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A thread for Kirdon models. Start off with this unusual conversion of an LMS 10000 with two Tri-ang Jinty chassis!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LMS-10000-PROTOTYPE-00-GAUGE-Co-Co-KIT-BUILT-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-KIRDON-DUBLO-/300851930825?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=XrSqUaBg6ASK2kexfbhGv1%252Fy0DE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

A few years ago, I met someone at Reading Toyfair who use to work at Eames of Reading who told me they converted Kirdon 10000s with Tri-ang steam loco chassis as the mechanics of the Kirdon 10000 were so poor. I had wondered how this might work and had assumed that the side rods would  be largely hidden by the bogie side frames. This seems to be one of these conversions - the first I have seen. The wheel flanges have also been turned down. I also recall this person saying that some batches of Kirdon 10000s were made in a  red plastic. I am yet to see one of them unless all those I have seen have been so well painted black that none of the red is visible. Kirdon made at least two sets of moulds for 10000 as there are two distinct versions - one has finer grilles than the other when compared alongside.

 

The Kirdon 10000 was originally powered by a Romford Phantom motor that drove a metal sprung band (basically like an elastic band) to drive a shaft that was geared to the wheels. This band passed through a slot in the chassis making the model very weak at this point and the chassis likely to fall apart. What appear to be later professional conversions used one or two Tri-ang EM2 motor bogies, which have very similar side frames.

 

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They did an N2 casting as well (quite a popular choice* though none of the models was much good) It is possibly the same as the Gaiety one???? and I seem to remember a Diesel shunter.

 

I'd like to add a Kirdon 10000 to my collection, but the last one I saw was £127 (strange price!) - not quite to Grifone scale!

 

* Dublo (undersized H0 scale wheelbase and diameter and incorrect cab shape) Trackmaster/Triang (about the best, but clockwork) and Gaiety (seriously challenged haulage wise with the original chassis)

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Looking through some old mags., I found a KIrdon advert (MRN oct. 1955), The N2 is listed as a complete kit at 49/6, 10000 costs £5/12/- and the D.E. shunter* is £4/18/- (all available as 2 or 3 rail). There's also a motor bogie (56/-) an American box car kit at 27/6 (slightly cheaper than the Rivarossi reefer in the same issue at 32/8).

 

Also listed are 3 bridge kits (at 7/7) and various controllers.

 

* 13005 according to the Model Railway Hobby Show article inside. It's claimed 10000 will negotiate 15" radius curves. Not having owned one, I can't comment on this

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ISTR the Kirdon 350 shunter was solidly cast whitemetal. I think Adrian Swain of ABS Models has one in his collection.

I believe it was, though I've never seen one. The magazine illustrates the contemporary Hambling version which definitely was.

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I vaguely remember an article in RM which describes the building of a 'super hauler' diesel shunter (08 style) using a cast body and reduction gearing.  I suppose this could have a Hamblings body but alternatively a Kirdon one??

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Ebay.....a depository for crap. Why anyone would want to bother with ancient rubbish is beyond me. For goodness sakes move on, save up for the latest model and let the wheeler-dealers sit on their mountains of garbage fit only for the skip. Customers used to bring garbage bought at car boot sales and flea markets thinking I had a magic wand. They came to the wrong bloke!

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The box for the Kirdon diesel shunter exists, atleast one does in a private collection.  There is however no evidence of the locomotive being actually produced. 

Possibly the arrival of the competing Hamblings model was the signal to stop development (like the Dublo 56xx). The advert indicates it as available, but that doesn't mean it was, of course.

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I vaguely remember an article in RM which describes the building of a 'super hauler' diesel shunter (08 style) using a cast body and reduction gearing.  I suppose this could have a Hamblings body but alternatively a Kirdon one??

Is this the one in the October 1966 RM? Very low geared and heavy? The article refers to an Essar cast body being used, which is a make that I've never come across elsewhere. It sounds as if there were more 350hp shunter models available in the 1960s than there are today (Kirdon, Hamblings, Kitmaster, Essar, Triang, Hornby Dublo), but surprisingly few seem to have survived. I'd love to see a Kirdon version.

 

David

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Ebay.....a depository for crap. Why anyone would want to bother with ancient rubbish is beyond me. For goodness sakes move on, save up for the latest model and let the wheeler-dealers sit on their mountains of garbage fit only for the skip. Customers used to bring garbage bought at car boot sales and flea markets thinking I had a magic wand. They came to the wrong bloke!

Going off topic, but where's the challenge in that Coach? I've just picked up an old 1958 CCW GWR 48XX kit on Ebay - someone had tried and failed to build it over the last 55 years - so out with the Nitromors, some new Slaters wheels, an 1824 and gearbox from the spares box and some TLC with the wet'n'dry and low melt, and I'm nicely on my way to a bargain auto tank as a surprise present for my old Dad later in the year. Some Archers resin rivets and brass beading will add detail that CCW never intended originally, but hey, the dimensions are spot on (apart from an overlong smokebox that the Dremel will fix) - there's life in some of the old dogs yet (even the GW ones!).

 

David

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Glad you were able to breath fresh life into the 7mm CCW 48XX David. I wouldn't condemn Ebay as a whole for one minute and obviously a discriminating individual will recognise the decent deals just as he would at an auction. More importantly however, he/she would also be aware of models that are quite simply rubbish and beyond a challenge.

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David B - that's probably the one, sounds like it.  I remember it now as the Essar body.  Once upon a time I had a yen to build a similar one with a Kitmaster body and a lot of lead - but it never happened!

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Essar (Reidpath) and Hamblings are the same thing*, but I don't think a vast number were sold (It was quite expensive). The Tri-ang and Dublo are still quite common (The Tri-ang horror is still available in the Railroad range) and the Kitmaster kits turn up from time to time, especially pre assembled.

 

There was an article in the model press on motorising the Kitmaster model. One suggestion was to use the Hamblings chassis. While this would have worked (apart from lack of adhesion) purchase of the Dublo model was a rather more economical option.

 

*model-wise - the commercial relations have been covered elsewhere.

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Guest spet0114

 The right hand model is Reidpath.

 

How do you reach that conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just interested in your reasoning.

 

Also, just to clarify, the Tri-ang and Dublo shunters were marketed as RTR, but the rest (Hambling, Kirdon, Essar and Kitmaster) were all in kit form - correct?

 

Cheers

Adrian

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  • RMweb Gold

How do you reach that conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just interested in your reasoning.

 

 

 

Cheers

Adrian

 

I've not contributed to this thread before but I do have a number of Essar/Reidpath locos and chassis.

 

The wheels, gears and wiring arrangement visible under the right hand shunter in the photo are exactly the same as my chassis under various bodies, all made by Essar/Reidpath.

 

Hence I would agree with spet0114.  Only I should have put 32A was the one I agreed with

 

Edited to correct a nonsense reply by me.

 

David

Edited by DaveF
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Guest spet0114

Hence I would agree with spet0114.

You can't agree with me, I'm the one asking the question! :)

Edited by spet0114
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How do you reach that conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just interested in your reasoning.

 

Also, just to clarify, the Tri-ang and Dublo shunters were marketed as RTR, but the rest (Hambling, Kirdon, Essar and Kitmaster) were all in kit form - correct?

 

Cheers

Adrian

 

The wheels certainly look like Hamblings.

 

Tri-ang and Dublo were R-T-R.  IIRC Hamblings/Essar was available as both*, the Kirdon is listed as "DIESEL LOCOS 0-6-0 SHUNTING LOCO £4-18-0  10000 MAIN (sic) LOCO £5-12-0" (no mention of kit unlike the N2, bridges and box car) and the Kitmaster was a plastic kit (3/6).

 

*I can remember seeing an unpainted casting in the shop (one piece including the outside frames).

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I seem to recall reading somewhere that there are two different mouldings representing 10000 and 10001. Apparently there is a difference in the turn under at the bottom of the sides.

 

Again memory plays tricks and I would welcome any real evidence.

Edited by Il Grifone
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  • RMweb Gold

I am confused!  The right hand model has an Essar (Reidpath chassis) and is identical  to the models I own.  Do you therefore agree with my assessment or that of spet0114?

 

Furthermore the owner of the boxes if I recall correctly commented that it was not the Kirdon product.

 

Please (again!) post images of your locomotives, this is a request I have made numerous times to no avail!!!!

Sorry, I meant I agree with 32a!!  i.e. the right hand one is Essar.

 

My 0-6-0s are the various versions of the standard Essar tanks.

 

Four of the locos are illustrated below.

The fifth is a Hamblings Gnat with an Essar chassis, the 6th is a scratchbuilt J69 from around 1954 with an Essar chassis with smaller wheels.

 

post-5613-0-75657100-1362849632_thumb.jpg

 

post-5613-0-93658100-1362849636_thumb.jpg

 

post-5613-0-36876300-1362849640_thumb.jpg

 

post-5613-0-27564100-1362849644_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

David

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  • 2 months later...

Following my 1956 Model Railway News thread, here are the adverts for the Kirdon items.

 

The first full page one shows the availaibilty of the 2 diesel locos.  I think the comment about the 10000 loco now being produced in-house relates to an item in the magazine editorial where Kirdon apologise for late delivery due to being let down by an outside contractor.  The second full page ad doesn't mention the shunter but includes the motor bogie with the spring drive system.  Also note the 'digs' at other manufacturers of power equipment (H&M?) over the use of the 'Minor' model branding. Also, what was the Coupling they were advertising?

 

The W&H ad shows the English Electric '08' design shunter. Is this the same as the Hamblings one?

 

The last photo shows that the Kirdon diesel shunter did actually exist (as a sample if nothing else!) and the 10000 model is running on Hornby Dublo 3-rail

post-807-0-49896400-1369318106_thumb.jpg

post-807-0-74089100-1369318151_thumb.jpg

post-807-0-65491800-1369318274_thumb.jpg

post-807-0-62987900-1369318295_thumb.jpg

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I have some Kirdon controllers, but am unable to confirm the superiority or otherwise of the resistances over the H & M product as they have succumbed to acetate warp, whereas the the latter carry on for ever.

I am firmly committed to variable transformers however. I have built a transistor feedback unit which gives excellent results, but some motors are allergic to it and overheat  (they're not fancy coreless types either).

Edited by Il Grifone
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