsibilities at Warners taking precedence it's inevitable that something has to give. Does seem a shame though that the hard work put in by the entrants looks like it was all wasted.  :scratchhead: 

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The question then arises, why are this thread and the rest of the Innovation Challenge topics in the Warners zone of the forum if apparently of so little interest to Warners?

 

Just a thought does that mean there is an implied right of ownership of anything produced for the challenge. By that I mean Warners can choose to feature any of the challenge projects in BRM without the permission of the owner?

 

Maybe one of the Mods or Andy could provide an official line before this thread gets off topic?

 

Jonathan

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As this has been reported by one of the participants I shall post a reply in Andy's absence.

 

It may have been noticed by one or two of you that the forum has had a few difficulties over the recent days with all of the changes by the hosting company.  I can say that Andy is out all day today on important business assisting one of the members with matters that are also important for a different reason.

 

Andy has literally hundreds of emails and pm s each day and the content on here at times will become lost in amongst it all.  It is important to those of you that have posted in this thread and rest assured it is important to Andy and no doubt Warners.  I would just request  a little more patience and I feel sure Andy will respond as and when he has the time.

 

I shall flag this thread up in our private area for Andy to become aware of it and then that makes sure he has seen it.  Believe me it is easy to miss things on here with the amount of posts that the forum receive each day.

 

For those of you who are getting a little edgy and wondering why you bother all I can do is offer apologies on behalf of Andy but once more ask you to be a little more patient.  As I have said Andy is out all day so it may well be sometime later this evening when he has opportunity to log in and see this.

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Perhaps Andy could find a volunteer to run / organise / collate results? He already has a few "Sub-forum moderators" based on the group owners section ("Backofanenvelope" broke cover this week!) so outside help is not a new concept.

Similarly, another long languishing Item is the allocating and distribution of prizes from the fund-raising raffle associated with the Open Day at Stafford some 18 months ago. Andy has said that this task "weighs on his conscience" but other pressures seem to prevent him progressing this job. (I confess an interest ...  my ticket was drawn (IIRC) 4th from last of the 30-odd prizes.)

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I appreciate what you've said, Mod 5, and shall await any sort of response.

 

I think it's worth mentioning, and it is relevant, that there has been a substantial amount of time between the end of the challenge and this moment, but still there has not been any sort of official announcement that I can find, despite there being a couple threads (that I know of) asking what the status is. This is not a matter that has arisen in the last day or two, or even a couple weeks; the Challenge ended at the beginning of October - nearly FIVE months ago...

 

Simply as an observation, I find it extraordinarily cheeky for Adams442T and David Elvar to act as your 'Yes men' when they took absolutely no part in the Challenge at all. At what level would they feel the frustration of the participants for them to support your statement? (That was a rhetorical question) I honestly don't know what sort of moral obligation they have to even get involved in this thread, and find it just as insulting as the lack of any authoritative response.

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Simply as an observation, I find it extraordinarily cheeky for Adams442T and David Elvar to act as your 'Yes men' when they took absolutely no part in the Challenge at all. At what level would they feel the frustration of the participants for them to support your statement? (That was a rhetorical question) I honestly don't know what sort of moral obligation they have to even get involved in this thread, and find it just as insulting as the lack of any authoritative response.

 

 

You're right! I didn't take part in the challenge! But does that exclude me from being interested in the result? Does that exclude me from expressing support for the position of either Andy or Mod5? For myself, I find it extraordinarily insulting, not to mention childish, that you feel the need to resort to abuse to make a point. 

 

Had I been part of this challenge, I would no doubt feel a little frustrated at the delay. By the same token, I would try my level best to understand what the issues might be that have led to this delay. You might like to do the same. For information, I have plans to enter the 2013 Challenge. Presumably, this will "qualify" me to express an opinion, should any such delay ever occur again?

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Guest jim s-w

The issues over the update to the forum are completely irrelevent to this topic, Why? Because voting was supposed to be the end of last year. The fact that the update has caused further delays only compounds an existing problem, it is far from the cause of it.

 

I suppose these recent issues are also 'the reason' that MI6 is getting on for 2 months late too? Mod5 is doing his best to provide answers, lets not forget that.

 

Jim

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But does that exclude me from being interested in the result?

Absolutely not! As an entrant I'm delighted that you're taking an interest.

Does that exclude me from expressing support for the position of either Andy or Mod5?

Yes it does if you don't know what 'position' your are supporting - no reasonable excuse was tabled by the response by Mod 5 (no disrespect intended) as the reasons expressed were recent and this is ancient in comparison.

For myself, I find it extraordinarily insulting, not to mention childish, that you feel the need to resort to abuse to make a point.

I was not insulting or childish - I was OFFENDED that you arbitrarily click the 'like' button with no regard to circumstance.

 

As for you taking part in the next challenge, I wish you the best of luck. I don't know if you have advance knowledge of it to be able to make that decision already, but if you do you will not be getting my vote (for what it's worth, and if it ever gets to that stage) as you seem to have an unfair advantage.

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My genuine apologies on this. There was an ongoing problem in trying to get the polling software to work with the new server which necessitated some patching which meant an unacceptable delay from the closing date. Unfortunately other deadlines and time commitments took precedence over the fix, many smaller more urgent things coming through which meant it's difficult to get time to fix bigger things. The issue was resolved just under a month ago but I simply haven't had time to set up the framework for the voting (again several hours work).

 

I apologise to all participants in the challenge for this (there's certainly no reason to have a pop at Mod5 as sometimes I don't bug the mod team with techy niggles (they'd get very bored if I did)).

 

 

Just a thought does that mean there is an implied right of ownership of anything produced for the challenge. By that I mean Warners can choose to feature any of the challenge projects in BRM without the permission of the owner? Maybe one of the Mods or Andy could provide an official line before this thread gets off topic? Jonathan

 

 

 

All intellectual property and posting remains with the modeller, we would not do any such suggested thing.

 

The issue will be addressed and it would be good if I could get the vote set up inside the next week or so.

 

P.S. Tell me about sacrificing family time; I do an awful lot of it.

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  • RMweb Gold

Err...

 

Presumably everybody will be able to vote (when the time comes) with no exclusions.

Wouldn't that make everybody an interested party?

The more the merrier

 

I know everybodies frustrated, but can were keep this a little bit more plesant.

 

Regards,

Kev.

 

 

^

Edit

Andy has jumped in, and saved the day, before I could post this.

(Didn't this forum used to tell you if someone had posted whilst you were typing?)

 

Kev.

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I was not insulting or childish - I was OFFENDED that you arbitrarily click the 'like' button with no regard to circumstance.

 

As for you taking part in the next challenge, I wish you the best of luck. I don't know if you have advance knowledge of it to be able to make that decision already, but if you do you will not be getting my vote (for what it's worth, and if it ever gets to that stage) as you seem to have an unfair advantage.

 

On the first count, you presumably don't count the term "yes-men" as insulting. I did not "arbitrarily" click the 'like' button, I did so as a measured token of support to an answer I considered worthy of it. Not having taken part in the competition does not preclude me from so doing.

 

On the second, I don't know what you're implying. I have no advance knowledge of the competition, I base my intentions on what I've seen of this year's and feel certain I will be able to slot my particular skill set in some project somewhere. I'm sorry you see fit to prejudge my entry, whatever form it will take. For myself and if you decide to enter, I will certainly be happy to offer your work my vote if it merits it.

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Thanks, Andy, for giving a status update. It's reassuring to learn it's not been forgotten, just delayed. Getting some background as to the why of the delay was very welcome as well.

 

However, I must confess to having been somewhat frustrated at having worked hard to meet the deadline and then encountering a deafening silence regarding the voting, especially given that when we talked about the voting at Warley, you said with a cheerful and optimistic smile, that you knew what the problem was and you'd "get it sorted soon"?

 

Am I to assume that, as a railway modeller, I should have really asked whether that would be a finescale "soon" (i.e. time measured in days or weeks) or a coarse scale "soon" (time measured in geological epochs)?

 

Anyway, joshing aside, the foreseen timeline, is that tentative? Best case or worst case scenario?

 

iD

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at Warley, you said with a cheerful and optimistic smile, that you knew what the problem was and you'd "get it sorted soon"?

A career on a helpdesk beckons. ;)

 

I need to get a block of a few hours I can sit down and build the structure and content of the vote; the first 3/5ths of next week is chocced plus a family funeral so it'll be at least a week.

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Andy

Thanks for the updates..Looks like the usual case of 'Is this latest crisis more of a  crisis  than the crisis we are trying to deal with now?'  in any case good employers recognise that family crises should always take precedence!

 

 

Regs

Ian

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Guest jim s-w
  All intellectual property and posting remains with the modeller, we would not do any such suggested thing.

 

Absolutely. Warners couldnt help themselves to anything posted on here even if they wanted too (which as andy says they dont). Theres no photobucket style release of copyright clause in the forums T&C so unless you sign copyright over* or are under the employ of a company (PAYE not freelance) ownership is always with the creator. If you are PAYE then, usually, ownership of anything you do in your working hours belongs to the company.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

* signing over copyright us not the same as allowing a publisher to print your stuff. If a magazine pays to use your picture they do not then own it without a specific agreement.

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