The Re 6/6

[Guest oldlugger]

I thought I'd start a thread about the amazing Re 6/6 as I couldn't find one here (specifically dealing with the loco). I've always admired these phenomenally powerful machines, one of the most powerful in the world, with an equivalent horsepower rating of about three BR class 60s in tandem; 10,600 bhp is no mean feat from a relatively compact locomotive (thanks largely to the Bo Bo Bo) arrangement. What a beast, which always looked best, in my opinion, in the original SBB green with light grey lower body strip. Can you imagine seeing one of these gliding through somewhere like Stafford or Coventry with a Gotthard length freight train, or 16 UIC dark green coaches in tow? An elegant design too, making a great esthetic stable mate to the equally lovely Ae 6/6. I would imagine their days on the SBB are coming to an end in the not too distant future as newer locos take their place, and the original Gotthard route being superseded by the new direct tunnel from Switzerland to Italy.

 

http://www.hobbytrain.ch/berichte/image/Re6-6.jpg

 

Cheers

Simon

[Horsetan]

They are nothing compared to the Ae8/14.....

[Guest oldlugger]

Finding videos on Youtube of green examples is hard, but here's one I found:-

 

[Guest oldlugger]

They are nothing compared to the Ae8/14.....

These are impressive locos Ivan, but are effectively two Ae 4/7s semi permanently coupled together, and nowhere near as nice looking, in my view.

[DaveF]

A few green Re6/6s in 1978.  3 taken by me, one by Dad.

 

 

Epesses SBB Re6/6 11636 eastbound Regionalzug 28th July 78 C3945

 

 

EpessesSBB Re6/6 11636 Vernier-Meyrin 28th July 78 C3946

 

 

Epesses SBB Re6/6 11639 eastbound schnellzug 28th July 78 C3948

 

 

Epesses Re6/6 schnellzug 28th July 78 J6182

 

 

I've a lot more on the Gotthard etc between 1988 and 1997 but they are not resized for flickr or here yet.

 

Epesses is not too far from Lausanne, on the shore of Lake Geneva (Lac Leman).

 

David

Edited June 13, 2013 by DaveF

[DaveF]

Some at Arthgoldau in 1988.

 

Arth Goldau RE6/6 11676 Zurzach northbound freight 28th July 88 C9640

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11607 Wattwil northbound freight 29th July 88 C9647

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11671 Othmarsingen southbound containers 30th July 88 C9807

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11661 Grampel Steg Schnellzug Chiasso to Winterthur 5th Aug 88C10197

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11640 Munchenstein EC Tiziano Hamburg to Milano 5th Aug 88 C10203

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11663 Eglisau southbound freight 5th Aug 88C10209

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11683 Amsteg Silenen Chiasso to Basel 5th Aug 8 C10211.

 

 

Arth Goldau  Re6/6 11679 Cadenazzo ecs Luzern to Arth Goldau 5th Aug 88 C10213

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11666 Stein am Rhein southbound freight 5th Aug 88 C10221

 

 

Arth Goldau Re6/6 11662 Reuchenette Pery relief Zurich to Chiasso 5th Aug 88 C10224

 

David

Edited June 13, 2013 by DaveF

[Guest oldlugger]

Very nice photos indeed Dave; the first set in particular show the loco very nicely. Thanks for posting these as I'm sure lots of people will enjoy looking at them.

 

All the best

Simon

Edited June 13, 2013 by oldlugger

[trisonic]

Very beautiful compared to the latest "Alstom-a-likes" so prevalent nowadays......

I never realized that they had so much horsepower, did they suffer from traction problems?

 

Best, Pete.

[brian daniels]

Ah now you are talking, a superb bit of kit. They are going nowhere at the moment, even Re4/4's are getting rebuilt at Bellinzona. I have had all of them for haulage, including 11638 that was withdrawn following a crash. It was great to go to the Gotthard on a bank holiday as then they would double head them on passenger trains of the Gotthard. The acceleration from Altdorf to Erstfeld was truly pushed back in your seat stuff. Made me wonder if the drivers did it on purpose on this straight stretch before the hill.

 

Picture of one I took a couple of weeks ago.

Edited June 13, 2013 by brian daniels

[DIW]

I never realized that they had so much horsepower, did they suffer from traction problems?

 

Best, Pete.

 

As far as I can tell they didn't, even though the axle loading was only 20 tons!

If you feed this page into Google translate (or similar) you can get the feel of how the evolution came about, and the roles of the Ae 6/6 and the Re4/4 iii in that evolution. The Co-Co arrangement of the Ae 6/6 wasn't as well suited to delivering the power at speed on sharply-curved track as the Bo-Bo-Bo arrangement of the Re 6/6, which as far as I can tell was one of the factors in holding back re-development of the Ae 6/6 into an R class.

 

 

These are impressive locos Ivan, but are effectively two Ae 4/7s semi permanently coupled together, and nowhere near as nice looking, in my view.

 

The Ae 4/7s (~1927) did indeed run as semi-permanent coupled pairs, but of course you are referring to the Ae 8/14 (number 11801) which is of their vintage (1931). The wheels were shuffled around a bit, so instead of the 2-Do-1+1-Do-2 arrangement of 2 x Ae 4/7 (with the Do fixed in the frame as derived from a 4-8-2 steam locomotive concept) it was 1-Bo-1-Bo-1+1-Bo-1-Bo-1, but not arranged as simply as this! It used Java bogies to provide in reality (1-A)-(A-1-A)-(A-1)+(1-A)-(A-1-A)-(A-1). This was not as powerful as the Re 6/6, but does pre-date it by over 40 years! It used the same Buchli drive as the Ae 4/7. Note that the A-1-A part was fixed to the frames, and the 1 part of the (1-A) Java bogie was also mounted as an Adams radial to get more side-play.

 

The next Ae 8/14 (number 11851) was built a year later, and had a more modern look to it, having the Rounded cab ends and smoother body. This resulted from doing away with the Buchli drive system and using the SLM drive, but under the skin it was the same cumbersome wheel arrangement as the first version.

 

The version of Ae 8/14 to which Horsetan refers (number 11852) is the third one, and a much more powerful development (this is all comparative; we're still talking about 1940 here). In simplified terms it is 11851 with more grunt! It achieve its objective though, it was the most powerful locomotive in Switzerland (and probably the world too at the time, though I haven't checked up on that). It seems it was built by the manufacturers SLM and MFO without any blessing from SBB, and accordingly shouldn't really have been given its number.

 

You can read more on the Ae 8/14 locos if you want to, by applying google translate here.

 

Some info on the Java bogie is here (scroll down nearly halfway, to Kombinierte Drehgestelle (Combined drivegear) where the picture of Ae 8/14 is.

 

Food for thought for chassis scratchbuilders?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Guest oldlugger]

Great photos Brian, especially the last one that captures the distinctive presence of this powerful work horse. The Re 4/4II behind it in Swiss Express livery is also another very nice loco and I think the orange livery really works well on these Bo Bo's. It's good to hear that the Re 6/6s will be around for a while yet!

 

Cheers

Simon

[Guest oldlugger]

As far as I can tell they didn't, even though the axle loading was only 20 tons!

If you feed this page into Google translate (or similar) you can get the feel of how the evolution came about, and the roles of the Ae 6/6 and the Re4/4 iii in that evolution. The Co-Co arrangement of the Ae 6/6 wasn't as well suited to delivering the power at speed on sharply-curved track as the Bo-Bo-Bo arrangement of the Re 6/6, which as far as I can tell was one of the factors in holding back re-development of the Ae 6/6 into an R class.

 

 

 

The Ae 4/7s (~1927) did indeed run as semi-permanent coupled pairs, but of course you are referring to the Ae 8/14 (number 11801) which is of their vintage (1931). The wheels were shuffled around a bit, so instead of the 2-Do-1+1-Do-2 arrangement of 2 x Ae 4/7 (with the Do fixed in the frame as derived from a 4-8-2 steam locomotive concept) it was 1-Bo-1-Bo-1+1-Bo-1-Bo-1, but not arranged as simply as this! It used Java bogies to provide in reality (1-A)-(A-1-A)-(A-1)+(1-A)-(A-1-A)-(A-1). This was not as powerful as the Re 6/6, but does pre-date it by over 40 years! It used the same Buchli drive as the Ae 4/7. Note that the A-1-A part was fixed to the frames, and the 1 part of the (1-A) Java bogie was also mounted as an Adams radial to get more side-play.

 

The next Ae 8/14 (number 11851) was built a year later, and had a more modern look to it, having the Rounded cab ends and smoother body. This resulted from doing away with the Buchli drive system and using the SLM drive, but under the skin it was the same cumbersome wheel arrangement as the first version.

 

The version of Ae 8/14 to which Horsetan refers (number 11852) is the third one, and a much more powerful development (this is all comparative; we're still talking about 1940 here). In simplified terms it is 11851 with more grunt! It achieve its objective though, it was the most powerful locomotive in Switzerland (and probably the world too at the time, though I haven't checked up on that). It seems it was built by the manufacturers SLM and MFO without any blessing from SBB, and accordingly shouldn't really have been given its number.

 

You can read more on the Ae 8/14 locos if you want to, by applying google translate here.

 

Some info on the Java bogie is here (scroll down nearly halfway, to Kombinierte Drehgestelle (Combined drivegear) where the picture of Ae 8/14 is.

 

Food for thought for chassis scratchbuilders?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Thanks for the info Dave, which was most interesting... like the evolution of Swiss electric traction itself. Swiss locos have always been on a par with British locos for me, looks and interest wise. You can tell that the Swiss love their railways, not least due to the vast array of railway networks, but also because of the styling, the liveries and cantonal/town shields/names on the locos. If I had to choose four non steam locos from the world as my favourites then it would be as follows: Ae 6/6; Re 6/6; the Western class 52, and the Warship class 42. I like the fact that BR and SBB share some history with the ill fated western region gas turbine loco being built by SLM/BBC with bogies very similar to the Ae 6/6.

 

Cheers

Simon

Edited June 13, 2013 by oldlugger

[Guest oldlugger]

Very beautiful compared to the latest "Alstom-a-likes" so prevalent nowadays......

I never realized that they had so much horsepower, did they suffer from traction problems?

 

Best, Pete.

Hello Pete,

 

In addition to Dave's very informative post about the class, the locos were built as Bo Bo Bo's with the centre bogie being articulated laterally, to help negotiate many of the tight radius curves on the Gotthard, and reduce the track wear of the older Ae 6/6 class. The power was more evenly distributed with the three bogies. The Re 6/6 was more or less tailor made to work the Gotthard route, slowly replacing the elderly Ae 6/6 fleet.

 

All the best

Simon

[Oldddudders]

Inasmuchas this forum has a member by the name of Re6/6, I suspect he deserves to be insulted consulted.

 

As I mentioned to him some few weeks ago, I feel that the tri-bogie configuration is a bit difficult to model, given our typically rather sharp curves.

 

Having watched Ae6/6s coming down into Ticino in 1966, and Re4/4/IIs in Kandersteg a few years later, I am in no doubt that the Swiss have a few ideas about loco design.

[Guest oldlugger]

Some nice Re 6/6 and Re 4/4II action here, albeit with rather short trains by SBB standards!

 

[MikeTrice]

A real mix of Ae 6/6 here:

 

[MikeTrice]

A couple of Re 6/6s this time:

 

[RhBBob]

Back to Simon's original fear about the class extinction !  The Swiss do tend to aim for a balance between scrapping and refurbishment, as evidenced by the original excitingly named Re 4/4¹ which arrived in 1946 and was around until 1996/1998.  In between the cab was rebuilt without the end door and considerably modernised.

 

The Re 4/4¹ was designed with an axle loading of only 14 tons, an improvement on the BLS 1944 series of Ae 4/4.  This enabled it to achieve higher speeds on the SBB mainline curves, which refinement was then carried forward to the later classes.

 

Yes, the Swiss do build superb, powerful locomotives but when your landscape is 5/8^th alpine chain, you have little choice !!

[MikeTrice]

A few more:

 

 

 

 

[Horsetan]

....I am in no doubt that the Swiss have a few ideas about loco design.

Yes, well, they do have more than a few ideas about efficient public transport, and punctuality.

[EddieB]

Not just that, the Swiss set standards for longevity and mileages returned by their locomotives, because their maintence standards are second to none.  Every servicing depot I've visited has been immaculate (as Mike's photo illustrates).

[EddieB]

Thanks for the info Dave, which was most interesting... like the evolution of Swiss electric traction itself. Swiss locos have always been on a par with British locos for me, looks and interest wise. You can tell that the Swiss love their railways, not least due to the vast array of railway networks, but also because of the styling, the liveries and cantonal/town shields/names on the locos. If I had to choose four non steam locos from the world as my favourites then it would be as follows: Ae 6/6; Re 6/6; the Western class 52, and the Warship class 42. I like the fact that BR and SBB share some history with the ill fated western region gas turbine loco being built by SLM/BBC with bogies very similar to the Ae 6/6.

 

Cheers

Simon

Apart from BBC components and Sulzer engines built under licence, locomotive engineering connections between the UK and Switzerland are actually quite sparse.  While British built steam locomotives were exported in large numbers to mainland Europe, Switzerland sticks out as something of an exception.

 

Of course this doesn't detract from the aesthetics of (some) Swiss locomotives.

[Horsetan]

The Swiss dispensed with steam traction relatively early, having discovered the benefits of hydroelectric power.

[Irishswissernie]

 

Just as well this livery was abandoned; imagine trying to do this on a model!

 

Loco was on a Basel passenger service before sectorisation had got a firm grip.

[Oldddudders]

"We go logistics". English as she is spoke.