RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 14, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2013 I thought I'd start a thread on these and the Hornby release to show the diagrams and give a link to a page of allocations for those who may wish to renumber and rename either version of the model. http://www.gwr.org.uk/noshunters.html Bachmann Canons Marsh,Bristol. 38-675 Bachmann Newton Abbot 38-676 .NA had four of these at one time but not the same diagram. Bachmann Old Oak Common 38-677 Hornby's version was mentioned here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66031-hornbys-gwr-shunter-truck/ Prototype in action with 3738. http://www.flickr.com/photos/26465928@N02/2634361321/ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Thank you for the reference. I must admit I was surprised to see Bachmann offer a shunter's truck two months after Hornby announced their own! Are the two offering the same diagram? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 16, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2013 Judging by the number on Bachmanns Canons Marsh of 41736 then its a diagram M3 built in 1912-14.Newton Abbots will be 41734 by my reckoning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2013 Judging by the number on Bachmanns Canons Marsh of 41736 then its a diagram M3 built in 1912-14.Newton Abbots will be 41734 by my reckoning. Assuming that the preserved one they might be copying really was one from Cannons Marsh and is correctly numbered and lettered 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 There are some detail differences between the various shunters truck M diagrams, but nothing a little book and diagram research can't solve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2013 There are some detail differences between the various shunters truck M diagrams, but nothing a little book and diagram research can't solve. Regrettably Shunters Trucks are not covered in my newly acquired diagram book for 'special vehicles' (but 20 ton coal wagons are ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) There's a good GA of diagram M1 (initially fitted with lever brakes, but soon retrofitted with Dean-Churchward) and an M4 underframe in the 'Bible', plus plenty of pictures. Buffer types, brake details and handrails varied over time, but I would suggest an M2, M3 or M4, with DCIII brakes, would be a good long-timespread choice. Hornby's new specimen is an M4 or M5 with an M1 number. (Credit in a way to Hornby, though, because M1's 41886 really was at Gloucester Old Yard in 1944.) Edited March 16, 2013 by Miss Prism 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2013 Final Bachmann item of today's conversation! Three samples, undecorated, were on show and while possibly not yet at final stage (metal lamp brackets for example) looked good but have not yet been fully checked over as they only arrived from China yesterday evening. I was at least able to make the point about BR livery - an area where it seems they were unsure but had the impression that it was darker than grey from photos they've looked at. So black the BR versions will be, with yellow lettering and hopefully that will achieve the right 'dirty rich yellow' shade on the originals. Idid add that possibly some of the BR ones had white lettering at some stage but I think the one in production is going to be yellow from our chat. And not only do they look good but they are seemingly not too far away and might even be here by Warley (that was not a promise!). And oh what a contrast with Hornby where fobbing-off 'have a look in the showcase to see what it will be like' was what I was told when I asked about the BR livery 72XX 9 but that's another thread, and it wasn't there anyway). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'm not convinced by the black livery being suggested for BR. My childhood recollections are very hazy, and to be honest, even if the things had black or grey paint underneath, they all looked uniformly dingy and dirty. I had assumed the BR livery would be standard grey unfitted, or standard bauxite for the few through-piped specimens. If they were black, that would indicate they were considered 'engineering' wagons. Was this so? The yellow lettering doesn't ring true either, but I suppose it depends what one means by 'yellow' - I think the more accurate colour for engineering wagon insignia was a pale cream. Perhaps Paul Bartlett can shed some light on this matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) For a complete history on the shunters trucks, John Lewis published an outstanding 5 part series in Great Western Journal numbers 19, 21, 24, 26 & 29, including diagram differences, allocations etc. Mike Wiltshire Edited March 23, 2013 by Coach bogie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'm not convinced by the black livery being suggested for BR. My childhood recollections are very hazy, and to be honest, even if the things had black or grey paint underneath, they all looked uniformly dingy and dirty. I had assumed the BR livery would be standard grey unfitted, or standard bauxite for the few through-piped specimens. If they were black, that would indicate they were considered 'engineering' wagons. Was this so? The yellow lettering doesn't ring true either, but I suppose it depends what one means by 'yellow' - I think the more accurate colour for engineering wagon insignia was a pale cream. Perhaps Paul Bartlett can shed some light on this matter. They were indeed departmental wagons Miss P - hence the 'OD' branding (which meant Operating Department of course - as opposed to, say, ED for Engineering Department). Having stood right next to a couple of them in Reading West Junction Yard during most hours of the 24 back in the late 1960s they were very definitely black beneath the grime. In fact in places there wasn't too much grime because Shunters riding on the footboards brushed against the wagon and any loose dirt tended to be 'brushed' off leaving relatively clean and shiny patches. I don't doubt that at some time some might have been lettered in white but my recollection of the markings is that they usually tended to be grubby because they were within the channel of the solebar and thus didn't get the brushing against them that happened on some areas. All the wooden areas were presumably unpainted as there never seemed to be any trace of paint on them - just well weathered timber. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Perhaps Paul Bartlett can shed some light on this matter. No way, far too young, you expect too much of me. The few I saw were black, as others far older than me have said, they were engineers wagons. I do wonder if any were gulf red or olive green? Paul Bartlett 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 25, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Bachmann are planning to do the M3 & M4 types with upright and sloping handrail types. http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=102&vis=2 Edited March 25, 2013 by gwrrob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2013 Bachmann are planning to do the M3 & M4 types with upright and sloping handrail types. http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=102&vis=2 2 x GWR Versions - Fab! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted March 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Just had a look at these on Hattons website. The Newton Abbot lettered one (38-676) is advertised as 'Newton Abbott (2 't's). Checking Bachmann's site thankfully it's listed as one 't'. Cheers, Mark Edited March 26, 2013 by 46444 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) I have to say that the example displayed via Flickr is not an original GWR Shunter truck. The shunter truck (100377) at Didcot is a former GWR Mink A Van that was converted in the Shunter truck form that it is today in 1953. Assuming that the preserved one they might be copying really was one from Cannons Marsh and is correctly numbered and lettered The 41736 example which is shown in the catalogue and is one of my photos I took, is an original built in 1913 to diagram M3 and now owned by the 813 Fund on the Severn Valley Railway. From what it says on the 813 Website, 47136 was originally allocated to Canons Marsh Bristol and was moved from Bristol around 1973 so it is quite certain that it is a shunter truck that was originally allocated to that area. Garethp8873 Edited March 29, 2013 by Garethp8873 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Bachmann's new engineering sample images look very tasty. They've even cranked the DC handle! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2013 Bachmann's new engineering sample images look very tasty. They've even cranked the DC handle! They were the ones on display at Ally Pally - and while they look nice in those pics they look even better 'in the plastic'. Hard luck Margate. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Hard luck Margate.Indeed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted April 5, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2013 Indeed. Snooze and you lose. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted April 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2013 It's interesting to compare these shots with the Hornby photos. Off-hand the Bachmann version looks impressive with separate lamp irons etc, but - and maybe it's just me - the Bachmann step boards look more chunky than the Hornby ones? http://www.Hornby.com/shop/2013-range/wagons/r6642-gwr-shunters-truck-acton/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Very pleasing to see them doing the M3 and M4 diagram rather than just the one diagram. This is Hornby's folly doing just the sloping handrails. Once again Bachmann has nailed another piece of rolling stock perfectly! I will be getting both companies models so it will be interesting to compare both versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Unpainted engineering samples of the shunters' truck are available.There are pictures on Bachmann's website. 'Upright' and 'sloping' handrails are clearly visible. EDIT: I'm at a loss as to how I missed this post above. Invisible ink I suppose. Edited April 9, 2013 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flapland Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 It's interesting to compare these shots with the Hornby photos. Off-hand the Bachmann version looks impressive with separate lamp irons etc, but - and maybe it's just me - the Bachmann step boards look more chunky than the Hornby ones? http://www.Hornby.com/shop/2013-range/wagons/r6642-gwr-shunters-truck-acton/ The step boards do look more chunky but I suspect also less likely to fall off. I think this is an area Hornby have gone to fine on in the past. The footboards on my Hornby coaches are very very fragile especially for an area likely to get grabbed during re-railing. A number of fallen off never to be found. Sorry for going slightly off topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) The footboards on the Bachmann samples look right to me - the prototypes had some pretty solid footboards as they got a lot of heavy use not only carrying 2 or 3 men on one side of the vehicle at a time but also men jumping on & off including, no doubt, some with well studded boots To be honest the view of the Hornby computer generated image makes it very difficult for me to judge the thickness of the (strangely coloured) footboards and is probably no more than an approximation of what the finished vehicle will look like in any case. Edited April 6, 2013 by The Stationmaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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