ZTC 611 UPDATED CONTROLLER!

[traction]

Just surfing about and saw this!

I've knocked the ZTC 511 before as it really is way too expensive for what it is/does.

 

I've got to say though that I hope it does well being made in the UK and all that, but I still think it's too expensive. IMHO

It's almost ECoS and Veissmann Commander money which can do so much more and have full colour touch screen interfaces.

I know that some people won't care about that, me included but that price just doesn't sit right, it really should come with the power supply for that price, although there are still some that don't!

 

I don't know how current 511 owners are going to feel about paying that much to upgrade, but at least they now can!

So well done to the new owner for really believing in the product and taking it forwards and no doubt investing what can only be a large sum of money.

He deserves for it to do well.

 

 

I don't think they will sell many of the old units now though as most will be waiting for the new one.

I can only take it that it will look the same as the 511 just with a different and by the sounds of it much improved PCB.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited April 6, 2013 by traction

[Suzie]

I just wonder which one of the 29 functions it does not operate. It does sound promising though with most of the issues specifically addressed.

[TWG]

I find the list of new features less than impressive.  Most of them have been offered for years in equipment that costs much less.  ZTC seem to be living in some sort of 1990s time warp.  Do they really expect us to be impressed by 128 speed steps, lights that work properly and 28 functions?  As for paying £199 for that, words fail me.  I suppose for that you do get a computer interface, with which you may be able to download overpriced updates in the future. 

[GoingUnderground]

No Railcom then. Strange as several ZTC decoders come with Railcom ( ZTC Talkback ) as standard.

 

GBP 449 including a PC interface is better, but if the PSU is extra, it still looks overpriced. I wish them well, but I won't be trading in my ECoS to go back to ZTC.   

[two tone green]

Ditto Keith.

 

The upgrade cost is a tad steep as well !

[Colin_McLeod]

I wonder if the upgrade option is a replacement piece of kit, or is it new insides to your existing ZTC511.  I have e mailed ZTC Controls to ask and will post again when I get a reply.

[GoingUnderground]

Looking at the description of the changes, many of them seem to be software related. So the changes to the circuit board look to be minimal.

[two tone green]

A built in PC interface should warrant a board change.

[GoingUnderground]

The 511, and even the cut down 505 model, already has a socket reserved for a PC interface, see page 13, item 29 "PC Serial" in the current 511 manual, which suggests at least to me that the design of the board already allows for an interface.  I have no idea if the PC socket was purely cosmetic and had no connections to the board as I no longer have my 505, thank goodness. So arguably, the PC connection isn't new at all, but simply rendered operational which might have been implemented through a software change alone.

 

What ZTC didn't do was use that socket for connecting the 511 to a PC to allow for computer control. Instead they used a separate module which worked through the X-Bus rather than through the pre-existing PC socket.

 

It might be worth some who bought a 511 or 505 secondhand at significantly less than list price upgrading their controller to the 611, but for any existing from new owner who bought at list price their total expenditure would be around GBP 650 if you include the original PSU which just looks to be too much. I do wonder if the upgrade pricing is designed to discourage secondhand buyers from upgrading to the 611 spec.

[Adrian Wintle]

Could someone explain what 'No bias to direction (F0) lighting' means?

 

Adrian

[Ian_B]

With the 511 if you are set in forward direction with directional lights on and you slow to a standstill (speed 0) then switch to reverse the lights remain set to forward until you set speed 1 in reverse i.e The lights are biased forward.

Ian_B

[two tone green]

How long a wait to find out. The mythical upgrade has been a long time coming.

[Colin_McLeod]

E Mail from ZTC Controls received today.

 

 

Hello Colin,

Thank you for your kind comments regarding the 611. It has indeed been a long struggle to get this far. You will have to return your 511 to us for a new motherboard to be fitted. There will be no change to the display at this stage - that is for a later development. I will add you to my email list, so that you will receive information on the progress on the 611.

Regards,

 

Neil Kinison


ZTC Controls Ltd

[kernowtim]

More noticable (irritating) when running in reverse with directional lights, ok when moving but as soon as train stops the front lights revert to showing red tail lights & change back as soon as the train moves off

With the 511 if you are set in forward direction with directional lights on and you slow to a standstill (speed 0) then switch to reverse the lights remain set to forward until you set speed 1 in reverse i.e The lights are biased forward.

Ian_B

[two tone green]

Thanks for posting the news Colin.

 

So it looks like that an additional payment on top of the £199 will have to be made to get the full benefit of the upgrade via a new display.

 

So this is now getting really expensive. Keith could well be right about the price being on the expensive side to put off up-graders.

 

Thought, will the new 611 come with the new display or will that be an upgrade too?

[GoingUnderground]

Colin,

 

Do you know what sort of changes are intended for the display?  More lines? Colour? Icons? Touch screen? These sorts of changes potentially could affect the design of the circuit board more, as they may well require a change of processor.

 

I thought Neil Kinison's comment that "...it has indeed been a long struggle to get this far..." was most revealing about the relationship between him and his supplier(s). It doesn't sound like an easy one. I do wish him good luck, and if the 611 really gets rid of all the gremlins then he may have managed the impossible of bringing ZTC back from the dead. But he still has a long way to go even after the release of the 611, which is where the 511 should have been at least 5 years ago, and a lot of lost time to make up if he hopes to catch up with the other DCC manufacturers in terms of reputation, features, useability ( all those multiple button presses) and most importantly price. 

Edited April 11, 2013 by GoingUnderground

[Adrian Wintle]

More noticable (irritating) when running in reverse with directional lights, ok when moving but as soon as train stops the front lights revert to showing red tail lights & change back as soon as the train moves off

 

Ok, I understand now. Obviously it always sent the 0 speed command with forward direction.

 

Adrian

[traction]

I thought Neil Kinison was the last owner who sold it to SBX?

[Crosland]

I thought Neil Kinison was the last owner who sold it to SBX?

Other way round.

 

Andrew

[traction]

Thanks Andrew,

 

I'm sure he had something to do with ZTC in a previous incarnation though.

 

So ZTC was owned by someone.

Then Dave Nicholson who sold it to SBX, who then sold it Neil.

 

I thought I had read somewhere that Neil had been involved previously .

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Colin_McLeod]

Colin,

 

Do you know what sort of changes are intended for the display?.... 

I don't have a clue. I have no connection with ZTC Controls. I was asking them was there a change in the display, and from their reply it seems the answer is "Yes but not yet"

[GoingUnderground]

The original ZTC was set up by Robin Palmer, who is said to have worked for/with Hornby on the Zero 1 system, after Hornby discontinued Zero 1. ZTC has been reported by others as being the acronym for Zero Two Controls and was supposed to be the next stage in development of the Zero 1 system. Hence the backward compatibility with Zero 1 for some ZTC products.

 

David Nicholson bought ZTC off Robin Palmer when it looked like it was going to close and ran it as one division in his business which I think was in the electronics sector and was called something like "Trizac" or Trizo", apologies if I've got the name wrong.

 

David retired leaving his son in charge of the electronics business, including ZTC. The son decided after about a 1-2 years in control to close ZTC. I don't know why but I suspect it was because it was detracting from the original electronics business in terms of time and money.

 

SBX did a deal with the Nicholson business to market ZTC products, I think manufacture was still with the Nicholson business. The SBX deal fell apart after about a year, reasons unknown.

 

Neil Kinison is a railway modeller who used ZTC products, and used to exhibit his own layout at shows. Not wanting to see the end of ZTC he acquired the rights to the product range and ZTC name, presumably from the Nicholson business, after the failure of the SBX deal. I don't know if the Nicholson business is still involved as the supplier to Kinison's ZTC.

Edited April 12, 2013 by GoingUnderground

[Crosland]

Thanks Andrew,

 

I'm sure he had something to do with ZTC in a previous incarnation though.

 

So ZTC was owned by someone.

Then Dave Nicholson who sold it to SBX, who then sold it Neil.

 

I thought I had read somewhere that Neil had been involved previously .

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Yes, I heard the same. There is some blurb on their homepage that states he was a sub-contractor to ZTC as well as a user.

 

Andrew

[NickL]

As a 511 owner, I'd thought I'd add my two pennyworth..

 

I also saw this notification a few days ago, and I'm delighted. Partly because I can have an upgrade, and partly because it presumably means that Neil has managed to get the ZTC business into a position where it can support product development.

 

The £199 cost of the upgrade doesn't bother me in the slightest, and what it brings my total spend to is utterly irrelevant. Not because I'm rolling in filthy lucre, but because the £500 or whatever it was I spent on the 511 six or seven years ago is gone. A "sunk cost", in the jargon. The £199 has to be judged against what I would need to spend now to replace the 511 with another brand controller offering similar facilities to the 611, since that's the alternative.

 

And since I couldn't give two hoots about colour touch screen displays, wireless controls or the ability to operate my layout over the internet from a  hammock in the Seychelles, but do like being able to "play trains" with a control interface that looks more like a loco cab than yet another remote control for the telly, actually my choice of alternatives is pretty limited... To zero, unless I'm much mistaken...

 

But I admit that I do hope that the PC interface is compatible with something that lets me read and program CV speed tables in bulk from software, as that is the point at which button pressing gets tedious!

 

Cheers all

 

Nick

Edited April 13, 2013 by NickL

[steve fay]

I think one of the 611 controllers will have to go on the shopping list, I really liked the 505 and now the 611 has the 28 functions available that will do for me.

I've tried a lot of DCC controllers and the ZTC is still my favourite.