Improving Lima HST

[sub39h]

^^

They are pretty much the same type of replacement motor that the recently-defunct Australian firm ModelTorque used to supply for exactly the same purpose. I think they were originally meant for things like cassette players and DVD/CD drives.

 

I have used them to upgrade an ex-Lima Class 40, and they are certainly a little stronger than the original Lima motor.

 

thanks for that. at £12 each or whatever it would be cheaper to buy two of those than it would another Class 25 motor. It would also be less hassle as I have to change the worm gear and the wheels and fabricate a new mounting system.

 

Interesting thread, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

I have a Lima HST in GWT Merlin livery, which Hornby have not yet done. Nor have they gone the GWT fagpacket green....

 

Mine no longer has the power and/or inclination to haul a decent set of carriages round the layout, so also needs to get fixed... But like anything else there are higher priorities at the moment.

 

haha I had one of those. i traded it for some Eurostar middle coaches and a Bachmann TEA a couple of weeks ago. Hornby did do one, but it was with the old style power cars. the chap I traded it with had one in the shop.

 

Might it be worth seeing if the requisite drive train components from the more recent Hornby power-car are available from someone like East Kent Models? I've gone down this road with a few older items of stock where the body has been detailed; it's normally relatively simple to do, and you can even keep the old Lima 'chassis' moulding if you so wish, simply installing new bogies, driveshafts and motor.

 

i will give that a go, thanks. I saw a drive unit from a new Hornby car on eBay but it was £39 + P&P or something which was a little rich for my blood. 

[sub39h]

Well I've managed to pick up three reasonably priced 25s at Ally Pally today so the project with 25 motors continues!

[Marcyg]

I put modeltorque motors in my HST sets. A little extra weight and 2 powered PCs will shift a full length HST at a fair lick, in fact, it's the only way I found to get an HST to run at 125mph. Lima gear trains are noisy, but so are the real things. The Lima shell in my opinion is still the best out there. Don't loose faith in the older models, for a lot less outlay than the new Hornby gear, they can work just as well

[Horsetan]

.....Lima gear trains are noisy, but so are the real things. ....

 

You should have a blast of noise as the driving car goes by, followed some seconds later by another blast of noise as the trailing car brings up the rear!

[sub39h]

thanks for the above. i would have probably gone for the ModelTorque option originally if it still existed! looks like i got into the hobby a few months too late. anyhow, the reason i want to quieten it down is i plan on adding DCC sound at a later date. it's all well and good being noisy, but i want the right noise! 

 

it will be a massive project, i've got ahold of an old Model Rail issue with an article on adding directional lights. 

 

i think once i'm finished with adding the new motors and lights the Hornby option may well have been cheaper. 

 

I don't suppose anyone has a couple of spare cabin inserts they'd be willing to sell me?

Edited March 27, 2013 by sub39h

[Horsetan]

....i would have probably gone for the ModelTorque option originally if it still existed! looks like i got into the hobby a few months too late......

 

But you're not too late; the option still exists....

[sub39h]

thanks for that, i linked that company above and asked for reviews. in the end i plumped for some cheap Bachmann 25s from Ally Pally. I'm pot committed now. 

[Marcyg]

To be honest, that's what in mine. They're the same motors exactly as the ModelTorque ones, so will operate the same. All my HST's are done and so are my 87's. Need to fond a way to stick one in a Hornby 86 now

But you're not too late; the option still exists....

[sub39h]

thanks for the above. looking at the amount of work that is needed to do the conversion, i'm back to thinking that simple remotoring like above is the right thing to do

 

besides, getting enough Warship wheels and 158 worm gears from Bachmann is proving tricky. they can only supply enough for 2 locos and i ideally want power cars at either end 

[sub39h]

change of plan - i've totally abandoned the idea of using Class 25 motors. even at the bargain basement price I got for factory 2nd 25s at Ally Pally's Bachmann stand it would be cheaper to use a Hornby donor vehicle and run a single power car. I spotted a new Virgin Hornby HST super detail on eBay for £85 delivered and decided that would be the new underpinnings of my HST as per the guide below. (please be aware that clicking on the link below causes my Avast anti-virus to throw up an alert. proceed at your own risk.) 

 

http://users.on.net/~kachevy/Projects/XPT_Conversion/

 

 

the only thing i'm unclear about is why he's used the Black Cat Tech light board instead of using the one from the new unit. I suppose I'll have to work that out when my HST pack comes. 

Edited April 21, 2013 by sub39h

[Adrian Wintle]

Interesting thread, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

I have a Lima HST in GWT Merlin livery, which Hornby have not yet done. Nor have they gone the GWT fagpacket green....

 

Mine no longer has the power and/or inclination to haul a decent set of carriages round the layout, so also needs to get fixed... But like anything else there are higher priorities at the moment.

 

Hornby did an HST in GWT Merlin with the old power cars - I have a 2+8 rake.

 

I did a mod to a Lima set by removing the motor from the power car and putting the chassis of a Bachmann 158 in the Restaurant car - it will happily move a 2+7 rake around on the flat.

 

Adrian

[Neal Ball]

Hornby did an HST in GWT Merlin with the old power cars - I have a 2+8 rake.

 

I did a mod to a Lima set by removing the motor from the power car and putting the chassis of a Bachmann 158 in the Restaurant car - it will happily move a 2+7 rake around on the flat.

 

Adrian

 

Sorry Adrian, I should have qualified!! - Hornby have not done the Merlin livery in their re-tooled version of the HST. 

 

Looking at ebay there are some donors around in the shape of new tooling Virgin or GNER, which should make a straight forward swap of the Lima body... But like anything at the moment, I have so many other half finished projects, this one will have to wait! The idea of the 158 sounds interesting as well.

[sub39h]

i have totally abandoned this now and purchased 2 of the Hornby HSTs which soon will be winging their way to Grimy Times to have the beige corrected and to be renamed and renumbered in my desired ECML-correct specs.

 

to summarise, options are as follows in no particular order:

 

1. remotor using the diesel-trains motor, although their website seems to have stopped working

2. remotor using Black Beetle or similar (expensive, would require at leats 4 bogies to pull a full rake)

3. remotor using modified Bachmann Class 25 (significant work, requires 2 motors, requires difficult to obtain parts such as 158 worm gears and Warship wheels in order to get it working properly)

4. remotor using the new Hornby HST chassis (I tried this and it does not look like it's easy)

5. remotor using Class 158 in the buffet car

6. *new suggestion not previously mentioned* remotor using old CD/DVD drive http://web.onetel.net.uk/~johndent/ringfield.html

[Neal Ball]

That's a shame, I was hoping you had a solution there!

 

back to the drawing board I guess!

[sub39h]

your wording makes it sound as if you were following this hoping to follow what i'd done? if that's the case I would strongly advise you buy a Hornby HST set to begin with. for the amount of time and effort it would require to fix a Lima HST you would be better off getting the Hornby one. don't get me wrong, I have had the two models side by side and the Lima one really is very good, especially considering it's age - BUT just some of the finer details you get with the Hornby model make it worth it.

 

if you're on a budget, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a remotored Lima HST if you do what I've done on some of mine and gone around the light surrounds with a silver marker pen they look 90% the part of the Hornby ones at a fraction of the price. but if like me you're hoping to pull full rakes potentially up inclines and want to add sound at a later date it's just easier to go with the Hornby model from the outset. once you've got an all wheel drive chassis, modified it to fit (including impossible to obtain parts), added a light bar and detailed the cabin (and remember you'd have to do it twice), you'd probably have saved money going for a lightly used Hornby HST set like I did. 

 

photo of the silver detail I've added to one of the Lima HST lights. this is the train set version I practiced on. I did it on the separately available higher detail Lima 43s and it looks even better:

 

Edited May 25, 2013 by sub39h

[Marcyg]

What does makes the face of a Lima HST look better, is to paint the light housing black. Looks far better.

 

[sub39h]

Just a further update to this and something worth considering - Hornby VEP bogies seem to be around the right dimensions (wheelbase 34.25mm, wheel diameter 13.5mm) and are available fairly inexpensively. Would have to fabricate a new mounting point, but could put one in each end and that should give it enough grunt to pull an entire train (i am basing this on one VEP being 4 cars and having a single motor bogie - so 2 motor bogies should be able to pull a full 2+8 train i'd imagine but I have no experience of this) 

[Gwiwer]

I have the Hornby (Lima-style) "Merlin" livery HST in 2+8 formation and which runs around a hilly layout on DC when driven with a little care.  It still has its original pancake motor and benefits from the addition of 200g of lead inside the power car which has imprived traction no end.  In respect of the additional weight I don't run it for hours on end but it is quite happy to be warmed up for a couple of laps then be left to its own devices for several minutes.

 

I looked at various remotoring options including Black Beetle and BullAnt.  In the end I opted to leave things be simply because it worked well enough and I had no guarantee that spending money would make it work better.

[Neal Ball]

I have the Hornby (Lima-style) "Merlin" livery HST in 2+8 formation and which runs around a hilly layout on DC when driven with a little care.  It still has its original pancake motor and benefits from the addition of 200g of lead inside the power car which has imprived traction no end.  In respect of the additional weight I don't run it for hours on end but it is quite happy to be warmed up for a couple of laps then be left to its own devices for several minutes.

 

I looked at various remotoring options including Black Beetle and BullAnt.  In the end I opted to leave things be simply because it worked well enough and I had no guarantee that spending money would make it work better.

 

I have now taken the plunge..... and bought a new Hornby Arriva Cross Country HST.

 

The donor motors and frame will now sit under the Lima Merlin liveried body. I've done the trailing power car, although I had problems with the light clusters. I will next start on the Power car.

 

A photo of the different liveried Power Cars is on my Wharncliffe page: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67477-wharncliffe-junction-gwr-in-the-1930s/page-7

 

I will take photos of the next conversion and post over the weekend.

[GarrettTheThief]

I did a mod to a Lima set by removing the motor from the power car and putting the chassis of a Bachmann 158 in the Restaurant car - it will happily move a 2+7 rake around on the flat.

 

Will it handle a 2+8 rake without any issues, especially if the coaches are the lighter Hornby ones?  Because if not, I might reserve these for the shorter HST formations I plan on building and shell out for another new Hornby Class 43 chassis.  Ideally, I won't have to do that due to its cost.  I'll have to wait and see I guess.

[Rhydgaled]

Hornby did an HST in GWT Merlin with the old power cars - I have a 2+8 rake.

 

I did a mod to a Lima set by removing the motor from the power car and putting the chassis of a Bachmann 158 in the Restaurant car - it will happily move a 2+7 rake around on the flat.

 

Adrian

Hornby didn't do the version of Merlin livery with INTERCITY on the coaches though, as far as I know. The Hornby ones I've seen all have 'Great Western' at both ends of the coaches.

 

 

I know this topic's a year old, but there seems to be an ommision from the list of possibilities, which I thought should be addressed for furture reference:

i have totally abandoned this now and purchased 2 of the Hornby HSTs which soon will be winging their way to Grimy Times to have the beige corrected and to be renamed and renumbered in my desired ECML-correct specs.

 

to summarise, options are as follows in no particular order:

 

1. remotor using the diesel-trains motor, although their website seems to have stopped working

2. remotor using Black Beetle or similar (expensive, would require at leats 4 bogies to pull a full rake)

3. remotor using modified Bachmann Class 25 (significant work, requires 2 motors, requires difficult to obtain parts such as 158 worm gears and Warship wheels in order to get it working properly)

4. remotor using the new Hornby HST chassis (I tried this and it does not look like it's easy)

5. remotor using Class 158 in the buffet car

6. *new suggestion not previously mentioned* remotor using old CD/DVD drive http://web.onetel.net.uk/~johndent/ringfield.html

 

The option is there of using the new Hornby super-detail chassis, but what about the Railroad one? Doesn't that have a new chassis and motor but uses the old Lima body? If so, would it be possible to source the Railroad chassis, motor (and bogies, if they are different) as spares and use an old Lima body on the new chassis? Assuming the Railroad body is exactly the same as the Lima one, that sounds alot easier than most of the other options and probably alot cheaper than the new super-detail Hornby model.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Rhydgaled

[sub39h]

You're absolutely right, except only one RailRoad HST was produced - R2707 in Virgin livery and I'll bet you a shiny penny you can't find one

[Derekstuart]

Nice (old) thread...

 

another option- axle mounted motors. There are a few sites that detail how to do this. Whether you could gear them to 125mph is another question...

 

Can I suggest that there are bigger problems with the Lima HST power cars (and this is someone who is definately PRO recycling Lima).

- The light lenses are pretty poor- painting the innards black helps, but doesn't cure the problem.

- The grill should really be see through- making a new grill would be a challenge for even a skilled modeller (possible, but tedious)

- My least favourite job- cutting a new window in the former guards compartment (which most ECML PC's had)

 

That said, as James W said earlier, the Lima model captures the look pretty good.

[Derekstuart]

BTW you will hear horror stories about Lima (or Hornby?) HST's derailing when under power from the rear when going over points.

 

I'm sure the real ones would perform very similar if they were under full power leaving a station such as Kings Cross.

[Downendian]

Recent Hornby HST chassis crop up on ebay a fair bit - I've picked three up now for around £40-50. They (almost scarily) directly fit the Lima body and all is needed is some form of attachment.

The new Hornby power cars are very expensive and this makes a completely acceptable alternative and having a modern power unit under an old Lima model is I think the way to go if you're wanting to repowering your Lima models.

Hornby model (unaltered) to the front, Lima on Hornby chassis to the rear. Guess which one has the correct engine exhausts?

 

Neil

Edited February 23, 2015 by Downendian