Bachmann 36-557 21-pin Decoder

[RFS]

I've just bought one of these to install in a Bachmann 2-EPB. However, I've found that setting CV5 and CV6 (max speed) has no effect: the values are set in the CVs but performance is unchanged - ie still goes at 115 mph even though CV5 has been reduced from 255 to 25! I read back the CVs on the programming track and they have been correctly set, but seem to be being ignored.

 

There are two Soundtraxx decoders - MC1 and MC2. In the documentation for MC1, CV5 and CV6 are not mentioned as configurable CVs, but they are in the MC2. The documentation on the Bachmann web-site clearly refers to this being the MC2, and the sheet inside the decoder package says that the manufacturer version (CV 7) is 96, which is correct for the MC2. The Bachmann documentation also explains how to configure CVs 2, 5 and 6. But when I display CV 7 on the decoder I have bought, it gives it as 81 and the documentation for the MC1 says it's 80 (perhaps 81 means the 21-pin version?).

 

So it seems to me Bachmann are marketing this as the higher-function MC2 but shipping the lower-function MC1.

 

I've raised the issue via the Customer Service and await their reply.  But if it is indeed an MC1, it's going back for a refund.

 

Anyone else bought one of these, in which case what does CV 7 display on yours?

 

[Oldddudders]

Have you seen this thread? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65833-re-using-a-Bachmann-21-pin-decoder-ex-blue-pullman-is-it-possible/

[RFS]

Yes - I read that thread but thought a separate topic was required, as Bachmann only provided the documentation on their website recently.  The decoder I have is indeed marked MC1xxxxxxx despite Bachmann's documentation saying that it's the MC2 - both on their website and in the leaflet in the box.  Waiting to hear what they have to say.

[RFS]

Bachmann have admitted that it's their mistake in response to my query -

"Unfortunately there has been a confusion with the paperwork of this decoder: our item 36-557 is indeed a SoundTraxx MC1 with 21pin connector. I do apologise for this error, however if this decoder is not to your requirements then the retailer from whom you bought will be able to exchange for another item for you."

The decoder is a bit too basic for my liking - at least with the now-superceded 36-554 decoder you could set CV 5 max speed, but you can't on this one. So it'll be going back for a refund.
 

[Durranhill]

Bachmann have admitted that it's their mistake in response to my query -

 

"Unfortunately there has been a confusion with the paperwork of this decoder: our item 36-557 is indeed a SoundTraxx MC1 with 21pin connector. I do apologise for this error, however if this decoder is not to your requirements then the retailer from whom you bought will be able to exchange for another item for you."

 

The decoder is a bit too basic for my liking - at least with the now-superceded 36-554 decoder you could set CV 5 max speed, but you can't on this one. So it'll be going back for a refund.

 

 

I've just had a similar response from Bachmann for the 4 decoders I bought with an " I'm sorry if these do not meet your requirements line " & please return them to the retailer for an exchange with another product but as I bought them after reading the specs on their website & Bachmann do not do a replacement MC2 version what do I do.

 

It's not the retailer who is at fault but Bachmann & as I bought them at a show 50 miles from were I live & the retailer is 70 miles away it's going to cost me more money to send them back , a SORRY from Bachmann just does not cut it as far as I'm concerned .

Edited February 19, 2013 by Durranhill

[skin_2]

Bachmann have now replaced the documentation with that for the MC-1 decoder so at least we know where we are now. I too spent a fruitless amount of time trying to program CV5 and CV6 into the Blue Pullman. The annoying thing is that you can program and read back values for CV5 and CV6 but they have no effect. I guess it's get the best out of the speed tables or change the decoder. The former 36-554 21 pin decoder supported CV5 but not CV6, it also didn't appear to support double heading.

 

Keith

[Oldddudders]

The former 36-554 21 pin decoder supported CV5 but not CV6, it also didn't appear to support double heading.

 

I assume by double-heading you mean Advanced Consisting, aka EPF Consisting, using CV19, which is not mentioned on the data sheet. Universal Consisting is the only method I have ever used, and that works for every decoder ever made. No doubt different DCC systems achieve this in different ways, but my Digitrax system makes it very easy to add or remove locos. Does your command station support Universal Consisting?

[Adrian Wintle]

I assume by double-heading you mean Advanced Consisting, aka EPF Consisting, using CV19, which is not mentioned on the data sheet. Universal Consisting is the only method I have ever used, and that works for every decoder ever made. No doubt different DCC systems achieve this in different ways, but my Digitrax system makes it very easy to add or remove locos. Does your command station support Universal Consisting?

 

Most DCC systems will support universal consisting in some way, but that is handled within the controller - the decoder sees the same commands it would if it was not in a consist, so it doesn't need any special features. If you move the consist to another layout you have to set it up again on the new controller.

 

Advanced consisting sets up the decoder so that it responds to a different address (the consist address in CV19), so the consists are portable between systems.This is better for fixed consists where you aren't going to be creating/splitting them often (although my Lenz system makes creating/splitting Advanced consists very easy).

 

Adrian

[skin_2]

I assume by double-heading you mean Advanced Consisting, aka EPF Consisting, using CV19, which is not mentioned on the data sheet. Universal Consisting is the only method I have ever used, and that works for every decoder ever made. No doubt different DCC systems achieve this in different ways, but my Digitrax system makes it very easy to add or remove locos. Does your command station support Universal Consisting?

Sorry, yes, I did mean advanced consisting. As Adrian says, I think most controllers support Universal/Old Style consisting - they just send the same commands to all the decoder addresses in the consist so of course the decoders don't have to support CV19. There is a slight delay in the response of locos other than the lead loco although it's not very noticeable.unless the command fails because of dirty track or something. I just mentioned it as the 36-557 does support CV19. I guess you can get better results by using 28 speed tables rather than just CV2 CV5 and CV6. I found that I got quite good results from the Blue Pullman using a slightly exponential speed table and a top voltage of 125 but that may be a bit slow. I just set both decoders to the same address, but you could always run it as a consist I suppose and so have separate control of the functions in either half of the train. Alternatively you could always program each of the decoders separately with the same address so that you could, say, control the cab lights independently or even directionally.- I guess there are loads of possibilities!

 

Keith

[neal]

A number of threads make reference to problems programming this decoder with the Hornby Elite.

 

There is a workaround, but it is a little odd. This has worked for me on the BP's and other 557s I have fitted, including to the 128 and Dapol Western. This allows two digit addresses to be used.

 

Being wary of any feedback to other locos, I disconnect the main track output from the controller when programming.

 

Not being able to program CV's in direct mode, I connect my programming track to the main track feed. In operate mode, programming loco 3 it is possible to program the decoder. For example in the Western, CV 3 and 4 were set to 40, CV 25 to 11 , and CV 29 to 22. In this mode you can't read back the decoder to verify the changes - and of course the address CV cannot be changed.

 

(Programming in paged or reg mode just sees the loco run away, so avoid this option)

 

Strangely, once this is done, the decoder then appears to be readable and programmable in Direct mode, so reconnecting the programming track to the programming output, a two digit address can be set. It is also worthwhile checking all the CV 's changes in operate mode.

 

It's a bit of a faff, but worked for me and saved me breaking out the old Lenz Compact to do the job. Once changed, the decoders seem stable, and none have returned to defaults as has been the problem with other chips working with the Elite.

 

One other thing, if CV's 3 and 4 are set above 40, CV 5 (this seems to make a difference for me) is set low (say 60) and the speed curve CV 25 is set too high, you may find that the train will not actually start! Best to work from default settings and gradually change to achieve the reasonable slow speed and pick up that this decoder can offer.

 

Hope this helps some fellow Elite users.

 

 

N

Edited March 30, 2013 by neal

[Ron Solly]

During a meeting yesterday at my place , one of my newly chipped Class 37s with 36-557 crept forward until it contacted buffers then was slowly cleaning its wheels or wearing out track!!

I had noticed it earlier when I selected the  track which fed power to it as the loco lights came on by themselves - I thought I had left the controller cracked open a bit.
So I got into CV29 & stopped the DC function, but No, it still wants to light up & move forward when layout power is restored.
I gave up at that stage so I decided to do a reset later.



Well, I did the reset this morning  & under address 3, it behaved itself, even the lights did not come on by themselves so I then reset the address back to what I was using being 756 & the problems came back so I changed the number to 758 & all is OK - nothing unexpected  happened when layout power is switched off & on .

I now have evidence in front of me that I had only seen once before on a mates' loco  that would not accept or read 666 on a Lenz system &have  read about in that some decoders don't like specific numbers.
     

[Ron Solly]

I asked Bachmann this

 

Recently purchased Decoder 36-557 21 pin/ 4 functions and the leaflet instruction has that to obtain full decoder User's Guide, available via download. But I cannot find this decoders sheet. What is listed on the site is 36-557 Loksound decoder and upon opening that file up, it is for 36-558 Soundtraxx MC1 decoder.

 

 

The answer

 

The 36-558 and 36-557 are the same decoder but with a different interface

 

 

Certainly missing CV5 & 6 which other Bachmann decoders do have.

 

In time I will be changing to TCS or DCCconcepts decoders.

[Sunnysa]

 

 

In time I will be changing to TCS or DCCconcepts decoders.

 

 Wise move Ron.

 

 Cheers

 

  Ian

[melmerby]

In time I will be changing to TCS or DCCconcepts decoders.

Or even better, try Lenz.

I have found them to be far superior to TCS and nowadays no more expensive.

 

Keith

Edited April 16, 2013 by melmerby

[Sunnysa]

Or even better, try Lenz.

I have found them to be far superior to TCS and nowadays no more expensive.

 

Keith

 

In what way are they superior?

 

 Not trying to start anything just asking the question.

 

 Cheers

 

  Ian

Edited April 17, 2013 by Sunnysa

[SRman]

I agree that Lenz are superior in many ways but they are still rather more expensive than TCS, at least here in Australia. TCS decoders are good but Lenz ones give much better and smoother control and a more progressive inertia/momentum control with CVs 3 & 4.

 

At least, that has been my experience so far.

 

I do think that TCS seem to be the best value for money decoders though. They are fully featured yet are only a little more expensive than the cut-down 'cheapie' decoders.

[GoingUnderground]

Do TCS decoders have Railcom?

[Nigelcliffe]

Do TCS decoders have Railcom?

 

Yes, RailCom is present on more recent versions of TCS decoders.  

See TCS website where it usually says words to the effect of includes RailCom licensed from Lenz.  

 

I've no experience of using them, so can't comment on which RailCom features are, or are not, implemented, how well they work with the different quality of RailCom cut-outs from different command stations, etc..

 

- Nigel

Edited April 17, 2013 by Nigelcliffe

[melmerby]

In what way are they superior?

 

 Not trying to start anything just asking the question.

 

 Cheers

 

  Ian

They certainly have superior speed control. See previous topic on this subject. (and are at least as well specified, function wise.)

I did some extensive testing (after having most of my fleet with TCS decoders and finding performance problems) and found TCS decoders do not provide a consistent increase in speed for each decoder setting and I also found that the voltage supplied to the decoder can be different for each step when increasing compared to when decreasing speed. e.g at setting 14 of 28 it might be 6v when increasing and 7v when decreasing i.e. it exhibits hysteresis. N.B. the figures given are just an example, each decoder will be different, depending how it is set up

If you are considering computer control, either now in the future IMHO you should stay clear of TCS decoders because you will have problems.

 

N.B. TCS are not alone with these problems, several of the budget decoders seem to have some of the same problems

 

The Lenz Standard + is typically about £16 in the UK, as cheap as any TCS decoder and the Silver Direct+ & Silver 21+ are only a fewpounds more than the TCS equivalents.

 

Keith

Edited April 17, 2013 by melmerby

[Oldddudders]

They certainly have superior speed control. See previous topic on this subject. (and are at least as well specified, function wise.)

I did some extensive testing and IMHO TCS decoders are not worth the price charged as they do not provide a consistent increase in speed for each decoder setting and I also found that the voltage supplied to the decoder can be different for each step when increasing compared to when decreasing speed. e.g at setting 14 of 28 it might be 6v when increasing and 7v when decreasing i.e. it exhibits hysteresis. N.B. the figures given are just an example, each decoder will be different, depending how it is set up.

 

If I am driving my train, I have a throttle in my hand. If I want the train to go a bit faster, I increase speed on the throttle, decrease to go more slowly. I have absolutely no idea how the decoder responds to my throttle setting, except by watching the loco, just as the driver watches his speedo. If the responses are less than truly linear, or not matched between acceleration and deceleration, I would have no idea. Why would I differentiate among decoders on the basis of qualities and facilities I do not use?

[roundhouse]

I have used the Bachmann 21 pin decoders. They wouldnt work in my Dapol 22 but the same decoder works fine in the EMU it has been fitted in as do all the other Bachmann 21 pin ones I have used. I think that this was due to the 22 requiring a 4 function decoder but a lot of UK stock I have only needs the 2 functions.

 

ian

[melmerby]

If I am driving my train, I have a throttle in my hand. If I want the train to go a bit faster, I increase speed on the throttle, decrease to go more slowly. I have absolutely no idea how the decoder responds to my throttle setting, except by watching the loco, just as the driver watches his speedo. If the responses are less than truly linear, or not matched between acceleration and deceleration, I would have no idea. Why would I differentiate among decoders on the basis of qualities and facilities I do not use?

So you don't mind if you increase the speed setting and it continues at the same speed?

 

Keith

[Oldddudders]

So you don't mind if you increase the speed setting and it continues at the same speed?

 

Keith

I do as the driver does - turn the handle until it does what I want! How many notches does a real loco have - Southern EMUs had 7, earlier US diesels had 8, as for steam, well. I appreciate that there is a cadre of DCC enthusiasts who enjoy automation, and for that precision is a necessity, no doubt. For the rest of us, basic decoders do most of what we want. While I make use of multiple functions on my US HO and On30 sound-equipped locos, my UK OO ones are silent, mainly steam and need no functions whatever. A basic 128-step decoder, no functions, maybe back-EMF, would be adequate for some of us. My Bachmann 557s do what I want, but are a bit of an overkill in my C Class, with no likelihood of any function.

[melmerby]

I do as the driver does - turn the handle until it does what I want! How many notches does a real loco have - Southern EMUs had 7, earlier US diesels had 8, as for steam, well. I appreciate that there is a cadre of DCC enthusiasts who enjoy automation, and for that precision is a necessity, no doubt. For the rest of us, basic decoders do most of what we want. While I make use of multiple functions on my US HO and On30 sound-equipped locos, my UK OO ones are silent, mainly steam and need no functions whatever. A basic 128-step decoder, no functions, maybe back-EMF, would be adequate for some of us. My Bachmann 557s do what I want, but are a bit of an overkill in my C Class, with no likelihood of any function.

Hi Ian

If I was driving and I stepped up a notch to get more amps and nothing happened there would be a fault report asap!

 

I did actually say in my post (#19) "If you are considering computer control, either now in the future IMHO you should stay clear of TCS decoders because you will have problems"

 

What I was trying to point out is that for about the same money you can get a decoder without undesirable quirks, so why buy one with them.

I learnt the hard (costly!) way by buying lots of TCS decoders, even after I had decided to go for automation, but before the problems started to raise their head.

Had I have realised earlier I would have saved myself a fair bit of cash.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited April 17, 2013 by melmerby

[Ron Solly]

While waiting for Ian (oldudders) to respond to this ( which now appears to have disappeared)

 

 

250BOB has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Bachmann 36-557 21-pin Decoder".

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------------ QUOTE ----------
Oldddudders:
I do as the driver does - turn the handle until it does what I want! How many notches does a real loco have - Southern EMUs had 7, earlier US diesels had 8, as for steam, well. I appreciate that there is a cadre of DCC enthusiasts who enjoy automation, and for that precision is a necessity, no doubt. For the rest of us, basic decoders do most of what we want. While I make use of multiple functions on my US HO and On30 sound-equipped locos, my UK OO ones are silent, mainly steam and need no functions whatever. A basic 128-step decoder, no functions, maybe back-EMF, would be adequate for some of us. My Bachmann 557s do what I want, but are a bit of an overkill in my C Class, with no likelihood of any function.
-----------------------------


With the greatest of respect, Why do you bother with DCC.??
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I too have similar views to Ian and I find DCC is perfect for multiple operators on my layout with my main station normally requiring two people to work it whilst a 3rd train can be passing through.

One layout I work on regularly can have 4 trains moving within the one station, granted it is nearly 24 feet long.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Ron Solly