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Wireless DCC System for ?90 (using SPROG, Raspberry Pi and JMRI)


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Then if I need to make future adjustments or problem solving, I'm crawling under the layout to run a keyboard and cord for a monitor.  And I don't even know how to get something running linux out of "headless" mode.

 

Hi

 

Why?

 

You can use SSH to connect to the Pi no matter where it is on your internal network using another device. In my case I use an iPad with iSSH to connect to the Pi that runs my Weather Station software.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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Is your tariff really 100 bucks per hour? :O I'm in the wrong profession! ;)

 

Basically, what you're saying is that you don't want to spend time learning new skills or extend your knowledge, just stick within your comfort-zone. Fair choice, and I agree about having the choice. It's just that I wouldn't make that choice :no:

 

Anyway, have fun tinkering Win-OS to get it to work :)

Thanks for assuming you know me, my salary and my abilities (you don't know any of these).  The fact you don't know I'm posting this right now on a PC I built by hand which I'm running a hacked version of OSX on (OSX86) instead of windows means I'm quite familiar with tinkering.  Maybe you don't know I'm in the IT field but felt it necessary to make assumptions.  But that's cool.  How would you know that anyway? I guess it's easier to state put-downs instead of, um, you know, just asking.  Rock on with your assumptions.  Besides I'm not big into arguing on the internet, so I'll just leave it without the personal attacks just because someones solution is different from my method.  

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The idea of the thread is wifi for a model railroad using cheap components. The sprog and raspi are not full featured items on their own. They compliment each other and get the job done with some tinkering.

 

I only suggested substituting a cheap tablet instead of buying a pi plus all of the other items (memory card, power supply, case, wifi dongle,etc) to do the same thing (provide the "computer and wifi" part of the equation).

 

And any system can be used in place of the sprog. I already own a command station and computer interface. The thread only got derailed by the Linux vs windows mess.

 

I appreciate the ideas of the thread. I purchased a pi for this very reason. I just found an easier route (for me) I wanted to share. I'll go crawl back into my cave now...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Today a Tesco Connect tablet was delivered, followed half an hour later by a Sprog Nano (I have some Tam Valley radio components in the post.

 

As gcodori suggests, this is a very simple installation, with the added bonus that you also get a useful tablet! To be perfectly honest, this household needs another tablet like it needs a hole in the head, so I am unlikely to use it (and the "free" MSOffice is worth diddly squat as we already have a family licence - shame I couldn't have paid less for the tablet instead!) What I do have, which the PI lacks but could be purchased, is a screen and keyboard, so this is quite a flexible solution.

 

I'm glad you found success.  As I had stated, configuring windows 10 to be a WAP is a simple ON/OFF setting. Much easier than the Pi.  

 

I hope the hordes with pitchforks and torches go easy on you for using Windows (GASP!) instead of Linux.  Like myself, I guess you are to busy to "learn new skills and expand your knowledge" as one user posted.  I guess some of us just want to run trains - go figure.

 

Regarding the single charge port/usb connection - there are special cords that allow for charging AND usb connection simultaneously.  These are called USB OTG cables and you can get less expensive options from places like eBay.  Just find one that works with your tablet - some third party cables have a switch to allow it to work with many different brands.

 

Also, you can use the tablet to program your decoders and you can also use it with rocrail and automate the layout.  Since there is a built in screen you can more than just run in headless mode.  Use the screen as the control panel if you want.  Check out the rocrail site.  It's Linux, Mac and Windows (GASP!) compatible.  The makers of rocrail have a whole system that uses the raspi as a command system if you still have a raspi to use.

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It arrived with Windows 8.1, not 10.

I have used Unix off and on since about 1990, my main home computer is a Mac, this is being typed on a series 1 IPad, and I stopped counting the number of operating systems I have used (excluding different releases of the same thing) many years ago. Mind you, I am not saying I am articulately proficient in any of them!

I think that was me, actually, but yes, I am more interested in using the technology to support my hobby, than I am in the technology being my hobby.

  Thanks for the gen on OTG cables.

I have absolutely zero desire to automate my layout: I want to use DCC as a sophisticated wireless control system for my engines, but nothing beyond that.

 

For the WAP, just remember that windows 10 is just a revised version of 8.  See below for turning your computer into a Hotspot.

 

...your Internet connection by creating a mobile hotspot
  1. Swipe in from the right edge of the screen, tap Settings, and then tap Change PC settings.

    (If you're using a mouse, point to the upper-right corner of the screen, move the mouse pointer down, click Settings, and then click Change PC settings.)

  2. Tap or click Network, and then tap or click your mobile broadband connection.

  3. Tap or click the Share this connection slider to turn it on.

  4. If you want to change the network name or password of the shared connection, tap or click Edit.

In Windows 10, it's also just an on/off slider too.  You should be able to get windows 10 as a free update.  I highly recommend it, the OS is pretty streamlined compared to 7 or 8.

Also, for those who already have the raspi, you can use a tablet as the computer/wifi aspect of this project, and the raspi can be the CS + Booster portion if you check out the rocnetnode pages at rocrail.  http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=rocnet:rocnetnode-en.

You will find adapters that you can build (or buy) that turns the Pi into a CS, similar to the sprog but with more expand-ability built in.  This requires a LOT of tinkering, which should make this crowd pleased.

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Do we know when Windows 10 will be available for the Pi yet? It might make setting up a bit easier for some.

 

The IOT (Internet of Things) version of Windows 10 for the Raspberry Pi has already been formally released by Microsoft (http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/GetStarted.htm), but this is not the standard pointer/touch-driven Windows install as most would expect it.

 

Once it boots up, it displays a simple welcome / info screen on the RPi, connects to Ethernet/WiFi/Bluetooth and waits for command connections from a PC, meanwhile running any programs you've deployed to it from the PC (i.e. to flash lights, run servos, etc.). That's about it - you use the free or paid versions of Visual Studio on your W10 PC to create and deploy your custom IOT programs to it, and you can connect to the RPi via PowerShell to run basic commands on it.

 

At first glance, it seems closer to an Arduino scenario - the RPi becoming a client platform with programmable I/O. Shame - I was naively kind of looking forward to seeing a full graphic Windows 10 OS run on RPi, but that is probably practically impossible!

 

Alan

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Shame on you indeed, as it was made clear from the very first announcement by the RPi Foundation that Win10 on the RPi would NOT be the fully fledged version :rolleyes: :nono: :P

 

Haha - yes indeed ... if I was one of those people who read RPi Foundation announcements (and was following the Pi back then), I would have known...!  :yes:

However, I suspect I am not the only one who mis-interpreted the hype. Nuts. 

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So there's no GUI? Not really Windows is it? And the point of it is what?

 

I'm guessing the point is that with this step, MS have tamed yet another 'Internet of Things' platform to be subservient to Windows-based programs and solutions, with Visual Studio becoming the development hub.The Raspberry Pi in that scenario is not a mini replacement for a laptop or tablet, but rather an interface for Windows to the world of electronic sensors and gadgets. That is their vision - to have Windows-based or Windows-compatible programmable devices as main players in IOT, to ensure that Visual Studio and the Windows OS remain the development platform of choice for many commercial developers. It's a sensible plan for them - but in the same way as for mobiles, I think Linux-based platforms will remain attractive for many developers, because it can be so completely customised with minimal licensing restrictions or cost.

 

Anyway - this is seriously off-topic now! Apologies to the OP.

 

Alan.

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  • 3 months later...

Thanks Simon - but it seems strange that this Kickstarter is being launched when a company they mention in the page blurb (Bachmann US) is already rolling out something similar in a big way:

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5844

 

The Bachmann Bluetooth control for IOS apparently already supports light and sound as well as motor control, so I'd at least like to see how Monocacy Trains differentiate themselves from that (MT's modules will probably retail for 30-40 GBP at a guess, so it's not that cheap).

 

Now if this phone interface was on top of a decent battery powered solution (i.e. BP Radio Control BPRC or BP Bluetooth Control - BPBC), compatible with DCC and with rail-based recharging, that would be more novel, to my mind.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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  • 2 months later...

The Pi 3 has been launched today: wireless and Bluetooth built in, with a starter pack from pihut available for £50 (plus £2.50 p&p).

Add a Sprog or Sprog booster and an old phone running some suitable software (Engine Driver, WiThrottle), and there you go. It is getting simpler.

 

Yes, I got the email through earlier about that. A shame they didn't take the chance to up the memory though really (for other uses mainly, but Java is a memory hog sadly too). The usual moans about only 10/100mbit ethernet (despite it being directly connected to the USB2.0 hub/bus and thus gigabit would be ineffectual) on the pi forums have appeared already lol.

 

I might get one later in the year, though more than likely I will get 2 and replace the Pi2 I have running Kodi (the armv8 at 1.2ghz and 400mhz gpu is a reasonable boost, though more codecs would  have been nice too for that). Just need a SPROG 3 now :) in the meantime it's back to Templot to plan the layout :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Has anyone tried a Pi Zero, as an ultra low-cost basis for a simple DCC system? As a dedicated microprocessor running JMRI in headless mode, using Bluetooth to connect to a mobile phone app, and connected directly to a Sprog, might it work for a simple setup, with maybe just the one mobile phone in use as a controller, running a one engine in steam layout which used DCC only for controlling the engines, and nothing else like route setting? Could JMRI be cut down to basics, to reduce the demands on the processor? Would that even be necessary?

 

You might still need wifi as I'm not sure if the JMRI app will work via bluetooth or not. Suspect that JMRI would be too much for the Zero as it is Java based and pretty memory/cpu  intensive.

 

Would be great if it would work, but I'm skeptical.

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The zero does not have the multi-USB and Ethernet that the other Pis have so that might be a bit limiting if you have to supply a USB hub and all the peripherals which will soon add up.

 

The Pi3 is not expensive and worth the extra for its integrated Wi-Fi and Bluetooth alone.

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The zero does not have the multi-USB and Ethernet that the other Pis have so that might be a bit limiting if you have to supply a USB hub and all the peripherals which will soon add up.

 

The Pi3 is not expensive and worth the extra for its integrated Wi-Fi and Bluetooth alone.

 

From what I've seen of the Pi3, it's wifi is known to be potentially problematical. It might simply be immature drivers in current builds of Linux for it at present, or could be a quirk of the USB2.0->wifi/bluetooth/ethernet bridge chip(s).

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I have found the Pi 3 WiFi to be unreliable, compared to other devices, losing VNC connections, for example. Apparently the power management is too aggressive. I haven't had chance to try yet but was told to add

wireless-power off

to the interfaces file after the wpa_supplicant.conf line

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  • 6 months later...

Just raising this thread from the dead as I want a similar outcome to SimonD, and this thread seems to be particularly relevant. Note please I'm a complete numpty in terms of tech stuff.

 

I'd like to get true wireless DCC, and I'm looking at using the Deltang transcievers as the onboard 'DCC Decoder', given that they have the wireless capability onboard, along with motor control and accessory connections. Robin2 identified that the Deltang units can be used as arduino devices (Atmega328 MCU), and coined the term 'Deltino'. Wireless is via a Cyprus CYRF6936.

 

From current research, I'm looking at JMRI running headless on a Pi3, with WiThrottle. So the question is (showing my complete ignorance) could the Pi3 be configured as a Wireless Access Point, and therefore;

  • broadcast the command signals to the 'Deltino',
  • receive information back from the 'Deltino', eg motor speed from an optical encoder

Or would JMRI likely require an output device, such as an xBee (one of the supported hardware).

 

Following from that would then be looking at ways to upload a sketch to the "Deltino', and I note that there are sketches out there for arduino DCC decoders. I imagine that something would need to be done with the Cyprus CYRF6936, and note that Robin2 developed some code for this which could be used in a 'DCC Decoder Sketch'.

 

Apologies if this is a cross post, however the other area that this exercise is being discussed on is the radio control forum, especially regarding sound. I'm raising this here as a DCC topic, and ignoring the power and sound aspects of the discussion.

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Just raising this thread from the dead as I want a similar outcome to SimonD, and this thread seems to be particularly relevant. Note please I'm a complete numpty in terms of tech stuff.

This thread is really about wireless to the throttles, not decoders, but...

 

I'd like to get true wireless DCC, and I'm looking at using the Deltang transcievers as the onboard 'DCC Decoder', given that they have the wireless capability onboard, along with motor control and accessory connections. Robin2 identified that the Deltang units can be used as arduino devices (Atmega328 MCU), and coined the term 'Deltino'. Wireless is via a Cyprus CYRF6936.

 

From current research, I'm looking at JMRI running headless on a Pi3, with WiThrottle. So the question is (showing my complete ignorance) could the Pi3 be configured as a Wireless Access Point, and therefore;

  • broadcast the command signals to the 'Deltino',
  • receive information back from the 'Deltino', eg motor speed from an optical encoder
Or would JMRI likely require an output device, such as an xBee (one of the supported hardware).

Yes, the Pi3 can be configured as a Wireless access point.

 

For the rest of it you (or someone) will need to write the code for JMRI to implement a soft command station and send and receive the correctly formatted packets to and from the decoders via network sockets. You also need a scheme to "register" locos with the command station and assign IP addresses. I don't think it's a trivial exercise but a networking expert will be able to correct me.

 

I would want to know what the maximum latency is and what happens if the WiFi channel is congested. Runaway locos are a possibility.

 

Andrew

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  • 3 months later...

Just received my Raspberry Pi 3 B, installed raspbian Jessie OS and JMRI. Set up the on-board wifi as a wireless access point to negate the need of a separate wireless router and connected a Sprog II V3 (via USB) controlling a small test layout. (There is a Sprog-Pi that piggybacks on the Pi but I already had the Sprog II). iPhone and iPad connect with wi-throttle app to the Pi. Working well so far.

 

I'm no computer nerd when it comes to Linux but the PDF instructions on the Sprog-DCC website are well written and relatively easy to follow. Although written specifically for the Sprog-Pi, I just had to omit the serial setup bit to get it working with the Sprog II.

 

Makes a nice cheap (sub £100) stand-alone DCC system for those who like 'touch' control wireless throttles without all the paraphernalia of laptop/pc's/wireless routers etc.

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