Another Level Crossing Crash

[4630]

Reported here:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-21873451

 

Tragic for all concerned.

 

 

[beast66606]

Network Rail said initial reports suggested the barrier was lowered and the driver tried to weave around them in order to cross.

 

One day people will learn that patience saves patients - or worse, as in this sad case.

[beast66606]

Crash site

 

http://goo.gl/maps/evtkH

[The Stationmaster]

We did look at a property within approx 100 yards from this level crossing.

Not a bad place to be as most of it around there stays above the usual flood level although it does become something of a ribbon shape island.

 

And what else can you say about the incident - it really is totally beyond my understanding that folk should attempt to zigzag around barriers - especially there, where 'delays' to road traffic are miniscule and can be counted in seconds.

[Black Sheep]

and if you were to read the same article on a daily newspaper site of the mail persuasion that allows user comments you'll probably find hundreds of comments along the lines of "why isn't there a bridge to take the road over the railway" and "sign this petition to build a bridge to make sure this doesn't happen again" etc.

 

are the public at large unable to use level crossings? 

 

I blame health and safety myself, isolating people from danger to the point that they don't look for it! - but that's another topic

[lmsforever]

People grow up nowadays insulated from risk,the real world etc ,also they lead busy lives !!!!! you see their frustration if held in any form of queue on the road,in a shop etc .An example ,on Monday I returned to Lymington on the ferry and was stood in the queue for a coffee ,when a man pushed past at least five people so as to pay for his sandwich and orange drink.He could not go anywhere so what was his problem?There has to be a root and branch change from primary school upwards in the way children are taught,plus adults need to be taught to slow down warning signals etc are there for a reason!

[meil]

What I find incredible about this incident is the fact that the passengers have been kept on the train without any regard to their welfare or needs. I find this arrogant attitude of the Police and Networkrail to deal with their customers in such a manner as absolutely disgusting.

[Glorious NSE]

What I find incredible about this incident is the fact that the passengers have been kept on the train without any regard to their welfare or needs. I find this arrogant attitude of the Police and Networkrail to deal with their customers in such a manner as absolutely disgusting.

 

I too find it somewhat surprising that they were stuck on board for so long, the BBC report has been updated - the collision was about 6.30am and they didn't get back into Taunton till midday...

 

Having said that, they should have had amenities - catering, power, heat/cooling, personal space, seats, toilets and so on which aren't neccesarily available in every situation...

[The Stationmaster]

What I find incredible about this incident is the fact that the passengers have been kept on the train without any regard to their welfare or needs. I find this arrogant attitude of the Police and Networkrail to deal with their customers in such a manner as absolutely disgusting.

??? That isn't exactly what the BBC report says it - they were all moved to the 1st Class section and told about the incident and as Martyn has already posted above they then had every facility, plus a comfy seat hopefully, available to them.  Mind you it does seem to have taken an awful long time to clear the train back to Taunton so possibly there was some damage but whatever somebody had to get to site to assess that it was safe to move and Athelney is an awful long way from the nearest FGW depot with HST trained engineering staff.

[The Stationmaster]

People grow up nowadays insulated from risk,the real world etc ,also they lead busy lives !!!!! you see their frustration if held in any form of queue on the road,in a shop etc .An example ,on Monday I returned to Lymington on the ferry and was stood in the queue for a coffee ,when a man pushed past at least five people so as to pay for his sandwich and orange drink.He could not go anywhere so what was his problem?There has to be a root and branch change from primary school upwards in the way children are taught,plus adults need to be taught to slow down warning signals etc are there for a reason!

Regrettably it isn't just younger people - witness the old 'lady'  (a term I use very advisedly) who tried to cut in front of me at a supermarket cjeck-out a few weeks ago, when my shopping was already on the conveyor to the till  

 

But in the case of Athelney - if initial reports are correct and it is a standard installation - we are talking about a delay of just under 30 seconds from the time the yellow lights start to flash to the time the train arrives at the crossing.  There is impatience and then there is that .....

[Oldddudders]

My distinct impression is that the train is usually the safest place - once the incident itself is over, of course. Allowing the passengers to detrain and mill around, waiting for buses - just when the school run is using every bus for miles, mind you - in iffy weather strikes me as infinitely worse than leaving them in the train with full facilities as stated above. 

 

All such incidents have a "lessons learned" exercise afterwards, quite apart from official enquries, of course, but I doubt things could have been handled much better.

[Coldgunner]

I have very limited sympathy for those that decide to try and 'nip' over. My thoughts in these situations are with the driver and the passengers on the train, they didn't have a choice with regards to their involvement in the incident.

[byron]

What I find incredible about this incident is the fact that the passengers have been kept on the train without any regard to their welfare or needs. I find this arrogant attitude of the Police and Networkrail to deal with their customers in such a manner as absolutely disgusting.

Once those "nice plods" were allowed to treat any mishap as a crime scene, they took over and railway operating was given a back seat. No doubt they take their time because of possible come backs. When I worked in Control, getting plod to an incident was a work of art - neither BT or civil (someone has a sense of humour with that description) police were keen to attend even fatalities.

Evidence of what has happened is easier to record today than it ever was, priority should be given to attend to the injured, then welfare of passengers and then get the job running again. No need at all to block all lines, stop and caytion was good enough for generations.

[ianwales]

What I find incredible about this incident is the fact that the passengers have been kept on the train without any regard to their welfare or needs. I find this arrogant attitude of the Police and Networkrail to deal with their customers in such a manner as absolutely disgusting.

 

In an incident of this sort as Oldudders says the safest place is actually on the train itelf and I am sure the NR staff in the area got things moving as quickly as the situation allowed. Myself I think that moving them all to first class comfy seats and giving them food and drink is looking after them pretty well.

 

Ian

[Colin_McLeod]

I can't think of any good that arises from imprisoning the innocent train passengers.

 

I would rather "mill around" waiting for a bus, or even use my phone to use a taxi rather than be stuck in a train for 5.5 hours.,

 

A bit of common sense and cop on would not go amiss.  Perhaps the railway company thought it was a freight train and forgot that there were people on board, or perhaps every passenger was treated by the police as a suspect, or perhaps the Health & Safety Authorities needed to hear every passengers description of how they heard a bang and then the train came to a halt.

[Glorious NSE]

I would rather "mill around" waiting for a bus...

 

With the weather today in the South West, I would suggest you would not willingly be standing around on the Somerset levels for any length of time!

[beast66606]

I can't think of any good that arises from imprisoning the innocent train passengers.

 

I would rather "mill around" waiting for a bus, or even use my phone to use a taxi rather than be stuck in a train for 5.5 hours.,

 

A bit of common sense and cop on would not go amiss.  Perhaps the railway company thought it was a freight train and forgot that there were people on board, or perhaps every passenger was treated by the police as a suspect, or perhaps the Health & Safety Authorities needed to hear every passengers description of how they heard a bang and then the train came to a halt.

 

And when the railway re-opens and a "miller" is still in the 4 foot, having milled off the opposite way to the way their train departs, and the delayed Penzance - Paddington HST is approaching at full line speed.

 

I suspect the passengers were treated as witnesses rather than suspects and until the scene is declared safe and no further evidence is required there is no sense in allowing people to wander around, walking on the railway in works clothes (specifically shoes) is not the safest way to pass the time - patience prevents patients.

[Oldddudders]

With the weather today in the South West, I would suggest you would not willingly be standing around on the Somerset levels for any length of time!

Indeed - and would FGW be pleased to receive ambulance-chasing claims from customers who contracted colds/bronchitis/pneumonia because they were asked to leave the warm train? Not to mention the obvious risk that those "milling around" on a country road, and trying to stay warm while the buses are procured, risk being mown down by other demon drivers. FGW has a debt of care to its customers, and seems to have done the best it could. Almost everyone has a cellphone these days, so contact with the office and/or loved ones would have been feasible for most. Moving the train from the site would not have been within FGW's gift until police and others gave permission.

[Black Sheep]

And when the railway re-opens and a "miller" is still in the 4 foot, having milled off the opposite way to the way their train departs, and the delayed Penzance - Paddington HST is approaching at full line speed.

 

I suspect the passengers were treated as witnesses rather than suspects and until the scene is declared safe and no further evidence is required there is no sense in allowing people to wander around, walking on the railway in works clothes (specifically shoes) is not the safest way to pass the time - patience prevents patients.

Personally, being told "we're really sorry, this train has been involved in an incident on a level crossing, the police will be in attendance and we may be here some time. Could all passengers make their way to first class, help themselves to a comfortable seat and we'll be round with the drinks trolly in a short while" would be fine by me.

 

They've told me what's going on and told me what I need to do and made me comfortable while reassuring me that I'm safe.

 

One of the reasons not to let passengers off the train is so that they can't see the mangled wreck of a car that is wrapped around the front end of a train and go into shock.

[Fat Controller]

It would appear from the BBC report that at least some of the passengers were a group of aspiring journalists from a school or college in the West Country. They, at least, should gain something practical from the experience.

[Gruffalo]

It would appear from the BBC report that at least some of the passengers were a group of aspiring journalists from a school or college in the West Country. They, at least, should gain something practical from the experience.

Identifying dead bodies isn't something that I feel should be part of their curriculum!

[meil]

And when the railway re-opens and a "miller" is still in the 4 foot, having milled off the opposite way to the way their train departs, and the delayed Penzance - Paddington HST is approaching at full line speed.

 

I suspect the passengers were treated as witnesses rather than suspects and until the scene is declared safe and no further evidence is required there is no sense in allowing people to wander around, walking on the railway in works clothes (specifically shoes) is not the safest way to pass the time - patience prevents patients.

I wasn’t suggesting that you allow passengers to aimlessly wander over the track but equally it does not take nearly 6 hours to arrange a bus or even a few taxis to ferry passengers away and to get on with their journey.

 

 

 

This smacks of the police yet again having total disregard to anyone other than themselves.

 

[Glorious NSE]

I do agree it appears a long time, although they don't appear unduly scarred by the wait.

 

 

"The train came to a controlled stop some distance later, where the announcer told us that someone had jumped the level crossing.

 

"We were told to move to the front of the train, where they kept us calm and refreshed, and kept everyone well informed.

 

"A lot of people were shaken up, understandably, but the staff were absolutely brilliant and kept everyone calm and comfortable."

Read more: http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/Train-passengers-disembark-hours-man-dies-level/story-18483346-detail/story.html#ixzz2OByNzl8E
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Brian, I agree, interesting that a national news story has gone and found them on that particular day!

[Glorious NSE]

Okay...

 

Looking at the site and some of the news comments, the train was more than a mile from the crossing when it stopped, the crossing appears to be the nearest access point (the fire brigade reportedly had to run a mile along the tracks to ensure there was no fire) - and the weather has been awful.

 

So, to my mind, it probably went something like this....

 

Making them get off and walk a mile in horizontal rain along a wet and slippery railway line (irrespective of assorted reminders of the incident) is probably not a good thing compared to them staying in a safe, warm, secure environment - so that suggests they could not have been detrained till after they were able to move the train to take them back to the crossing where they could detrain in a safe manner and transfer (arguably) easily to other transport.

 

But once you've got the train moving, they might as well stay on it back to Taunton and connect to another train to take them on.

 

So it's down to how long it took to move the train - I expect a lot of that is down to the BTP and maybe RAIB saying they're done with the scene, plus you then have to get the train back wrong line across a damaged crossing with all sorts of people milling about on the line...

[The Stationmaster]

I wasn’t suggesting that you allow passengers to aimlessly wander over the track but equally it does not take nearly 6 hours to arrange a bus or even a few taxis to ferry passengers away and to get on with their journey.

 

 

 

This smacks of the police yet again having total disregard to anyone other than themselves.

While the police can indeed 'get a bit like that' let's try and look at it in a practical light as far as dealing with the passengers is concerned.  First of all we haven't got a clue hat was lying on or around the train following the collision and - being blunt - it might not have been very pretty and it could well have been distressing for some folk to have to walk past it.  Secondly there is the simple problem of getting them out of a train when it is on a line with a high ballast shoulder then finding somewhere that they can safely walk to a point where they can either be marshalled or stand and wait the arrival of a 'bus or three.  Then there is the simple problem of actually getting hold of a 'bus when it is coming up to the busiest time of day for most operators.

 

I don't dispute that 5 hours plus was an awful long time to wait but in my experience FGW's on-train care in circumstances of considerable delay tends to be very good - lots of help re messages and onward travel, sometimes folk allowed to borrow the staff's mobile 'phones plus the passengers were in the warm, were getting free drink and quite likely some food as well knowing the way FGW staff usually manage such big delays.  And most important of all the passengers were one heck of a lot safer sitting on the train rather than trying to climb down from it or walk along the formation and - in all probability - having to cross a cattle grid at the level crossing.

 

A good many years I was involved in an emergency evacuation of an HST (I saw the incident from a nearby station and got involved in helping) and while that train was admittedly much busier than this one sounds to have been it is not an easy task unless you have enough competent folk around to assist and help marshal the passengers and keep them in the safest places - somehow I doubt there were that many folk available to assist at Athelney or within a reasonable distance, the railway simply does not have people about in that sort of quantity nowadays.

 

Was the best done for the passengers - I don't honestly know but equally I get the impression that what was done was far better than the worst.