Wireless DCC System for ?90 (using SPROG, Raspberry Pi and JMRI)

[MattWallace]

I guess it depends which gauge you model at.

 

Those wireless dongles and probably all the circuitry required would fit perfectly well inside an O-Gauge loco however you'd struggle to get the dongle into an OO loco (especially something like a class 08 or a pannier tank) and it would be nigh-on impossible for N gauge.

[Crosland]

In principle I know how (maybe not for 2mm, O gauge a doddle) but until I can afford to retire the investment in time is the issue

 

Many microcontroller vendors will provide Ethernet stacks that can be hooked up to a WiFi adapter. Just base a loco decoder around that and Bob's your Uncle. I wouldn't go via USB if it could be avoided, as that adds an extra layer of complexity, but I've not seen anything as small as the Edimax adapter, even with its USB connector and case.

 

My main worry is how a WiFi dongle will perform in a metal bodied loco or next to a substantial metal chassis.

 

Andrew

[Godders]

You guys might find these videos of interest

 

http://www.ringengineering.com/railprovideospage.htm

 

It's better than me explaining it

 

I have no interest or link to the company except fascination

 

Cheers Godders

[RAF96]

@ #6 Elite

I had a go at making the Elite wireless (rather than using a sometimes troublesome direct USB-PC cable connx) trying both a WiFi and a BT dongle in the Elite but ran up against the problem of not being able to tell the Elite what was in its USB slot - and no way of loading any dongle software and no other way of configuring the hardware without access to the Elite firmware, which as I am led to believe is using almost all the available Elite memory, hence little scope for more instructions to be loaded anyhow.

I have since thought maybe a PC wireless module and/or similar from a Kindle would be easier to pair.

Any suggestions as to if there is any wireless hardware that is truly PnP without needing any human configuration to get it to talk twixt Elite and PC.

Cheers Rob

[Crosland]

The Elite is a USB device. If the WiFi dongle was designed to be plugged into a PC then it is also a device. How did you connect the two together? If the dongle really does implement a USB host then no firmware changes would be needed in the Elite.

 

Either way, you still have the problem that you are going through the Elite's USB driver, which is where any problems will lie, not in the fact that it uses a direct cable connection.

 

Andrew

[gcodori]

I just ordered a raspi B+ model and case.  I'd like to install JMRI and do the wireless setup such as you described (except I already had a zephyr and locobuffer USB on hand).

 

Have you been able to set up the Raspi to be it's own wireless network instead of being part of an existing network?  For example, using the setup away from your home wifi, being able to create your own network.  How would one set up something like that?

 

Is there a different wireless dongle needed to create a wifi network versus just being able to log into an existing network?

 

Thanks!

[RAF96]

@Andrew re #37

Instead of the normal USB cable I tried plugging 1st a BT dongle (supplied with a netTV smart box to drive a mouse) into the Elite.

I also tried a Netgear WiFi dongle (normally used to connect a non-wireless pc/laptop to a router).

The idea being the Elite would talk through one of these to the PC running Railmaster.

This to avoid having to run a mega-long USB cable twixt pc and where the Elite was nearer the layout.

As stated both attempts failed as there is no way to enter dialogue with the Elite to enable pairing, hence my Q = is there anything out there which will connect automatically.

Rob

[Crosland]

Q = is there anything out there which will connect automatically.

 

There are Wireless USB and USB over IP solutions but I have no experience of either.

 

Belkin do a wireless USB hub but it seems to be directed more to use as a print server. No idea if it is generic enough to allow an Elite to be connected to it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother.

 

Andrew

[lyneux]

Have you been able to set up the Raspi to be it's own wireless network instead of being part of an existing network?  For example, using the setup away from your home wifi, being able to create your own network.  How would one set up something like that?

 

Not yet! But as Dutch Master says, it is possible for linux to use the WiFi dongle as an AP rather than a peer. Just need time to fiddle with it.

 

Guy

[SHMD]

Has anything happened with these ideas? I dislike using a mobile phone interface, preferring the tactility of a knob and a few buttons, and a simple DIY controller with Wifi dongle inside appeals greatly.

Yes, I'm using mine - although not wirelessly yet!

And tactile-ness is important to me too.

 

 

 

OK, it's only a plank but work is continuing...

 

 

Kev.

(The "wifi and dongle" are still (definitely) on the to-do-list.)

[Napa1985]

If it's of any help, https://github.com/proffalken/JMR-Pi is a script that I wrote to auto-install and launch JMRI on the R-Pi.

 

It will install the latest "production" release of JRMI by default.

 

Matt

Hi Matt,

just a quick question,

when i go sudo ./setup.sh, i keep getting a error: Failed to install dependencies

Any ideas, i have no idea when it comes to the pi i just thought be nice to use instead of a netbook 

 

Thanks John

[MattWallace]

Hi Matt,

just a quick question,

when i go sudo ./setup.sh, i keep getting a error: Failed to install dependencies

Any ideas, i have no idea when it comes to the pi i just thought be nice to use instead of a netbook 

 

Thanks John

 

Hi John,

 

It's been a while since I touched this to be honest and it's probably because versions have changed since I last ran it.

 

I don't have time to troubleshoot this at the moment but I'll make a note to look into it and I'll get to it as soon as I can.

 

Regards,

 

Matt

[Andy Reichert]

I'm definitely pro exploring wireless plus track power. IMHO adding a full-time battery just seems to be waste of resources for very little gain.

 

It's the potential both-ways video and feedback aspects that get me excited.

[Andy Reichert]

Is it possible to do this using bluetooth, rather then wi-fi? I don't intend to have a complicated layout, nor many engines, so the usual blueetooth restrictions (number of devices, range) would not concern me.

 

There is new Bachmann (using Blue Rail) product line that suggests this, but they seem to be trying to patent everything done earlier, to stop competition presumably.

[Crosland]

I hope this isn't taken as too commercial (there's nothing actually for sale yet) but, currently on my workbench, the Pi-Nano:

Low level DCC out from a Raspberry Pi to drive booster(s), takes power from the Pi.

 

And Pi-SPROG

DCC to track at 2.5 Amps, needs an external power supply.

 

Both use the R-Pi UART interface, leaving all the USB ports free and requiring no drivers to be installed.

 

Andrew

[Crosland]

I have no experience but, looking at the Tam Valley page, I would say yes to the first question. The second question depends on what sort of data stream the blue tooth dongle expects.

 

Andrew

[aforsyth]

Those look great Andrew. Although dependent mainly on the Nano itself, do you think the Pi-Nano setup would be enough to run a couple of 00 locos on a small shunting plank? I'm guessing that, since I would want to run a couple of sound locos simultaneously at times, the Pi-Sprog with an external power supply (i.e. Spring 3) would be required?

 

I'm guessing you're considering a commercial venture here. What sort of price range are you considering for these interface boards?

 

Cheers,
Alan

[Crosland]

As stated, the Pi-Nano requires a booster so, no, it will not run any locos at all.

 

The Pi-SPROG is equivalent to a SPROG 3 and will easily drive a couple of sound locos.

 

Prices will hopefully be in the same ball-park as the existing SPROG Nano and SPROG 3, or less.

 

Andrew

[Andy Reichert]

Doesn't MERG have cheaper solutions?

[Revolution Mike]

Neatness of the solution I guess is the main benefit.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Crosland]

Andrew, no offence, but what additional value does your system offer over the existing SPROG3 system? Or, in other words: do you really want all the hassle of putting this on the market, with all it's responsibilities and less-then-perfect customers?

LOL! Probably no benefit to existing users. You can of course connect a SPROG 3 to an R-Pi via USB. It's USB drivers that are the biggest problem, mostly on Windows, though.

 

I must admit to a little bit of doing it "because I can"

 

Andrew

[Crosland]

Doesn't MERG have cheaper solutions?

 

I have no hesitation in recommending MERG for those that are prepared to build the kits. The nearest would be the CBUS command station plus a CBUS-USB interface. You might even cover the first years membership and still make a saving

 

Andrew

[gcodori]

In evaluating using the raspi as a headless base station to run JMRI to support wireless for my zephyr - I have decided to go another route...

 

I think I will pick up an HP stream 7 signature edition windows 8.1 tablet from the Microsoft store.  Why?  Simple...

 

It's a full featured windows tablet with windows preinstalled.  It has no bloatware (that's the signature edition means).  It's more powerful than the raspi, has a hard drive, already has wireless (which you can run in AP mode).  It has a screen already (touch screen - no keyboard needed).  It's only 7 inches so I can use it for personal use it or attach it to the facia of the layout.  It has built in USB for the usb to loconet connection (locobuffer).  Will most likely route in a powered usb hub to power the tablet and the locobuffer usb.

 

then I can not only use it for a wireless hub, but also for programming and any other thing I'd need a computer for.  It's only $70.00 USD and includes $25 in store credit (for renting movies or apps for windows).  My Raspi (I already purchased this) was $35, plus I'll need a wireless dongle, power supply, SD card, etc...

 

Thoughts?

[aforsyth]

Without having tried it out (and therefore normal caveats apply), I would think this is sensible.

 

The RPi's strength is in being a reasonably able, pocket-sized computer fitted with a full I/O board for custom 'managed I/O' projects amongst others. As soon as it's dressed up to work like a 'standard' PC/tablet, it's always going to lose out somewhere in the price and performance range.

As long as you can install Java on the Stream 7, it should be fine. There are reports of MS Surface Pro 8.1 tablets running JMRI, so you should be ok. Just make sure it has plenty of RAM, as both Windows and Java work far more reliably with 'more than enough'.

 

It seems that you can also dual-boot the Stream 7 with Linux (Ubuntu) or Android, which makes this tablet more attractive to many of us 'geeks' out there. Looks like a good deal. 

 

Alan

 

 

In evaluating using the raspi as a headless base station to run JMRI to support wireless for my zephyr - I have decided to go another route...

 

I think I will pick up an HP stream 7 signature edition windows 8.1 tablet from the Microsoft store.  Why?  Simple...

 

It's a full featured windows tablet with windows preinstalled.  It has no bloatware (that's the signature edition means).  It's more powerful than the raspi, has a hard drive, already has wireless (which you can run in AP mode).  It has a screen already (touch screen - no keyboard needed).  It's only 7 inches so I can use it for personal use it or attach it to the facia of the layout.  It has built in USB for the usb to loconet connection (locobuffer).  Will most likely route in a powered usb hub to power the tablet and the locobuffer usb.

 

then I can not only use it for a wireless hub, but also for programming and any other thing I'd need a computer for.  It's only $70.00 USD and includes $25 in store credit (for renting movies or apps for windows).  My Raspi (I already purchased this) was $35, plus I'll need a wireless dongle, power supply, SD card, etc...

 

Thoughts?

[gcodori]

So you're spending another 70 bucks (plus shipping, I assume) to save you spending a tenner or so on missing parts for the RPi? Dunno how well you did in Economy class, but if I handed in that solution in a test, I'd have gotten a big fat A

Of course it doesn't make financial sense to spend more money on something.  But there is something to be said to the convenience of it.

 

Say it takes an hour of my time to set up the raspi to set up the linux distro, figure out how to get a wifi dongle to work as an AP (windows has this feature built-in), get any other accessories set up to work with it...At $100/hour I'm already ahead.  Then if I need to make future adjustments or problem solving, I'm crawling under the layout to run a keyboard and cord for a monitor.  And I don't even know how to get something running linux out of "headless" mode.

 

Also, this is a full feature PC - I could run Word, watch a video, skype my kids, etc in addition to being able to run JRMI or Rocrail in full screen mode for programming, full automation, etc.

 

Yes it would cost more.  But I can still use the Raspi for other uses, like adding a shield to interface it with loconet and use on the layout (it's only a handful of components to make the connection).  And besides, who buys one tech gadget and goes "yup, I'm never going to upgrade from this purchase EVER AGAIN."

 

It's just putting it out there for anyone just getting started that there is another choice.  And choices are always good.