Bullied Coaches

[matt1471]

I'm looking at purchasing a couple of Bachmann bullied coaches in Malachite Green.

 

I'm not hugely committed on era, but keen to learn if these would have ever carried the BR Lion and Wheel crest on them as they currently don't.

 

Thanks in advance

Matt

[SRman]

There is a picture on page 35 in Streets of Brighton (Glyn Kraemer-Johnson & John Bishop, 2004, Ian Allan Publishing) of 4472 Flying Scotsman leaving Brighton on an excursion in the 1960s and the first coach is a Bulleid semi-open brake second complete with crest. The second coach is a maroon Mk1 second.

 

While certainly not common for Bulleids to have the crest, it proves that there is a prototype for just about everything!

[ChrisH]

The only SR loco hauled vehicles to be repainted into a 'crested' livery were the vehicles for the Royal Wessex train, initially a BR mk1 rake which was replaced in the '60s by a Bulleid set. The BR set was repainted into standard green, but I believe that towards the end of loco hauled services the Bullied set escaped into general use, hence the photo at Brighton. Remember that there were only about a dozen vehicles in this style.

 

At a later date the Southern got a batch of BR BCKs and the early Mk2 FKs that were delivered with crests.

 

Chris

[Nearholmer]

Folks

 

Can I ask for a bit of clarification around some things that confuse me?

 

First:

 

Some Bullied coaches seem to have had side panelling that extended down, over the solebars, giving a sort of "deep sided" look to the car.

 

My understanding is that this applied only to some early-build vehicles, and that the panelling over the solebars created a rust trap, so was omitted from later vehicles and/or cut back to above solebars as cars went through overhaul.

 

Did I get that right? If so, does anyone know which cars had this feature, and for how long?

 

Second:

 

I've seen reference to "BRCW" cars, which I think were Bullied-design vehicles, with construction contracted to BRCW.

 

Again, did I get that right? And, were they visibly different from in-house built cars?

 

Many thanks in advance, Kevin

[Kubes]

Eleven six car dining sets nos 290 to 300 were built for the Bournemouth services with extended bodysides over the solebar except where there were stepboards. I don't know if/when this was removed but I don't think any other Bullied carriages except the Tavern cars shared this feature.

The BRCW built sets were visibly different with shallower windows and no sliding ventilators fitted in corridor windows. David Gould's book published by Oakwood Press gives full details.

Hope this helps!

Kubes

[Kubes]

Agh! My autocorrect didn't recognise Bulleid!

[Nearholmer]

Many thanks, Kubes, although you've probably done Mr Gould out of a tiny royalty payment, because that is really enough "gen" to satisfy my curiosity.

 

And, if you notice, even the thread title has been auto-in-corrected!

 

Kevin

[SRman]

Agh! My autocorrect didn't recognise Bulleid!

 

Yes I've had that happen on occasions too. Autocorrect knows how to spell "Bulleid" so much better than we do! 

[SRman]

Eleven six car dining sets nos 290 to 300 were built for the Bournemouth services with extended bodysides over the solebar except where there were stepboards. I don't know if/when this was removed but I don't think any other Bullied carriages except the Tavern cars shared this feature.

The BRCW built sets were visibly different with shallower windows and no sliding ventilators fitted in corridor windows. David Gould's book published by Oakwood Press gives full details.

Hope this helps!

Kubes

 

Nicely summarised there, Kubes.

 

Kevin: There were many minor variations in various builds of Bulleid coaches, and a couple of major ones. The BRCW ones were, as mentioned, distinctly different, with their shallower windows. The earliest builds were what we tend to refer to as 'multi-door' stock, with doors to each compartment, and to every second compartment (roughly) on the corridor side. The first sets were on 59' underframes (eight sets), while the last four sets were on 64' frames and had an extra compartment in each coach. All were originally 3-sets, but many were split up in the last days. These also lacked ventilators on the large corridor side windows, and also had shallow windows like the BRCW sets, but the compartment sides more closely resembled Bulleid's suburban EMU stock. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, the Bournemouth 6-sets never lost their deeper side panels. I recently saw a photo in one of my books with one of these coaches mixed into a train of assorted Bulleid and BR stock, once again towards the end of their lives when sets were disbanded.

 

The other obvious but more subtle difference between designs was the depth of the window vents, with SR-built stock having 10-1/2" deep vents and BR-built Bulleid designs having 15" deep vents, as modelled by Bachmann. Minor variations occurred in the lengths of roof water tanks, and lengths and numbers of step boards, particularly at the brake ends. Most of this is covered in the old Model Railway Constructor Plan Book (Bulleid Coaches in 4mm Scale, by S. W. Stevens-Stratton), which also includes details of set numbers and 4 SUB EMU stock variations.

 

All of the Bulleid designs had the small lozenge shaped windows over every door droplight.

Edited September 7, 2016 by SRman

[Nearholmer]

Thanks SRMan

 

This is all about the fact that an 0 gauge coarse-scale supplier is planning production of a six car set, and has, for reasons best known to themselves, decided to go for Set 296, which has the extended side panels. They imply that all Bulleid coaches have this feature, and I knew that was untrue - I now know that it is very untrue!

 

Anyway, still haven't decided whether or not to save up for the set, which is bound to be very nice, but also bound to be too long for my "three coaches works best" railway!

 

With my uniform cap,you'd think I'd know already, wouldn't you?

 

Kevin

[Kubes]

I can sort of see why they have chosen this prototype given the nature of the coarse scale market - to the casual observer one post war steel carriage looks much like any other and the extended bodyside differentiates it. I guess the models will be shorter than scale to cope with sharp curves but then so were the final Hornby-Dublo models and they were much more "railwaylike" than any other coaches even twenty years later.

Kubes

[Nearholmer]

You might be right about distinctiveness, because a lot of people get Bulleid's and Mark 1s mixed-up, added to which they are also doing the Tavern set, which is uniform.

 

They will be 400mm long, which in think is bang on scale 57ft, and there is currently a bit of a fashion for much nearer to scale length in coarse-scale, with another manufacturer promising scale length Mark 1s. Personally, I'm not totally in favour, because one huge advantage of coarse scale is the ability to use tight curves, and long coaches instantly make the curves look very silly, sillier, in fact, than slightly short coaches.

 

Glad you like HD coaches, because I'm a massive fan, in fact, to me, good coarse-scale 0 is simply Giant HD, for chaps with failing eyesight. My layout is really the classic 4ft x 8ft sheet of plywood, grown large.

 

Anyway, thanks again, Kevin

[Kubes]

Of course they could have chosen the first Bulleid coaches which actually were 59ft long!

Kubes

[Mallard60022]

Eleven six car dining sets nos 290 to 300 were built for the Bournemouth services with extended bodysides over the solebar except where there were stepboards. I don't know if/when this was removed but I don't think any other Bullied carriages except the Tavern cars shared this feature.

The BRCW built sets were visibly different with shallower windows and no sliding ventilators fitted in corridor windows. David Gould's book published by Oakwood Press gives full details.

Hope this helps!

Kubes

Bit late this but the 'Rebuilt' Restaurant/Dining Cars D2665 had skirt sides inside the end door footboards; that looked weird compared to the 'Bournemouth Stock' and the Taverns.

Phjil

[Mallard60022]

The BRCW built sets were visibly different with shallower windows and no sliding ventilators fitted in corridor windows. David Gould's book published by Oakwood Press gives full details.

Hope this helps!

Kubes

BRCW Roof details were also different.

Phil

[SRman]

BRCW Roof details were also different.

Phil

 

True: not mentioned before, but they had very distinctive large roof vents.

[Mallard60022]

True: not mentioned before, but they had very distinctive large roof vents.

Yes, I was reading last evening that they were an attempt to supply more air to the corridor side where (as stated earlier) there were no vents! No idea if that worked

[Wickham Green]

One difference that I don't think has been mentioned so far is that a number of the late Southern & early B.R. builds had a sincle, central 'Prestall' vacuum cylinder ( as moulded by Bachmann ) in place of two conventionally placed ones as fitted to the first, B.R.C.W. & later sets ........... I'm not sure if this affected battery box locations - which might be more visible on a model !

[Mallard60022]

One difference that I don't think has been mentioned so far is that a number of the late Southern & early B.R. builds had a sincle, central 'Prestall' vacuum cylinder ( as moulded by Bachmann ) in place of two conventionally placed ones as fitted to the first, B.R.C.W. & later sets ........... I'm not sure if this affected battery box locations - which might be more visible on a model !

Yup. They got replaced/removed most of the time as improved fitting were applied. Sometimes the Central Prestall Cylinder was left in Situ. Not a nightmare of detail as it is really out of sight, however the replacement vacuum tanks  were evident.

Phil