SECR Birdcage Coaches

[miles73128]

As far s I can see there is not even a hint of a delivery date, so I think we can expect them sometime in 2014. I am not even sure that a RRP has yet been set. 

 

As someone else who missed the C Class, the best I can suggest is to pre-order with your local supplier.  Normally they will not take any money until the models arrive.

Given all the current delivery delays in China, I think 2015 would be a better assessment. I'd guess Q2 or Q3 2015.

[Andy Hayter]

You may well be right, but I am surprised that while Hornby get all sorts of flak for this there is no such flak for Bachmann.

 

I do not blame either of them but the different levels of expectation seems strange to me as a recently returned to UK prototype modeller.

In France I am used to adding a year or two to an anticipated delivery date.

[orcadian]

They are, after all, models of  'Slow, Easy and Careful' stock, so they'll be here when they get here!

 

It's a gamble, I suppose. Pre-order and hope that they are up to Bachmann's usual high standard; pre-order and hope your retailer is still in business when they come; wait for them to arrive and hope that they don't instantly sell out of stock before you see and buy.

 

I think I'll go along 'Route 1' - perhaps I'm easily satisfied, but they'll be the best Birdcage coaches I can get at that sort of price level!

That, to me, seems the best way of being sure of getting any particular model nowadays, and unless it turns out to be an absolute lemon, future changes of mind seem to be movable through the various 'pre-owned' routes. (Even Lima locos can be resold!!)

 

Richard

[FelixM]

Vermillion Red seems to be much different to BR Crimson. Good photograph here (but not of Birdcage Coaches I'm afraid): http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8502068681/

 

Felix

[coachmann]

I would never find a plausible excuse for dragging a Birdcage brake from't Saath over to Yorkie in the early 1950's, but as a comfirmed coachaholic there'll sure as heck be one on the shelf atop the computer.

[rejrob]

Hi all,When the wife watches soaps I retire to my railway in the loft which has only been going for 23 years(30ft x 9ft) which is pretty hectic especially when running five locos at once .Although I have pre ordered a set of the Vermillion bird cage set I do have a set already which was made 20 odd years ago using a Cove models kit which is now Roxey Mouldings.This set is of different coach lengths to Bachmann,s Dave at Roxey is very able to help if contemplating building a set.Mike Smith does plans for most SR(BR)  coaches and has written books on them His drawings also list the different sets and type of coach used The Vermillion was used right up to many sets being retired.They were hauled by all types of locos including Schools L1,D1 ,C,H all over the SE section and central Hope this info may be of use.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I would never find a plausible excuse for dragging a Birdcage brake from't Saath over to Yorkie in the early 1950's, but as a comfirmed coachaholic there'll sure as heck be one on the shelf atop the computer.

The Signal gang at Oswestry had some kind of pre grouping Southern coach as a Mess Van in the mid 1960s. It turned up at Saltley for one job around 1967. Not sure of the type as I couldn't afford much film in those days, and haven't managed to find a published picture of it.

[chris45lsw]

The Mess Van at Oswestry was probably an ex LSWR coach converted to a camping coach by the Southern Region.  Two were acquired by the WR following boundary changes and subsequently went into Departmental service with the WR & later LMR. 

 

Regarding the Birdcages Bachmann describe them as Brake Third, Brake Compo and Compo but the Brake Compo was second/third class and became all third from early SR days onwards.  Although Bachmann are going to sell them separately the vast majority were indivisible 3-sets for all their lives - formed  BT, CL, BTL.  They had to be indivisible because only the CL had a dynamo and battery boxes to supply lighting to all three coaches though the SR found this insufficient and later fitted the BT with a dynamo & battery boxes as well but the BTL never had these.   

 

Set 600, however, was made up to 6 coaches around 1933/34 but was disbanded in 1941 and it was this set which provided the coaches for Pull Push sets 660 & 661.

 

Another point to note is that the arrangement of windows in the first class saloon of the CL was altered about half way through the build.  It remains to be seen which version Bachmann will choose - I hope it wil be the later type (diagram 316) which would, inter alia, be suitable to adapt for PP set 660.

 

While these birdcages and the 'long ten' ten compartment thirds were the same length the birdcages had 'Fox' pressed steel bogies while the 'long tens' had the later Maunsell/Lynes bogie which became the SR standard bogie.  And the Birdcage sets had turnbuckle truss rod while the 'long tens' had angle iron truss bars.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Rocking Shunter]

Does anyone know if they made it on to the S&DJR in BR days?

[bbishop]

Unlikely, the S&DR had the Maunsell/Lynes three coach corridor sets with 4 compartment brake thirds. Also the Bulleid 59' sets.

 

Bill

[Dunsignalling]

Given all the current delivery delays in China, I think 2015 would be a better assessment. I'd guess Q2 or Q3 2015.

A good rule of thumb in the past has been around 9 or 10 months after the EP sample appears in the magazines.

 

We haven't yet seen that and the current delays may well add to the timescale so I reckon your crystal ball is at least as good as anybody else's!

 

The way things are going, I expect a set to hit me for at least £150 by the time they do arrive so it gives me time to save up!

 

John  

[Guest spet0114]

Wasn't intending to buy a set of these, but after no. 271 came my way it was only a matter of time!

[Jenny Emily]

Still looking forward to these. Despite price increases, I still have an urge to buy the full set in SECR livery. Tim at Arcadia, if you're reading this, put me down for the full set in SECR livery!

[Anglian]

I'm intending to buy a set in SECR livery. I'm in no hurry and the wait gives me time to save up.

[autocoupler942]

This topic seems to be on 4mm items.

The proposed 2mm/N scale Birdcage set will no doubt have "heavy" frames to the lookout!

I still have stocks of etches for 2mm/ft 3-car short bodied Birdcage stock, 2 coach push-pull, Wainwright C and Wainwright H = what more could you need for a southern branch line that doesn't shout out of a box?

[JZ]

Does anyone know if they made it on to the S&DJR in BR days?

A set will no doubt find their way onto my S&D. To go with a Kernow 'gate' set at some time and a Roxey pull-push set when I get around to finishing it.

[Limpley Stoker]

At the start of this thread the Horsham to Guildford service in the late '50s was mentioned. I have unearthed a blurry picture I took of two coaches in the coach siding at Horsham in 1957 and wondered if they were part of a birdcage set. I vaguely remember them to be in vermillion.

[finelines]

I would never find a plausible excuse for dragging a Birdcage brake from't Saath over to Yorkie in the early 1950's, but as a confirmed coachaholic there'll sure as heck be one on the shelf atop the computer.

It's quite possible you could. My old pal David Hammersly at Roxey does a single corridor birdcage brake and I quote his description from his website:

 

Etched brass kit. SR Diag 425 Built in 1907 for through services to the Midland and other Railways. Later used as brake ends for longer sets through to BR days.

 

Roger

[pete_mcfarlane]

It makes in to a nice model. There's a photo of this coach (in a 2 coach Ashford-Hastings/New Romney set) at Birmingham Snow Hill in BR days, so they still wandered even as late as the 1950s.

 

[phil-b259]

At the start of this thread the Horsham to Guildford service in the late '50s was mentioned. I have unearthed a blurry picture I took of two coaches in the coach siding at Horsham in 1957 and wondered if they were part of a birdcage set. I vaguely remember them to be in vermillion.

As I said in another post, when it comes to local services the Brighton main line very much became the dividing line between ex SECR and ex LSWR stock. To the east birdcage stock and push pull fitted H tanks were the norm while to the west (and thus around Horsham) ex LSWR stock and push pull fitted M7s were prefered. Having said that various ex LBSCR tanks were still very much in evidence but thanks to LBSCR stock using the Westinghouse air brake system, most went for scrap with ex SECR and LSWR stock drafted in to fill the gap.

Edited December 31, 2014 by phil-b259

[Dunsignalling]

Just been having a quick look round the Bachmann website and noticed that, whilst there is not yet a projected release date, a price of £59-95 each is now listed.

 

John

[Richard Lee]

Thank you. 

 

They are still shown as £42.50 each on the eHattons website.  I understand that Bachmann requires retailers not to discount more than 15% of the suggested retail price for new items.  Have a feeling that the price that Hattons charge will rise quite a bit before they are released.

[RFS]

Thank you. 

 

They are still shown as £42.50 each on the eHattons website.  I understand that Bachmann requires retailers not to discount more than 15% of the suggested retail price for new items.  Have a feeling that the price that Hattons charge will rise quite a bit before they are released.

 

I think that requirement only applies for the first 8 weeks that they are on sale.  So, should one pre-order or wait for the fire sale? The Hornby 2-BILs started at £129 but can now be had for as little as £59.

[Dunsignalling]

I think that requirement only applies for the first 8 weeks that they are on sale.  So, should one pre-order or wait for the fire sale? The Hornby 2-BILs started at £129 but can now be had for as little as £59.

Always supposing there is a fire sale. My guess is they might short supply these to keep the prices firm. I'd like a set but it's not a priority item for me so I'll wait and see. 

 

As for the 2BiL, it's a nice enough model but of a prototype that holds no interest for me so it wouldn't matter if they were 59p.

 

John

Edited August 12, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Ozexpatriate]

As for the 2BiL, it's a nice enough model but of a prototype that holds no interest for me so it wouldn't matter if they were 59p. 

So you say. Were they actually 59p everyone and their dog would post suggestions about how they could be modified into something else with a little "modelling" and how they should be snapped up immediately!

Edited August 13, 2015 by Ozexpatriate