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Bachmann 64xx Panniers

Mikkel

By Mikkel,
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gwrrob

gwrrob

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Right, not your favoured modelling period I know Nick but a spot of delving in the library (well the dining room bookshelves to be honest) has produced the following as definitely lined green on both the cabside sheets and the tanks  (the dates quoted are the date of the photo); all are late crest unless otherwise noted :

 

6400 April 1961,   6412 January 1959,    6416 May 1962,   6418 ?August 1958,    6421,early crest October 1961,    6430  August 1962.

 

6403 was ex-works in black, with early crest in August 1956.

 

Anyone thats going to Ally Pally next weekend might care to look at the O gauge layout 82G.This has a lined green model of 6421 amongst their stock.Knowing the modellers here I'm sure its correct. ;)

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Captain Kernow

Captain Kernow

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Nice image - Speech House Road, in fact.

 

That special was fairly well documented, might just check the date in one of the books...

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gwrrob

gwrrob

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And now it doesn't look green - must check elsewhere as I think there are a couple of pics of that tour in various books.

 

Here she is again in April 1962  http://www.colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=11994

 

Again in April 1963 http://www.colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=311265

 

 

One for West Country modellers in the 50s is 6407 at Plymouth. http://www.colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=15914

 

Here's one especially for David Cheeseplant with 6429 leaving Aylesbury in 1959  http://www.colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=BRW372

 

Theres even one for our beloved Mikkel if his sidings project [Gloucester] can be set in the 60s http://www.colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=11994 ;)

Edited by gwrrob
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Coach bogie

Coach bogie

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Interesting letter in MREMag showing that in the 1950s, 75% of the class were in Wales.

 I assume the smaller wheels made them more suitable to local conditions.

 

in 1957

6400 Pontypool Road, 6401 Newport, 6402 Plymouth Laira, 6403 Stourbridge Junction, 6404 Oswestry, 6405 Oswestry, 6406 Plymouth Laira, 6407 Plymouth Laira, 6408 Merthyr, 6409 Newport, 6410 Abergavenny, 6411 Abercynon, 6412 Newport, 6413 Aberdare, 6414 Plymouth Laira, 6415 Newport, 6416 Merthyr, 6417 Aberdare, 6418 Wolverhampton, 6419 Plymouth Laira, 6420 Plymouth Laira, 6421 Plymouth Laira, 6422 Wolverhampton, 6423 Merthyr, 6424 Pontypool Road, 6425 Newport, 6426 Pontypool Road, 6427 Merthyr, 6428 Newport, 6429 Pontypool Road, 6430 Pontypool Road, 6431 Aberdare, 6432 Pontypool Road, 6433 Merthyr, 6434 Merthyr, 6435 Merthyr, 6436 Merthyr, 6437 Aberdare, 6438 Abercynon, 6439 Pontypool Road,        

      

In comparison the 54XX only 16% in Wales, the balance in English allocations but 5409 was not an WR engine at this time.

5400 Carmarthen 5401 Oswestry, 5402 Westbury, 5403 Westbury, 5404 Banbury, 5405 Oswestry, 5406 Westbury, 5407 Banbury, 5408 Not Allocated 5409 Neasden, 5410 Southall, 5411 Taunton, 5412 Exeter, 5413 Oxford, 5415 Southall, 5416 Yeovil, 5417 Gloucester, 5418 Gloucester, 5419 Westbury, 5420 Southall, 5421 Taunton, 5422 Westbury, 5423 Westbury, 5424 Banbury,

To complete the picture in 1953 fifteen small prairies were auto fitted, all allocated to Wales and would be appropraite for the new Bachamann Autocoach (5555 already produced)

 

4578 Barry, 4580 Cardiff Cathays, 4581 Cardiff Cathays, 4598 Cardiff Cathays, 5511 Treherbert, 5524 Tondu, 5527 Barry, 5529 Barry, 5534 Barry, 5545 Tondu, 5555 Tondu, 5560 Tondu, 5568 Cardiff Cathays, 5572 Cardiff Cathays, 5574 Tondu,

Mike Wiltshire.

 

Edited trying to make tables appear correctly but failing miserably

Edited by Coach bogie
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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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Interesting letter in MREMag showing that in the 1950s, 75% of the class were in Wales.

Dammit - my long term plotting has been revealed!  I'm surprised no one had tumbled previously as to why I have been so keen to see their appearance in a model to modern standards.

 

They were indeed basically always a very predominantly Welsh allocated class, and mainly South Wales at that.  In 1948 only 11 were at English sheds and by 1951 that had declined to 8 with just one at Banbury while Laira (their other long time base since their early days) had 7.  The latter depot had dropped back to 6 in 1954 while the only other English allocated one was at Stafford Road with the rest at Welsh sheds (including Pontypool Road) and of those in Wales all but 2 were in the south of the country.  By 1957 the English allocation had increased by one with 2 at Stafford Road but they started to spread a bit further as dieselisation and line closures reduced their numbers, of the 26 still in traffic in 1960 only 15 were at Welsh sheds, all in South Wales.

 

The 74Xx were always a more widely distributed class than the 64XX with examples, sometimes in small numbers, in all the motive power Districts well into the 1950s.

 

(Figures are as at 1st January of the year quoted and are taken from Hugh Longworth's book)

 

BTW referring to Mike Wiltshire's post above Neasden/Marylebone was under WR control in 1957 (transferring with the rest of the ex GC route to the LMR in 1958).

Edited by The Stationmaster
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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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Mike - your cunning imperial plan is unlikely to encounter significant dissent - 75% of just about everything (G)WR was in Wales.

Spot on Miss P  (but it does also explain why I'm never among the hordes clamouring for a 47XX - a class which was never permitted access to the southern part of the Principality although they were allowed into the country north of Gobowen although I'm always happy to support others in their quests).

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Coach bogie

Coach bogie

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BTW referring to Mike Wiltshire's post above Neasden/Marylebone was under WR control in 1957 (transferring with the rest of the ex GC route to the LMR in 1958).

When did it become WR?

I do not have too much info on that area but the snippets to hand suggest Neasdon was ER. Aylesbury ceased to be WR and a subshed of Southall 81B on 18/6/50 becoming a subshed of Neasden reclassified 34E. On 1/2/58 Neasden became LMR reclssified as 14D. 5409 & 1473 both receiving the new 14D shed plates.

 

Mike Wiltshire

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Darwinian

Darwinian

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I'm fairly certain that I read somewhere (Holcroft?) that when first buiit a 54xx was tried in the welsh valleys, that's my excuse for having 5414. However they never really took off in the hilly country and the 64xx proved much more suitable. 

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David Bigcheeseplant

David Bigcheeseplant

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"When did it become WR?

I do not have too much info on that area but the snippets to hand suggest Neasdon was ER. Aylesbury ceased to be WR and a subshed of Southall 81B on 18/6/50 becoming a subshed of Neasden reclassified 34E. On 1/2/58 Neasden became LMR reclssified as 14D. 5409 & 1473 both receiving the new 14D shed plates.

Mike Wiltshire2

 

The western 14XX and 54XX never ever got any where close to Neasden they were Banbury engines that were subsheded at Aylesbury which itself was a subshed of Neasden hence the shedplates.

 

The only GWR locos to get sheded at Neasden were large praries 6129 & 6166 which worked into Marylebone when it did go to Western Region breifly in 1949 The Great Central men didn't like them and they got based at Aylesbury

Edited by David Bigcheeseplant
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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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When did it become WR?

I do not have too much info on that area but the snippets to hand suggest Neasdon was ER. Aylesbury ceased to be WR and a subshed of Southall 81B on 18/6/50 becoming a subshed of Neasden reclassified 34E. On 1/2/58 Neasden became LMR reclssified as 14D. 5409 & 1473 both receiving the new 14D shed plates.

 

Mike Wiltshire

April 02 1950 (at which time Aylesbury transferred to the LMR - basically the section north of Rickmansworth inclusive went to the LMR at that time).  The WR took over the whole of the southern end of the GC south of the bit which went to London Transport plus the section from Northolt Jcn to Neasden of course.

 

Quite how the technical aspects of loco sheds was managed might be rather different and I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of Eastern control was still exercised over Neasden depot although it was within another Region's territory - such practice was not unknown of course.  However the railway itself, and its operation, was under WR control and the Region clearly exercised some technical control as some Western signals were installed at Marylebone. 

Edited by The Stationmaster
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Coach bogie

Coach bogie

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I'm fairly certain that I read somewhere (Holcroft?) that when first buiit a 54xx was tried in the welsh valleys, that's my excuse for having 5414. However they never really took off in the hilly country and the 64xx proved much more suitable. 

5411, new from Swindon to Southall, then after a short time, transferred to Cardiff for trials in the valleys. Remained at Cardiff Cathays until replaced by 6411 when completed in Nov 1934.5411 then moved on to Westbury

 

Mike Wiltshire

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Darwinian

Darwinian

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5411, new from Swindon to Southall, then after a short time, transferred to Cardiff for trials in the valleys. Remained at Cardiff Cathays until replaced by 6411 when completed in Nov 1934.5411 then moved on to Westbury

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Thanks Mike, guess in my parallel universe I'll have to claim the management sent two :locomotive: .

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Brinkly

Brinkly

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Any ideas how to model a A27 though? Maybe shortening the Airfix model?

 

Hi Brian,

 

I have looked into this possibility, although there is a lot of work needed to rebuild the Airfix model into an A27 and until I photocopy both diagrams I can't be sure of this. 

 

However, looking at the drawings with the diagrams of the A27 & A28 it might be possible to use parts of the coach such as the ends, and perform a 'cut & shut' on the roof & chassis, and scratch build the sides from plasticard, which wouldn't be too bad as natural cutting points would be in these areas. 

 

The main difference is that the A27 is 59' 6" over the headstocks and the A28 62' 6 1/2" over the headstocks. There are some measurement which is the same on both diagrams is the luggage compartment, which is 6' 6 3/4" on both vehicles, the passenger doorway 3' 9" and the driving compartment 3' 9" so these part could be used, which would save a lot of work! 

 

Looking at the diagrams working from the luggage ends working towards the drivers cab, the luggage compartments are both the same (6' 6 3/4"), the rear passenger compartment on an A27 is 10' 1 1/4" and A28 10' 9 1/4", difference of 8' making 3mm difference in 4mm scale.

The doorway on both vehicles are the same 3' 9".

Then the main difference is the main passenger compartment. A27 33' 5" and A28 35' 11", a difference of 2' 6', 10mm in 4mm scale.

Again the driving compartment is the same 3' 9". 

 

I will report back once I have investigated further. Tomorrow I will have a go at drawing the position of the windows on a sheet of graph paper and see whether the Airfix coach can be used as a starting point.

 

Regards,

 

Nick

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chrisf

chrisf

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No. 6435, 1960, BR early crest, - if you don't like this scene you're not human :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/8428258962/

 

I should have looked at this earlier. Well done Mikkel for finding it. The working is the penultimate of the [perhaps] legendary St Fagans Pullman. Through clever diagramming an Abercynon-based auto was able to provide the bulk of the service on the old Barry Railway main line and make a useful contribution to the Cardiff to Penarth suburban service. The service lasted another two years and was perhaps not the most lucrative way of using a 3 car dmu.

 

What is all this "taffytank" nonsense in the link btw?!

 

Chris

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