A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[gwrrob]

Am I correct in saying this is the longest name on any Great Western nameplate and is this an original kept at Steam, Swindon.

 

 

[colin penfold]

Am I correct in saying this is the longest name on any Great Western nameplate and is this an original kept at Steam, Swindon.

 

 

5069 IKB nameplate.jpg

Izzy looks different without his hat on

[Clearwater]

A few years ago, I discovered you could get full size plates made by a company called Newton Replicas (usual disclaimers). Given an original Castle plate would be £20k+ at auction, I persuaded Mrs C that commissioning one was a cost effective route. I asked for IKB but they said their template moulds couldn’t cope with that many letters!

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

Am I correct in saying this is the longest name on any Great Western nameplate and is this an original kept at Steam, Swindon.

 

 

5069 IKB nameplate.jpg

 

I think this one would outdo IKB if it was all on one line -

 

http://everythinggwr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/10411182_187093458301629_2107215591238017115_n.jpg

[Andy M]

Am I correct in saying this is the longest name on any Great Western nameplate and is this an original kept at Steam, Swindon.

 

I’m sure I read somewhere that ‘Knight of the Golden Fleece’ was the longest single line plate. The Castle ‘The Gloucestershire Regiment 28th 61st’ has more characters, but split over multiple lines.

 

All those plates are real Rob, smashing aren’t they!

 

Regards,

Andy.

[The Fatadder]

One day I’d really like to get a replica of nunny castles plates, having proposed to my wife at the castle I keep thinking it would make a good aniversary gift for her (then think better of it)

[Captain Kernow]

Am I correct in saying this is the longest name on any Great Western nameplate and is this an original kept at Steam, Swindon.

 

 

5069 IKB nameplate.jpg

Have Steam done some deal with Tussauds now?

[gwrrob]

Have Steam done some deal with Tussauds now?

 

Are you calling me a dummy then CK   

[The Stationmaster]

This is a dummy

 

 

 

[bgman]

Are you calling me a dummy then CK 

 

Well, I've looked at that photograph several times now and you ain't moved an inch !

[Coach bogie]

 is this an original kept at Steam, Swindon.

 

 

5069 IKB nameplate.jpg

 Sort of. The ORIGINAL, looked like this

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-WR3-7-e-chaplin-closeup.jpg

 

You can see why it was replaced with the second version at Swindon.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[cary hill]

 

I’m sure I read somewhere that ‘Knight of the Golden Fleece’ was the longest single line plate.

 

All those plates are real Rob, smashing aren’t they!

 

Regards,

Andy.

 

Some of the letters seem a bit undernourished on that particular nameplate.

 

 

I'd have liked to see them struggle to fit in a full fat 'George Jackson Churchward' instead of wimping out with 'G.J.Churchward'.

 

The only Castle with full stops apparently.

 

I think they managed his full name on D1664/47079 until he got shortened again in 1979.

Edited February 26, 2018 by cary hill

[westerner]

Was George Jackson Churchward a longer plate. I must admit to not counting letters.

[County of Yorkshire]

Has anyone ever seen the Hall Class nameplate 'Sweet Eff'?

 

CoY

[Andy M]

Was George Jackson Churchward a longer plate. I must admit to not counting letters.

You can see the abbreviated original plate for this one, on the far right of Rob’s picture.

[gwrrob]

You can see the abbreviated original plate for this one, on the far right of Rob’s picture.

 

Yes and I wonder why there was never a Collett or Hawksworth plate made after all they were CME's too. Was it a timing thing.

[Andy M]

Yes and I wonder why there was never a Collett or Hawksworth plate made after all they were CME's too. Was it a timing thing.

I believe both were considered when deciding upon the names for the last batch of Castles. Collett was a quite shy and insular man who avoided the spotlight whenever possible. Some sources say he even politely declined a Knighthood just prior to the end of his tenure as CME.

Shame really as they would have made a wonderful set.

[bgman]

Heads up for this -

 

'The Yorkshire Steam Railway: All Aboard', a three part documentary series, airs on Friday 2nd, 9th & 16th March 2018 at 8pm. The Channel 5 programme will take you behind the scenes as the railway celebrates their fiftieth anniversary year.

 

G

[7007GreatWestern]

Yes and I wonder why there was never a Collett or Hawksworth plate made after all they were CME's too. Was it a timing thing.

 

 

The timing is interesting. 7017 "G.J. Churchward" was one of the batch of Castles built immediately after Nationalisation. So, it was British Railways Western Region, not the GWR that honoured Churchward.

 

Collett retired in 1941 but didn't pass away until 1952. Maybe the justification (excuse?) in 1948 for not naming a loco after him is that it was an honour only granted posthumously?

 

If Collett was asked if he would like to be so honoured, I am not surprised that he declined. I base that on the insights into his character provided by J.E. Chacksfield's biography "C.B. Collett - A Competent Succesor". Collett was an enigma. He could be awkwardly stiff and formal at times (*) but at the same time hated pomposity. I think that having a locomotive named after him would not have "sat well" with his dislike of self-importance. Also it is important to bear in mind that Collett was for the most part emotionally detached from the life of the company. Unlike Churchward who threw himself wholeheartedly into the life of the GWR and to the community of Swindon (He was the town's first Lord Mayor while working for the company), Collett had as little to do with either as he could manage outside working hours. In the months leading up to his retirement he bought a house in Wimbledon unbeknownst to almost everyone in the company. Upon his retirement he resigned his professional memberships (Institutes of Civil and Mechanical Engineering) and moved immediately to Wimbledon. He then severed his connections with the world of railways completely. Almost nothing is known about his final years except that he threw himself into his real passions, Spiritualism and Metaphysics.

 

All the above assumes that Collett WAS offered to have a locomotive named after him. If no such offer was made one would have to wonder why. Chacksfield's book makes a remarkable claim that may or may not be relevant (or indeed accurate). On Page 144 of the book Chacksfield says that it was rumoured that M15 were investigating Collett because of his belligerent opposition to the GWR taking on addition 'war work' (ie non-railway work such as production of munitions). That the GWR yielded to the demands of the Government Ministries was due to the Board overruling Collett! Maybe that incident from the early part of the war was still in people's minds in 1948?

 

The above may be nothing more than a juicy bit of workplace gossip, but there is no doubt in my mind that Collett was not regarded at Swindon with anything like the respect or affection felt toward Churchward. GJG died crossing the tracks from his house into the works to "check up on things" eleven years AFTER his retirement! He lived, ate and breathed the GWR. C.B. Collett on the other hand did NOT and those in positions of influence in the company knew it.

 

One final, amusing point. The Great Western DID in fact name something in honour of Collett - a road! Collett Avenue is to be found in the Rodbourne area of Swindon and the "honour" was bestowed upon him while he was still in office in 1938.

 

*An anecdote about Collet's formality from Chacksfield's book:- There is a story of Collet and Churchward visiting a boiler shop at Swindon that was lit by portable gas flares connected to the mains by a flexible pipe. "Collett turned to a chargehand and said 'Fetch me an illuminant'. This request was met with a blank stare. Churchward stepped briskly forward and called "Bill, bring a bloody gas!". Collett spent much of his career failing to communicate with the ARLE, the individual CMEs of other railways and even his own Drawing Office staff. It seems his efforts on the shop floor were little better!

 

Andy.

[Clearwater]

Andy's comment around Collett's opposition to war work is interesting- if i recall correctly, Collett's OBE for his management of Swindon Works during the Great War.

 

On spirituality, I understand it was quite big in the 1920s with families understandably wishing to try to communicate with their sons lost in WW1. I know Collett's wife died young but did they have children? If so, they'd be about the age to have been called up in WW1. Not inconceivable he lost a child in the war. Combining the two and you can see why he'd be interested in spiritualism. A contrast to Churchward who doesn't seem to have had a family.

 

We're all passionate about railways and the GWR in particular. It's sometimes easy to forget that for some people it's just a job. Perhaps that's why Collett was successful, he wasn't egotistical enough to insist on his own designs, cf Thompson, but built on what was already there and delivered motive power that worked until the end of steam on the Western. Unfussy, unshowy but got the job done

 

David.

[7007GreatWestern]

Andy's comment around Collett's opposition to war work is interesting- if i recall correctly, Collett's OBE for his management of Swindon Works during the Great War.

 

On spirituality, I understand it was quite big in the 1920s with families understandably wishing to try to communicate with their sons lost in WW1. I know Collett's wife died young but did they have children? If so, they'd be about the age to have been called up in WW1. Not inconceivable he lost a child in the war. Combining the two and you can see why he'd be interested in spiritualism. A contrast to Churchward who doesn't seem to have had a family.

 

We're all passionate about railways and the GWR in particular. It's sometimes easy to forget that for some people it's just a job. Perhaps that's why Collett was successful, he wasn't egotistical enough to insist on his own designs, cf Thompson, but built on what was already there and delivered motive power that worked until the end of steam on the Western. Unfussy, unshowy but got the job done

 

David.

 

Hi David,

 

Regarding Collett's opposition to additional war work being taken on in World War II: Collett cited the disruption and run down in railway stock he had experienced during the first conflict as the reason why the railway should not do the same in the second. Apparently the "Men from the Ministry" were not impressed by his argument!

 

Regarding the part Spiritualism played in Collett's life: You're (almost) bang-on! Collett's wife Ethelwyn died of kidney failure in 1923. They had married in 1896 and were childless. Collett it is said was utterly devastated. Weight fell away from him and he grew "thin and wasted." He became increasingly cut-off from colleagues at Swindon and all talk about anything other than work was prohibited in his presence. He never fully recovered from the loss and as you say Spiritualism was part of his way of coping.

 

After the loss of his wife he immersed himself in medical text books. Apparently became both very knowledgable and dismissive of conventional medicine. Later in his life he claimed to have cured himself of cancer by strict abstinence and dieting. Chacksfield speculates that Collett blamed the medical fraternity for failing to save his wife, hence his embracing of what we would call today "alternative medicine".

 

I hope the above is not too depressing for this normaly jocular 'organ' and that some insight into the man behind the designs are of interest. 

 

Andy.

[St Enodoc]

One day I’d really like to get a replica of nunny castles plates, having proposed to my wife at the castle I keep thinking it would make a good aniversary gift for her (then think better of it)

Fresh Brixham fish at the George afterwards?

[St Enodoc]

Has anyone ever seen the Hall Class nameplate 'Sweet Eff'?

 

CoY

King's Cross Models (I think) used to do a sample engraved plate for 7930 That's Hall.

[Limpley Stoker]

King's Cross Models (I think) used to do a sample engraved plate for 7930 That's Hall.

Don’t forget Evenin’

 

Back to minimalist posts after some serious education.

[2ManySpams]

Don’t forget Evenin’

 

Back to minimalist posts after some serious education.

 

Yup.