7APT7 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Hi Guys Thanks for you input on the Paints... The Humbrol NEW... Rail Colour ranges The FULL RANGE OF COLOURS ARE:.... RC401 to RC 423, RC = Rail Colour RC401 Dirty Black RC402 Rust RC403 Crimson Lake RC404 Garter Blue RC405 GWR or BR Green RC406 Buffer Beam Red RC407 BR Yellow RC408 Apple Green RC409 Malachite Green RC410 Maunsell Green RC411 Diesel Blue (BR) RC412 BR Coach Roof Grey RC413 Engineers Grey RC414 Executive Dark Grey RC415 Pullman Umber Brown RC416 Pullman Cream RC417 Coach Roof Off-White RC418 EWS Red RC419 EWS Yellow (more Gold’ish) RC420 Orange Lining RC421 Virgin Red RC422 Intercity Grey RC423* Carmine RC423* BR Cream ‘*’ = Error on the Print so possibly RC424 @Shane Your Quote... Colours needed are intercity executive dark grey and executive light grey Would this be RC414 & RC422 or RC412...? APT Possible Colour usages are: RC414 Executive Dark Grey (Window Frames...) RC422 Intercity Grey (Main Body...) or would it be RC412 BR Coach Roof Grey Cheers Jamie Edited February 7, 2013 by 7APT7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz3359 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Hi All Would I be correct in saying that the Yellow Fronts and the Yellow that is above the window in the second class coach is the same Yellow in the Paints required for that part is:- Rail Match equal to the New Humbrol RC (Rail Colours Range ) 202 Warning Yellow is equal to RC407 BR Yellow The Red line on the APT may also be RC421 Virgin Red Hope someone on here can confirm if that is correct The Greys that have been noted, does anyone know what the are equal to in Revel or the standard Humbrol colours and the paint tin no.,...? Thanks. DC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Are those Proper paints or Acrylics? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Are those Proper paints or Acrylics? Hi Peter I have the Humbrol Leaflet... that those number are in, it does seem to say other than they are there New Rail Colour releases, on top of all the other paints that they do... there are just 24 new colours in total and are aimed at the railways liviers, rather than the general ones they do, I bought some up from MZ last week for £1.60 per Potlet or Tinlet as they call it which are 14ml... and the RC Colour Range are ALL in Acrylics ONLY...! Are the Acrylics Paint the better ones to use rather than Mat/Satin/others...etc....? is it Acrylics I need to be looking at... then Also Peter, are you doing the APT window frames yet... or anything else to inprove the look of the APT, yet... When I spoke to you last you said about them being in the pipline...!!! Thanks mate... Jamie Edited February 8, 2013 by 7APT7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Hi Peter Just got the Colour Leaflet out... It'a a Humdrol Colour Chart by Hornby the Paints it as listed are as follows... KEY (Blue DOT) Enamel Paints (Pink DOT) Acrylic Paints (Yellow DOT) Spray Paints * 50ml (No.2) Tinlets, Just the odd Paint here and there... Matt Colours 83 Different Colours (DOTS = Blue & Blue Yellow on some) Satin Colours 23 Different Colours (DOTS = Blue & Blue Yellow on some) Gloss Colours 25 Different Colours (DOTS = Blue & Blue Yellow on some) Rail Colours 24 Different Colours (DOT = Pink, Only) [which are Acrylic Paints] Matallic Colours 14 Different Colours (Mixture of all 3 DOTs) Metalcote Colours 4 Different Colours (DOTS = Blue & Blue Yellow on some) Clear Colours 3 Different Colours (DOT = Blue, Only) Enamal Colours 3 Different Colours (DOT = Yellow, Only) Next to each Colour on the Chart it can show Blue Pink Yellow or Astrix (50ml) Some Colours only have Blue some have Blue and Pink some just Pink and some have Blue Pink & Yellow Now I have had a good look all the Rail Colours (RC###) on the Chart the RC Colours all have Pink DOT Acrylic Paints next to all 24 Colours available in the RC Range Hope that Helps Jamie Edited February 9, 2013 by 7APT7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Thanks Jamie I have a few things in the pipeline for the APT no deadline for them, I'm a bit busy with other projects at the moment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbasher Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Hi All, Progress through February amounted to less than nothing I did a little more tonight, just to finish up the steps mentioned above really. So: 1. The bracing in the interior of the chassis around the joints was finished. Full strength restored! 2. The ends of the chassis were carefully filed down so they were exactly the right length - less than 0.5mm was removed in all instances and I took care not to cut into the plastic strip. 3. The 2mm x 2mm plastic strip were trimmed to length (basically the length of the chassis plus about 2/3rd of a mm). 4. The plastic strip (again 2mm x 2mm) across the end was added, sitting proud of the end of the chassis by just under 1mm so it sits flush with the coach ends. So now I have 4 coach shells looking much like the below. Next steps are to glued the coach ends to the uppper body-shells and add similar bits of plastic strip for all the other trailer vehicles (I may strip all paint off actually first as removing the paint without hacking into the plastic underneath is a pain). Putting the modified coach side by side with an unmodified one just to compare the amount of daylight above the bogies does make the Hornby original look anaemic. Then I'll need to laboriously file all the plastic strip to match the coaches' body profile.... Thanks, PlasticBasher Edited March 3, 2013 by plasticbasher 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbasher Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) A little more progress tonight. I took the driving trailers and generator coaches (which I won't be chopping up) apart and glued the ends on to the bodyshells exactly as per the coaches I've created above. Looking forward to seeing the visual impact of not having a chunk of dark plastic at the corridor ends of each coach! Having spent some time looking at photos of the corridor ends of the real thing, I reckon the Hornby corridor connectors are about 2mm too shallow, possibly to match the extra clearance above each bogie on the models. 2mm is not much, but passengers would be bent over double when walking down the train - now I have seen that I have to change it..!!! I have a few spare corridor connectors and reckon I can probably lengthen all the corridor connectors I need by 2mm at the bottom with some tedious cutting and shutting using my stash of spares. I then thought that, before I remove the bogies (which are a nightmare to remove without causing damage - so I only plan to do this once), I would see the how much of an improvement the 2mm plastic strips I have been adding above the bogies to reduce the excessive daylight have actually made. Note these have not been filed to profile...just poly-cemented on. There are two photo's below; the first is on a piece of straight track and the second on a couple of lengths of Radius 1 Bachman EZ track - Hornby specified APT's were for use on a minimum of their 2nd radius curves). On the curved track (the photo's a bit grainy, as I had to compress the image a lot), you can see the coach with the plastic strips fouls the representation of (??) air suspension bellows on the bogie; but not massively - it looks worse in the photo as I then realised the wheels I fitted to this coach are too big and this has probably exacerbated the issue. The wheels do not foul - even though they are too big!! Overall I'm happy with this so far. plasticbasher Edited March 11, 2013 by plasticbasher 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi plasticbasher Thanks for the inspiration and the step by step photos, those strips make all the difference and look more realistic and make it look like the bogies are now fully attached or apart of the main coach body... Was that was a good improvement using the 2mm plastic strips, is that plastic strip by wills and is it 2mm square....? Thanks for sharing the information dude... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbasher Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Hi Jamie - not sure who makes it, but yes it is 2mm square. I'm really pleased with the visual difference... However, I stress I haven't seen if these strips will cause derailments on 2nd radius curves (I have none to hand, but am confident it isn't too likely). Having wheels of the right size with smaller flanges (I can see the huge 1980's Hornby wheel flanges would probably foul) and filing the strips to the profile of the body sides will further reduce the chances of them catching on the bogies. Just finished the major surgery on the 'proposed-but-never-built' DVT....might graft a spare cab on to the ropiest of my power cars too..! If I'm sensible, I'll strip all the paint off all of my bodies and chassis's first though... Edited March 12, 2013 by plasticbasher 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi plasticbasher Have you changed all the original wheels then and if so... to what size... 12mm etc....? QUOTE Just finished the major surgery on the 'proposed-but-never-built' DVT....might graft a spare cab on to the ropiest of my power cars too..! I would be interested in you photo progress on that...? Is this the one with no windows...? and if so are you using the middle power car and the cab to achieve this...? and what about the wheel formation of that... (twin bogies at each end or twin at the Cab end and half joining bogie at the back of the DVT end)... very interested in the progress you make on this... Do you happen to know which humbrol paint no.### to use or any other brand for that matter you will use to repaint the APT in the dark grey and the light grey...etc Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm81 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I've been inspired by this topic to take a couple of 142 bodyshells and chop them into a centre car! I think all I need is a razor saw, mitre box, some liquid poly and some bravado to get cutting? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbasher Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Have you changed all the original wheels then and if so... to what size... 12mm etc... The Hornby originals are 13mm and that is the size I'll be replacing them with; the larger wheels were a (temporary) error by me. I've got one of these now http://www.alangibso...m/RTR Drill.pdf and plan to fit brass bearings throughout as the bogies are a bit tired and don't roll all that freely. Regarding your questions about: 1. The proposed DVT. It is quite simply the photo posted earlier in this thread (in due course with plain plasticard in-fills for the windows and any doors scribed on). No photo's yet as I've posted a pic of mock-up somewhere above and aside from gluing bits together there's nothing different yet. 2. The proposed power car with cab will be precisely that (check out some of the links on this thread and you'll find some mocked up images and someone else's model of the same thing). This may have to wait as I'm already a bit bored of the repetitive nature of this stage of the project and need to crack on with the stuff that needs to be done before it becomes a chore..! Incidentally, I will also be making a representation of the twin bogie test coach, which appears in the thread I reference in my first post on this thread. I have have enough left-over pieces for this and another DVT at the moment..!! Regarding your queries about paints - well I believe no one does the exact shades anyway, but I've also seen posts saying the original Hornby greys are a mile off (and my models have all faded by differing amounts anyway so it's utterly pointles trying to match the Hornby shades). I plan to take the advice of Shane re. the greys and use: Dark Grey - RC414 Executive Dark Grey Pale Grey - RC422 Intercity Grey Yellow - RC407 BR Yellow Red - RC406 Buffer Beam Red I guess...or the "Virgin" one (no idea what that looks like TBH but I saw it suggested above) White lines - just some plain white paint of some description!! Whether I buy Humbrol or another brand is down to what's available and price at the time... plasticbasher Edited March 13, 2013 by plasticbasher 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi plasticbasher Great writ up there mate, same goes for the paints... as long as its close... When you talk about the DVT Wheels are you refering to the class 91 with the Class 82 DVT... wheels from those...? Look forward to seeing your progress mate Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The Hornby originals are 13mm and that is the size I'll be replacing them with; the larger wheels were a (temporary) error by me. I've got one of these now http://www.alangibso...m/RTR Drill.pdf and plan to fit brass bearings throughout as the bogies are a bit tired and don't roll all that freely. Plasticbasher, nice to see that you will be changing the rubbish Hornby wheels. If you want an accurate model, then why not measure the prototype's wheels and work out the size that you need? Here's a photo I took last year showing that the prototype wheels are about 2ft 2in in diameter (taking into account Mike's dodgy tape measure positioning!). That scales out to 8.7mm which is far smaller than Hornby's 13mm wheels! Guy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Highly interesting training notes here 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbasher Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Hi Jamie - I think you've misread my post regarding the DVT, so I'll edit it now for clarity. Wow Guy, those wheel are small..! I'd never clocked that. I'm not quite sure what I'll do in that respect; I imagine changing the wheel size that much may be harder than it seems. I'll have a ponder. Thanks Horsetan; that was genuinely interesting. plasticbasher 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just caught up with Mike this evening. We think that the tape measure is actually at rail height but that the perspective of the photo is distorting things. This gives 14inch radius, 28 inch diameter and in 4mm scale this equates to a 9.33mm diameter wheel. So maybe a 9.0mm diameter disk wheel would be about right (e.g. Romford?). The Hornby 13mm wheels in 4mm scale turn out to be equivalent to 39 inch wheels at 1:1. Note that Mike is holding the tape measure at 39inches and this is almost the distance from the rail head to the body of the vehicle! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I don't know if anyone makes wheels that small in 4mm scale. The nearest I can think of is the 10.5mm (2'7") Lowmac disc wheel...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I put a pair of 10mm wheels into a trailer bogie a fee weeks back and it looked a bit odd. That may be because we're used to seeing the larger wheels. It is possible that the bogie may be slightly over scale but that's just a guess. May have time to have a look at mine tomorrow and see how it looks under a vehicle. I'll measure the wheels under the power car and Lab 4 at Coventry either tomorrow or Friday and see what these come out at. Cheers Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You could probably find some American H0 wheels near that size, though axle length might be a problem. 9.333mm is the equivalent of 32" in H0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 This drawing from Wikimedia Commons (freely distributable) also shows very small wheels so I think the large wheels on the Hornby model are just what we are used to seeing... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 It might be an idea to start with the Lowmac disc wheels first to see how they perform.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) It is possible that the bogie may be slightly over scale but that's just a guess. Cheers Shane The B.R. EMU diagram book on the Barrowmore site states a wheelbase of 2650mm for the leading bogie on the driving trailer and the trailing bogie on the brake trailer. The intermediate bogies have a wheelbase of 3500mm. The Hornby bogies are 34.7mm and 47.0mm approx which scale out to 2637mm and 3572mm. This makes the intermediate bogies about 1mm too long as bought. Edited March 14, 2013 by Flood 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted March 14, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2013 Gibson do 9mm disc wheels (we use them in our ruston 48DS kit) but they are a little difficult to find as they were originally produced only for 3mm with1/16th axles. They are now available in 00/EM and P4 with normal 2mm axles. Michael Edge Judith Edge kits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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