Bachmann 36-557 21-pin Decoder

[Sunnysa]

I appreciate  what  Keith is saying about TCS etc, decoders and computer control but  I have no intension to automate my layout via RR&Co, or what ever, now or in the future. There are those that like automation and fair enough.

 

I like to drive my trains as do my monthly op session operators.

 

 I have been using TCS chips for yrs and now have swapped to DCCconcepts chips.

 

 They both do what I want and with a little bit of CV adjustment perform as well as any decoder I have used being, most of the major brands.

 

 I also use Loksound decoders which have slow running and throttle control as good as any and my TCS & DCCconcepts chips match them..

 

 There are those that don't want to adjust CVs and there are those of us that enjoy doing it.

 

To some I am probably nuts but I enjoy doing full 28 step speed curves on all my locos which in conjunction with one or two other CV tweaks my TCS/DCCconcepts chips accellerate/deccellerate very well.

 

 Slow speed is very good too. EG 2 minutes to travel 1inch/25mm without any jerking etc.

 

 Cheers

 

  Iansa

[Oldddudders]

In response to a question that has apparently been removed, I have used DCC since 1997. It provides all the operational flexibility that I need and enables me to get on and run trains, perhaps more prototypically than I could with DC. DCC also does a very great number of things that I don't need, and this thread demonstrates that we each make a distinct use of it, indicating just how versatile DCC is.

[96701]

Time to revive this thread. Strange things afoot with a Bachmann 36-557 21 pin decoder in a Bachmann Class 20. It's a bit of a shaggy dog story so please bear with me. I recently obtained 3 new trains to play with, 2 off ebay, 1 off Realtrack, these being: -

1. Bachmann Class 20 number 20192 fitted with the 36-557 21 pin decoder
2. Heljan Hymek D7044 fitted with a 36-553 8 pin decoder
3. Realtrack class 144 fitted with a Digitrax DN135PS decoder

all running off a MERG CBUS system what my son built for me and has behaved faultlessly thus far.

 

First thing to fit was the Realtrack class 144, naturally I programmed it to 44.

Second thing to fit was the class 20, but failed to programme it from 3 to 92

Third thing to fit was the 36-553 into the Hymek and programmed it to 44. You've already spotted the problem, haven't you? I reprogrammed the class 144 to 30 because it's the last 2 digits of one of the cars.

 

I have a class 37 fitted with a Bachmann 21 pin decoder that wass set to 54 with a Digitrax system, so I tried to reprogramme that. No joy. Anyway, not being a worrying type, I started playing trains and was running the 144 which came to a sudden stop. The natural thing to do is to keep the power on and give the train a push, but before I got near it, I heard a clunk as the Class 20 hit some buffers.

 

Miraculously the Class 20 is now responding to address 30 and the 144 had reverted to 44. That last bit took a bit of working out; it only became evident when I moved the Hymek and the 144 set off as well.

 

So now I've got a class 144 pacer that responds to address 92, a class 20 that responds to address 30 and a Hymek that responds to 44.

 

I can programme any decoder to any address I like except the Bachmann 21 pin decoders. Wierd or what? 

 

Forgot to mention that I intend to try Neal's workaround that he kindly put in post #10.

 

It's a good job they're only toys isn't it?

Edited October 31, 2013 by 96701

[JulianHicks]

Bachmann have admitted that it's their mistake in response to my query -

 

"Unfortunately there has been a confusion with the paperwork of this decoder: our item 36-557 is indeed a SoundTraxx MC1 with 21pin connector. I do apologise for this error, however if this decoder is not to your requirements then the retailer from whom you bought will be able to exchange for another item for you."

 

The decoder is a bit too basic for my liking - at least with the now-superceded 36-554 decoder you could set CV 5 max speed, but you can't on this one. So it'll be going back for a refund.

 

 

My comments are probably too late for most but they may help anyone who searches for this decoder part number and finds this forum entry [it is still on sale].  Apologies if this replicates info. elsewhere in these forums.

 

As noted by various parties and confirmed to me by Soundtraxx support, the decoder is an MC-1 in a 21pin package.  Accordingly the 'Soundtraxx badged' MC-1 technical guide applies in full to this product.

 

With respect to the comment about 'too basic' quoted above, I think Soundtraxx 'dropped the ball' on this aspect [that is the 'basic speed table' in CV6/5] by not including it.  The decoder is quite comprehensive in respect of speed tables since it supports 14 predefined ones plus the ability to 'code your own' in the standard speed table defined by CV64-94.

 

Accordingly you can achieve a Vhigh 'equivalence'in the following fashion:

 

1) Set CV29 to select 'Speed table enable' by setting the 'decimal 16 bit'.  That is, if it's 2 [no DC convert], set it to 18.

2) Set CV25 to 2 to indicate a predefined 'linear' speed table.  Obviously you can use a different number to select pre-defined 'curves' or a user table, but linear keeps it simple and akin to using CV6/5. 

3) For forward motion, set CV66 to a number n between 2 & 127, where n/128 gives the speed reduction ratio.  For example, using 64 will halve the speed curve's maxpoint [as if Vhigh was set to 128].

4) For reverse motion, set CV95 to a number n between 2 & 127, where n/128 gives the speed reduction ratio.  For example, using 64 will halve the speed curve's maxpoint [as if Vhigh was set to 128].

 

Julian

Edited November 5, 2014 by JulianHicks

[Dominion]

My comments are probably too late for most but they may help anyone who searches for this decoder part number and finds this forum entry [it is still on sale].  Apologies if this replicates info. elsewhere in these forums.

 

As noted by various parties and confirmed to me by Soundtraxx support, the decoder is an MC-1 in a 21pin package.  Accordingly the 'Soundtraxx badged' MC-1 technical guide applies in full to this product.

 

With respect to the comment about 'too basic' quoted above, I think Soundtraxx 'dropped the ball' on this aspect [that is the 'basic speed table' in CV6/5] by not including it.  The decoder is quite comprehensive in respect of speed tables since it supports 14 predefined ones plus the ability to 'code your own' in the standard speed table defined by CV64-94.

 

Accordingly you can achieve a Vhigh 'equivalence'in the following fashion:

 

1) Set CV29 to select 'Speed table enable' by setting the 'decimal 16 bit'.  That is, if it's 2 [no DC convert], set it to 18.

2) Set CV25 to 2 to indicate a predefined 'linear' speed table.  Obviously you can use a different number to select pre-defined 'curves' or a user table, but linear keeps it simple and akin to using CV6/5. 

3) For forward motion, set CV66 to a number n between 2 & 127, where n/128 gives the speed reduction ratio.  For example, using 64 will halve the speed curve's maxpoint [as if Vhigh was set to 128].

4) For reverse motion, set CV95 to a number n between 2 & 127, where n/128 gives the speed reduction ratio.  For example, using 64 will halve the speed curve's maxpoint [as if Vhigh was set to 128].

 

Julian

 

Thanks Julian,

I am still having a great deal of difficulty getting smooth running from a 36-557 in a Bachmann D11.

I have tried speed tables CV25 set for 2,10, and 11 int he preset speed curves.

I have turned down the forward and backward trim on 66 and 95

I have tried higher and lower values in BEMF on 209 and 210.

The factory reset values are quiet different from what the soundtrax MC1 manual says for those 2 incidentally.

The best running I get is with low values of CV10 which means the BEMF turns off at a low speed step. But  the portion BEMF is on at low speed is still lumpy.

And regardless of how high I set CVs2 and 3 for momentum changing direction on the run creates quite steep deceleration and acceleration, unlike on my otehr locos and chips.

I would love to know what combinations people are having success with.

Tom

[Dominion]

Has anyone had any more success with smooth running from this chip ? 

[Podhunter]

On 13-Sep-17, Bachmann announced an update to the 36-557 decoder.

The new version has some additional features (e.g. RailCom), is packaged differently to the old one, and has a different colour circuit board (blue vs. green).

Unfortunately the part number is the same.  If you can't see what you're buying, you won't know until it arrives whether you've purchased a new version or an old one.

[RFS]

See earlier post - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126224-new-version-of-36-557-decoder/

[Ron Ron Ron]

This "new version" is actually a completely different decoder, supplied by another decoder manufacturer, ESU.

 

The old 36-557 was a Soundtraxx MC1/MC2 hybrid and the new 36-557 is an ESU Standard (model no. 53614)

Looks like it's going to be a fun time trying to find the correct manuals online, or getting the correct advise if something goes wrong or help is needed.

 

Using the old product code for a completely different product strikes me as totally bizarre. 

More bizarre by the fact that the Bachman branded 8-pin (with harness) version of the same ESU Standard (model no. 53611), was given Bachmann product code 36-566.

Note that the adjacent number 36-565 hasn't been allocated yet. 

 

With Bachmann going against the flow (and the NMRA and MOROP standards) by fitting Next18 sockets in H0 & 00 models that could easily accept the current standard PluX sockets, plus continuing to release new model designs bearing obsolete 8-pin and 21-pin sockets; you have to wonder what's going on and whether they know what's going on???

 

 

 

 

.

 

.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[Nigelcliffe]

This "new version" is actually a completely different decoder, supplied by another decoder manufacturer, ESU.

 

The old 36-557 was a Soundtraxx MC1/MC2 hybrid and the new 36-557 is an ESU Standard (model no. 53614)

Looks like it's going to be a fun time trying to find the correct manuals online, or getting the correct advise if something goes wrong or help is needed.

 

Using the old product code for a completely different product strikes me as totally bizarre. ............

 

................ you have to wonder what's going on and whether they know what's going on???

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed.   I think the advice from forums might be "ring Bachmann" and hand out the MD's private phone number ? 

 

 

- Nigel

[Ron Ron Ron]

Re: 36-557

Has anyone been using this completely different model of the 36-577 ?

How have you found the performance of this rebadged ESU Standard?

 

 

 

.

[paftrain]

I just have to resurrect this topic as I have today fitted a ‘new’ Bachmann 36-557 decoder to a Bachmann SR Atlantic purchased last week and it jerks all over the place. It is unfortunate because I bought a few of these decoders months ago with a view to fitting them to new locos as I bought them.

Having read all the posts I can find on this decoder, others users appear to have the same problem but I can’t find anybody coming up with a solution. Help please!

[Butler Henderson]

9 hours ago, paftrain said:

I just have to resurrect this topic as I have today fitted a ‘new’ Bachmann 36-557 decoder to a Bachmann SR Atlantic purchased last week and it jerks all over the place. It is unfortunate because I bought a few of these decoders months ago with a view to fitting them to new locos as I bought them.

Having read all the posts I can find on this decoder, others users appear to have the same problem but I can’t find anybody coming up with a solution. Help please!

Have you removed the factory fitted capacitors as they are typical cause of jerky running when a decoder is fitted?

[Ron Ron Ron]

11 hours ago, paftrain said:

...... I have today fitted a ‘new’ Bachmann 36-557 decoder to a Bachmann SR Atlantic.......

 

By "new", do you mean a blue coloured decoder, as opposed to the old green example?

 

 

.

[paftrain]

52 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

By "new", do you mean a blue coloured decoder, as opposed to the old green example?

 

 

.

Yes.

[paftrain]

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Have you removed the factory fitted capacitors as they are typical cause of jerky running when a decoder is fitted?

No, but I have now fitted an earlier Bachman decoder and it runs as smooth as silk! My question still remains though as I can’t believe Bachman have introduced an inferior product to supercede one that is satisfactory. Are there some CVs to tweak to resolve this, as I still want to be able to use them?

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, paftrain said:

.... I can’t believe Bachman have introduced an inferior product to supercede one that is satisfactory......

 

The current model 36-557 is a rebadged ESU LokPilot Standard, ESU's budget decoder.

It uses a slightly simpler version of the motor drive that's in their LokPilot V4.0 and LokSound V4.0.

 

The older, long discontinued Bachmann 36-553 & 36-554  (8 & 21 pin respectively), were rebadged versions of ESU's earlier budget decoder, the LokPilot Basic.

This used an older generation, less refined motor drive design.

 

In the period between these two rebadged ESU decoders, Bachmann were selling a couple of Soundtraxx decoders under their own name.

General consensus appears to suggest that these were far from perfect ....and/or inferior.

 

.

[paftrain]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The current model 36-557 is a rebadged ESU LokPilot Standard, ESU's budget decoder.

It uses a slightly simpler version of the motor drive that's in their LokPilot V4.0 and LokSound V4.0.

 

The older, long discontinued Bachmann 36-553 & 36-554  (8 & 21 pin respectively), were rebadged versions of ESU's earlier budget decoder, the LokPilot Basic.

This used an older generation, less refined motor drive design.

 

In the period between these two rebadged ESU decoders, Bachmann were selling a couple of Soundtraxx decoders under their own name.

General consensus appears to suggest that these were far from perfect ....and/or inferior.

 

.

Each to their own, I suppose - all I want is smooth running and to be able to control the speed. All my previous Bachmann decoders achieved this and were perfect, not inferior for my needs. I don’t want or need fancy speed curves or lights in a simple steam engine. 

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, paftrain said:

Each to their own, I suppose - all I want is smooth running and to be able to control the speed. All my previous Bachmann decoders achieved this and were perfect, not inferior for my needs. I don’t want or need fancy speed curves or lights in a simple steam engine. 

I don’t feel you’re getting much help here. Let’s look at what we know. ESU make decoders that many people swear by, rather than at, so it is most unlikely that the decoder is defective. Can you reset it to factory settings? If that doesn’t make any difference, then the suggestion to remove caps on the loco comes in - after all, the “good” decoder is a different beast and may simply not be fazed by their presence. The caps are not needed for suppression purposes on a DCC-fitted loco, as the decoder provides the service.

 

Try those things and let us know? 

[Leander]

9 hours ago, paftrain said:

No, but I have now fitted an earlier Bachman decoder and it runs as smooth as silk! My question still remains though as I can’t believe Bachman have introduced an inferior product to supercede one that is satisfactory. Are there some CVs to tweak to resolve this, as I still want to be able to use them?

 

I can!!!

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, Leander said:

 

I can!!!

And your evidence is? 

[Leander]

4 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

And your evidence is? 

 

Posted more in humour than contention.!

 

However, more seriously, the latest type of 'plug in' decoder fitting (something 18) that Bachmann are fitting to their smaller tank engines appears to sacrifice flexibility for ease of fitting, in that there are no contacts to which a Stayalive may be soldered. This surely is a backwards step, especially considering the short wheelbase of these locos. I'm speaking from recent experience with an Ivatt 2-6-2T where the solution to problems with continuity of current collection may well have to be recourse to putting additional pick-ups on the pony wheels at both ends of the loco.

 

i could also cite the split axles on the class 40 compared to the more robust method applied to the Peaks.

[Butler Henderson]

10 hours ago, paftrain said:

No, but I have now fitted an earlier Bachman decoder and it runs as smooth as silk! My question still remains though as I can’t believe Bachman have introduced an inferior product to supercede one that is satisfactory. Are there some CVs to tweak to resolve this, as I still want to be able to use them?

Many decoders do not like the factory fitted capacitors  including many that are highly regarded- that is not an indication of an inferior product. Note for example this comment from DCC Concepts

" Locomotives sold for DC running in UK and Europe will usually have some suppression on the DC motor. This usually includes capacitors and resistor-like items called inductors. When running on DCC they are not needed. You could of course leave them there, but quite often, they will cause poor running, especially at slow speeds, because the capacitor interferes with the very important communication between the motor and the decoder. The best answer is to remove it all and simply take wires directly between (for an 8-pin socket) pin 1 (orange) and one motor brush, pin 5 (grey) and the other motor brush. However if you are careful, you can also just remove the capacitor (it usually looks like a tiny biscuit coloured disc) by just cutting its leads close to its body and making sure no bare wire ends touch where they should not. Please note that some loco brands like Bachmann, may have 2 or 3 of them attached to the motor. Remove them all."

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, Leander said:

 

Posted more in humour than contention.!

 

However, more seriously, the latest type of 'plug in' decoder fitting (something 18) that Bachmann are fitting to their smaller tank engines appears to sacrifice flexibility for ease of fitting, in that there are no contacts to which a Stayalive may be soldered. .....

 

Can you explain what you're on about ? 

 

The NeXT18 (NEM662) and the PluX (NEM658) connectors include decoder positive and decoder negative(*).  Those are the places to attach a stay-alive circuit.    The stay-alive is fitted to the locomotive side of the socket.    The older six-pin (NEM651) and eight-pin (NEM652) connections require the user to attach the stay-alive to bits of the decoder, which often involves soldering onto the decoder, something many find a bit nerve wracking. 

With the NeXT and PluX sockets, the user still has an option of fitting a stay-alive directly to the decoder if they wish, and not use the decoder negative presented on the locomotive side of the socket.  

 

(* PluX12 doesn't have decoder negative, PluX16 and PluX22 include the decoder negative.  The intention is that, where there is sufficient space, manufacturers fit a PluX22 socket and the end user chooses whether to use a 12, 16 or 22 pin decoder in the same socket.   Because of the small NeXT18, there seems little point in using PluX12, but I expect a manufacturer will use that socket somewhere.  )

 

 

- Nigel

 

[paftrain]

12 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Many decoders do not like the factory fitted capacitors  including many that are highly regarded- that is not an indication of an inferior product. Note for example this comment from DCC Concepts

" Locomotives sold for DC running in UK and Europe will usually have some suppression on the DC motor. This usually includes capacitors and resistor-like items called inductors. When running on DCC they are not needed. You could of course leave them there, but quite often, they will cause poor running, especially at slow speeds, because the capacitor interferes with the very important communication between the motor and the decoder. The best answer is to remove it all and simply take wires directly between (for an 8-pin socket) pin 1 (orange) and one motor brush, pin 5 (grey) and the other motor brush. However if you are careful, you can also just remove the capacitor (it usually looks like a tiny biscuit coloured disc) by just cutting its leads close to its body and making sure no bare wire ends touch where they should not. Please note that some loco brands like Bachmann, may have 2 or 3 of them attached to the motor. Remove them all."

 

Thanks everybody for your advice - it looks like the interference suppressors are my problem, although as I have already said, earlier Bachmann decoders (and dare I say it, Hornby TTS decoders) don’t appear to be effected by them.

As I don’t want to dismantle the Atlantic’s tender again for fear of damaging it ( I’ve already damaged the handrails as I’ve had it apart several times already) I’ll experiment with another loco when I’ve got the time.

Thanks again.