GWR 1331 (ex-Whitland & Cardigan) 0-6-0ST Project

[RosiesBoss]

Hello everyone,

 

I've begun another kitbash project on an obscure GWR saddle tank engine: No 1331, built by Fox Walker for the Whitland & Cardigan Railway. It's a good fit for the Cambrian/Mid-Wales part of my 00 scale model loco collection, as this loco was sent to Oswestry around 1940 and stayed there until withdrawn around 1950.

 

I know I can purchase a brass kit from Agenoria, but can't justify the expense.

 

I've had a good look at the chassis from Hornby's "Toby" toy and the body of their "Smokey Joe" (both sleeping in my scrapbox) and it seems that they are not too far from what I need. Examination of some images downloaded from various on-line sources, as well as the dimensions quoted in Part 3 of the RCTS monograph on GWR locos, has been very encouraging.

 

I've spent quite a lot of time trawling the net to try to find some general arrangement drawings, but with no luck so far. I know I can just use the photos, as I did for 1376 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67786-gwr-1376-ex-bristol-exeter-0-6-0t-project/), but I would prefer to start with drawings and use photos to confirm them.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction (or - even better - supply a copy of them)?

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, 81C,

 

Thank you for the tip. I have checked the OPC lists of drawings held by the NRM. Here is the link to the relevant one: http://www.nrm.org.uk/~/media/Files/NRM/PDF/archiveslists2012/railwaycompanyworks/Oxford%20Publishing%20Company%20drawing%20list.pdf  They do have a microfilmed copy of weight diagram B46, which, according to the RCTS, is relevant to the model I wish to make.

 

As I live in Sydney (Oz), it's not practical for me to just drop in to the NRM to verify whether this drawing has enough detail to be helpful. I do suspect that it is not much more than a sketch, similar in style to those illustrated in Russell's tome on the locos absorbed at Grouping. I'm not happy to simply take the risk of sending my credit card details to the NRM through the post to order something that is of no more help than the photos I have already located.

 

Has anyone else reviewed this drawing?

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[Coach bogie]

May sound obvious but the Agenoria kit comes with a plan. Sadly I have recycled mine but if anyone else has an unbuilt kit out there they may be kind enough to scan and email to you.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[RosiesBoss]

Thank you, Mike for your suggestion. However, I have made a start on the model, using photos. If drawings become available, I may use them to upgrade the model.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RosiesBoss]

GWR 1331 (ex-Whitland & Cardigan) 0-6-0ST Project

Introduction

 

I’ve been gathering bits for my scrapbox for many years. When “1846marion” was disposing of his large inventory of Triang/Hornby spares on eBay, I bought quite a few lots that “might come in handy some day”. Among them were two motorised chassis for the Hornby “Toby” toy. This is a short wheelbase 0-6-0 with scale 4ft wheels.

 

Some years ago, one the members of my model railway club gave me a couple of discarded Hornby 0-4-0 bodies, as he had used the two chassis to make an 0 scale narrow gauge Garratt. One of the bodies was from “Smokey Joe”, which has a nice saddle tank, detailed backhead and a heavy diecast footplate – handy for small tank engines.

 

I was looking for a suitable new project recently and checked the abovementioned chassis and saddle tank body against sketches and photos in Russell, finding a near match with ex-BP&GVR Nos 2194-5.

 

I began modifying the chassis and footplate, narrowing motor mounts and opening up the footplate so they could be bolted together securely, then disaster struck! The front motor mounts disintegrated to powder – a real problem, as they function as top bearings to the gear train.

 

 

The project paused while I fabricated a replacement part from “Austlon” engineering nylon (an old sample in my scrapbox). (I did attempt to use the mount from the other chassis, but this chassis was even worse, as both front and rear mounts collapsed in this one.)

 

 

I fabricated a brass replacement cab, using the drawing in Russell, as well as the Ian Beattie drawing in the May 1989 Railway Modeller. I had to trim the width of the diecast cab rear wall and the dummy “coal”, so they would fit into the new cab.

 

I cut the cab from the saddle tank of “Smokey Joe” and adjusted it so that it would fit. It didn’t look too bad, but I slept on the issue and went back to it a few days later.

 

 

When I reviewed what I had to hand, I realised that I still had to fabricate and fit new cylinders, slidebars, crossheads, connecting rods, injectors – none of which were easily available to me here in Sydney.

 

While researching 2194-5 I came across several references to GWR 1331. I checked its dimensions and then realised it was a better fit than 2194-5. I could avoid having to make all those difficult components listed above. It is a better choice also for my Cambrian/Mid Wales group of locos, as it was based for many years at Oswestry.

 

The new cab was put into storage in the scrapbox.

 

Construction

 

In the absence of readily available drawings, I have used photos downloaded from the Internet. It seems that 1331 must have been a favourite for photographers, as there are many images from just about every angle. Both Green and Casserley & Johnson include useful photos in their books also.

 

I fabricated a new cab, which fits even better than the first one. The front spectacle plate sits beautifully behind the motor mounts and just in front of the (trimmed) dummy coal on the footplate. The saddle tank is fractionally too short, which I will fix by filling with 5-minute epoxy when the body is fully assembled.

 

I made new wheel splashers from sheet brass.

 

The current group of body parts looks like this:

 

Footplate and chassis:

 

Loosely assembled, the model has reached this stage:

 

There is still a lot of work to go to remove redundant bits from the footplate and then add missing details, but the project is well under way!

 

I’ll post updates when I have made more progress.

 

 

References

1. Anon.: “The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway – Part Three – Absorbed Engines, 1854-1921” (RCTS, 1956)
2. Anon.: “The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway – Part Ten– Absorbed Engines,1922-1947” (RCTS, 1966)
3. C.C.Green: “Cambrian Railways Album – 2” (Ian Allan, 1981)
4. J.H.Russell: A Pictorial Record of Great Western Absorbed Engines” (OPC,1978)
5. Casserley & Johnson: “ Locomotives at the Grouping – No.4 – Great Western Railway” (Ian Allan, 1966)
6. Railway Modeller, May 1989

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RosiesBoss]

G’day, all,

 

Some more progress today:

• Beading soldered to cab and bunker
• Brasswork cleaned up and wire-brushed
• Redundant details removed from diecast footplate
• Front buffer-beam cut off footplate to provide a closer-to-scale overall length
• New brass steps fabricated and fitted beneath cab doorway

 

Dry-assembled again, the model is looking a little better:

 

 

I note from some photos that there was a front set of steps on the driver’s side only, but that this had been removed before the loco was photographed in 1940 on Porthwaen Sidings. http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=gwr+1331&um=1&rlz=1T4ADRA_enAU428AU429&hl=en&biw=1080&bih=537&tbm=isch&tbnid=LeCC1pJSnaChxM:&imgrefurl=http://www.britishrailwayphotographs.com/collection.asp%3Ffolder%3Dgwr%2520bw&docid=ZkPHB2xik4lfrM&imgurl=http://www.britishrailwayphotographs.com/collections/gwr%252520bw/1331%252520porthwaen%252520sidings%2525201940.jpg&w=1162&h=847&ei=wTCwUbv6LYeLkwWkx4HADA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=604&vpy=2&dur=8218&hovh=192&hovw=263&tx=95&ty=217&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=164&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0,i:117

 

Does anyone know when these steps were removed?

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2013 by RosiesBoss

[RosiesBoss]

Hello again,

 

More progress today:

• Safety valves and chimney replaced
• Saddle tank and cab fixed to footplate with 5-minute epoxy
• Gap between cab and tank filled with 5-minute epoxy and then trimmed back
• Smokebox door dart and moulded handrail removed from smokebox front
• Handrail staunchions and rails fitted
• Wheel splashers fitted to footplate

 

1331 is continuing to improve her looks:

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

 

[RosiesBoss]

G’day all,

 

Some more progress:

• Buffer beams trimmed to more scale proportions
• Sandboxes fabricated and fitted to both sides
• Tool box fabricated and fitted to fireman’s side
• New handrail fitted to top of saddle tank
• New wheel guards fabricated and fitted to front & rear of chassis
• New dart fabricated and fitted to smokebox door

 

Here she is:

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RosiesBoss]

Hello again,

 

Some more progress today:

• Wheel guards reshaped
• Sprung buffers (from scrapbox) added
• Scale couplings fitted

We’re getting closer to completion:

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

 

[RJL]

Like what you have done there Rob.

[tom82]

Looking good so far Rob.

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, RJL and Tom 82,

 

I've been finishing the details and have begun painting the model. I expect to upload few more images within the next couple of days.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RosiesBoss]

G’day, everyone,

 

I’ve been putting the finishing touches to 1331 and can post the results a little sooner than I thought. I have fitted:

• Lamp brackets, front & rear
• Whistles (recovered from an old Tri-ang Hornby Hall class body)
• Vacuum ejector pipe (made from household electrical copper wire)
• Front vacuum brake pipe (old stock – I lost its mate!)
• Tension-lock couplings

 

I sprayed the almost-finished body with automotive gray primer. What an improvement!

 

I then painted the lower half of the motor and front motor mount with Humbrol BR/GWR green (an old tin of “Authentic Colour” enamel). I painted the rest of the visible bits of the chassis with Humbrol satin black enamel.

 

 

I painted the body with appropriate Humbrol enamels. This included the plastic backhead recovered from “Smokey Joe”.

 

 

I finished the model with HMRS Pressfix transfers and home-made numberplates, produced as described in my notes on 1376. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67786-gwr-1376-ex-bristol-exeter-0-6-0t-project/

 

 

 

Reflections on the Project

 

This was never going to be a fine-scale model – accurate in all respects. If you need one of these, buy and assemble the Agenoria kit. Instead, it made use of components in my scrapbox and cost me very little (all in Australian dollars):

• “Toby” chassis – about $10, including post
• “Smokey Joe” body – free discard from a fellow club member
• Buffers – old stock, held for over 20 years – about $5
• Chimney - old stock, held for over 20 years – about $5
• Vac brake pipes - old stock, held for about 10 years – about $5
• Couplings, handrail stanchions, handrail, paint, transfers, sheet brass and solder – leftovers from other projects – nil
• Safety valve bonnet – turned on my lathe from scrap brass and fitted internally with modified spare Romford wheel nut to represent the four valves – nil

 

So, instead of costing me GBP143, including post, (about $240), it has cost me about $25.00. I’m glad I retained all those leftover bits and pieces.

 

I think I have achieved acceptable value for money!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

Edited June 21, 2013 by RosiesBoss

[jcm@gwr]

Hi Rob,

 

Nice job youv'e done there, and quite quickly too.

 

You wouldn't have known that it started life as a

'Smokey Joe' if you only saw the finished project!

 

Jeff

[MarkAustin]

Did the loco have Great Western on the saddle tanks? Most of them didn't.

[tom82]

Did the loco have Great Western on the saddle tanks? Most of them didn't.

 

As he loco was rebuilt in 1926 at Swindon works after being used on Cardigan & Whitland railway I would of thought so

[RosiesBoss]

G'day to all,

 

I did take a very good look at all the photos I could locate on-line or in books. I had two issues to consider:

 

1. Was the step/handrail fitted to the front of the right-hand footplate removed at the same time as the bell - when it ws transferred away from working at Weymouth?

2. Did it carry "Great Western" before (as shown in some images) the 1934 roundel?

 

I did discover along the way that at least one image was not taken in 1940 at Porthywaen sidings, but post-nationalisation, as it clearly displays a smokebox numberplate.

 

The image for sale at "Steam" clearly shows "Great Western": http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/r3/no_1331/print/4039627.html

 

The two images available on-line showing 1331 at Porthwaen/Porth-y-waen clearly have no front step visible. All post-nationalisation images showing this part of the loco are similar in that respect.

 

I chose to finish the loco as sent to Oswestry - with no bell or front step, and with "Great Western", as I think it suits her better than the roundel.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RosiesBoss]

G’day everyone,

 

1331 has now entered service. Trials are now complete and she runs very sweetly through all speed ranges. Her tractive power is about right for her design: about 18 4-wheeled wagons (including Toad).

 

Here she is, hauling a goods train past Carmarthen Junction shed:

 

 

Here is a group image of several Cambrian lines locos, some on shed and with 1376 and 1331 hauling goods trains:

 

 

For those that are still interested, the other models are:

• 1196 (scratchbuilt)
• 908 (Lima/Mainline/scratchbuilt)
• 2517 (Mainline/Wills/Airfix)
• 3283 “Comet” (K’s)
• 3265 “Tre Pol & Pen” (Airfix/Tri-ang/scratchbuilt)

 

Details of these models are in my other posts:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67786-gwr-1376-ex-bristol-exeter-0-6-0t-project/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70468-gwr-absorbed-locos-on-carmarthen-junction/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70438-gwr-4-4-0s-on-carmarthen-junction/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70550-carmarthen-junction-miscellena/

 

 

Happy days!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

Edited June 29, 2013 by RosiesBoss

[MarkAustin]

G'day to all,

 

I did take a very good look at all the photos I could locate on-line or in books. I had two issues to consider:

 

1. Was the step/handrail fitted to the front of the right-hand footplate removed at the same time as the bell - when it ws transferred away from working at Weymouth?

2. Did it carry "Great Western" before (as shown in some images) the 1934 roundel?

 

I did discover along the way that at least one image was not taken in 1940 at Porthywaen sidings, but post-nationalisation, as it clearly displays a smokebox numberplate.

 

The image for sale at "Steam" clearly shows "Great Western": http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/r3/no_1331/print/4039627.html

 

The two images available on-line showing 1331 at Porthwaen/Porth-y-waen clearly have no front step visible. All post-nationalisation images showing this part of the loco are similar in that respect.

 

I chose to finish the loco as sent to Oswestry - with no bell or front step, and with "Great Western", as I think it suits her better than the roundel.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

Well, colour me flabergasted. As far as I was aware the GWR did not not letter any of it's saddle tanks (except for, IIRC, no 850 which got G W R lettering ffor a film). Was this just done for absorbed saddle tank locos?

 

It's worth noting, too, that if a side tank loco had a centred number plate, the lettering was omitted if the space was too small. Unlike other companies, the GWR had only one size of lettering.

[peter jf]

Hi Rob,

Inspired by your model I decided to have ago.

Followed your instructions but used 1mm plastic instead of brass sheet.

Delighted with finished model.

Peter

[Passed Driver]

Hi There Rob. Terrific work way too ambitious for me, considering that Hornby made Smokey Joe as an 0-4-0 you really did a good job.

Does that mean that the original body of The loco was too long? or whatever? Kevin

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, Passed Driver,

 

Thanks for your comments. Yes, Hornby has stretched the whole body of the Pug to fit their standard 0-4-0 chassis. There has been quite a bit of discussion about that aspect in other threads.

 

The conversion was not as hard as it may look, apart from repairing the "Mazak rot" on the Toby chassis. Although I have still not found any drawings, the main dimensions are published by the RCTS and I have found more than 20 images put up for sale on eBay of the loco, from which I downloaded low-res copies. From those, I worked out the proportions and details for the new body.

 

Fabrication of the new body parts from thin brass sheet was fairly simple, giving me some practice with my soldering iron. If you prefer working with polystyrene, you can achieve results just as acceptable, as seen on Post No.20 (above).

 

This was a very inexpensive conversion. Why not have a go and build up your own experience?

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[DCB]

The discarded 2194/5 body/ cab is interesting, I was looking at plans of Kidwelly in the Russel book earlier and wondered about a Smokey Joe body conversion. Thinking about converting an old 1960s "Nellie" chassis to 0-6-0 by re drilling the chassis and fitting Romfords etc

 

Your wheels look like non see through Hornby Thomas type.   I made up a fitting for my lathe to fit the tyres from these wheels over and I cut the centre disc away to leave just a small lip.  About a 50% success rate so far but it makes a big difference to the appearance 

[Tom Burnham]

Hmm, this looks like an interesting possibility as a basis for Kent & East Sussex Railway No 8 "Hesperus", which was originally a Manning Wardle 060ST of the North Pembrokeshire and Fishguard Railway, heavily Swindonised after the company was taken over by the GWR.  See https://www.hfstephens-museum.org.uk/locomotives/hesperus

[Tom Burnham]

Hmm, this looks like an interesting possibility as a basis for Kent & East Sussex Railway No 8 "Hesperus", which was originally a Manning Wardle 060ST of the North Pembrokeshire and Fishguard Railway, heavily Swindonised after the company was taken over by the GWR.  See https://www.hfstephens-museum.org.uk/locomotives/hesperus

Link has now changed to http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/locomotive%20notes%20topics/hesperus.html