RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2014 Has anybody used the current version of the Hattons decoder? http://www.ehattons.com/67147/Hattons_Model_Railways_Ltd_DCR_8PINSA_ValuePack05_8_pin_harness_4_function_1_1Amp_decoder_with_back_EMF_with_Stay_Alive_Pack_of_5/StockDetail.aspx I fancy a punt at that price, subject to positive reports. TIA. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) HI Mike Has anybody used the current version of the Hattons decoder? http://www.ehattons.com/67147/Hattons_Model_Railways_Ltd_DCR_8PINSA_ValuePack05_8_pin_harness_4_function_1_1Amp_decoder_with_back_EMF_with_Stay_Alive_Pack_of_5/StockDetail.aspx I fancy a punt at that price, subject to positive reports. TIA. Mike. Hi Mike I bought the (currently unavailable) "DCR-8PIN-TS4SA-ValuePack5" from Hattons. I've had no problem with them however they were & still are my first & only DCC chips so have nothing to compare them against & I'm still building my layout so they've had very little use. That said, installation was easy, I reprogammed the chip/loco number in seconds and the operated the lights on my DCC ready locos straight off. They are DDC Concepts chips repackaged as Hattons - so much so, the heatshrink still says DCC Concepts on them! All the best Edited January 16, 2014 by sdw7300 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I have some and they are fine for my purposes. Like sdw above they have not had much use so far, but no problems. Mine are also labelled DCC Concepts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thanks Sam and John. An order will be winging it's way west. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Thanks Sam and John. An order will be winging it's way west. Mike. Worth remembering you get what you pay for. But if you spend a hundred quid or more on a fine loco, I personally would fit better decoders. If they are DCC Concepts decoders, they are sort of ok ish, but there are better, e.g. Lenz Just my opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERBOB Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Bought a five pack and now ready for another pack. I think they're excellent and have had no problems whatsoever. Fitted one to an ageing Bachmann 08 this evening (non DCC ready - so cut the cable and soldered); it works like a dream. Tested LEDs and adding lights tomorrow so not expecting any problems. Now for more stock conversions! OK they're a "no frills" item, but recommended, in my experience. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) I have used several HATTONS Decoders in quite a few loco types ( 0-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 0-4-4) + diesels & EMU/DMU The performance is equal and in some aspects better than decoders costing twice as much+ more! Remember as with a lot of products which we purchase, (not just Model Railways) Expensive does not always mean better! Edited April 9, 2014 by Stevelewis 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnysa Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 DCCconcwpts decoders have been my non sound decoder of choice since their entry to the market. IMHO they are very good value for money. The slow running is as good as any I have used in the 18+ yrs I have been op DCC. If using CVs 5 & 6 or full speed curve (CVs 67-94) for top & middle speed there is sometimes a speed lurch in one of the speed steps. The cure is set CV10 to the speed step the lurch occurs. EG, if lurch occurs on speed step 12, using 28 SS mode, set CV10 to 12. The same thing happened to some TCS decoders. If using RR&CO these decoders may not suit but for the average DCC operator that does not use any computer control DCCconcepts decoders are as good as any that I have used including the more expensive ones. No affiliation with DCCconcepts other than a satisfied customer. Cheers Ian PS My apologies if I have hijacked the thread. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted April 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) DCCconcepts decoders have been my non sound decoder of choice since their entry to the market. IMHO they are very good value for money. The slow running is as good as any I have used in the 18+ yrs I have been op DCC. If using CVs 5 & 6 or full speed curve (CVs 67-94) for top & middle speed there is sometimes a speed lurch in one of the speed steps. The cure is set CV10 to the speed step the lurch occurs. EG, if lurch occurs on speed step 12, using 28 SS mode, set CV10 to 12. The same thing happened to some TCS decoders. If using RR&CO these decoders may not suit but for the average DCC operator that does not use any computer control DCCconcepts decoders are as good as any that I have used including the more expensive ones. No affiliation with DCCconcepts other than a satisfied customer. Cheers Ian PS My apologies if I have hijacked the thread. The purpose of Back EMF is to ensure the loco runs at a constant speed at a given speed step, regardless of load (assuming that's within the engine's capability in the first place!) and, more importantly, when encountering gradients. If you have partially disabled Back EMF, which is what you are doing by setting a value in CV 10, then trains may slow down when going uphill and accelerate downhill. That might be OK if you are driving the engine directly and can adjust the throttle, but not if you are leaving the train to run whilst doing something else. In addition, using any form of automation, such as RR&Co, will make this issue more obvious. You should only have to adjust CVs to match the performance of the loco in question, not to overcome a deficiency in the decoder itself. With TCS decoders, I found that with some engines, the maximum speed was achieved at speed step 26. For example a Hornby West Country was measured by RR&Co at 81 mph on step 28 but 87 mph on step 26, which of course resulted in erratic running even when being driven manually. The lurch is characteristic of both the TCS and DCC Concepts decoders I once used. As already mentioned, you get what you pay for and having spent £100+ on a fine loco it seems to me false economy to install a cheap decoder with a known shortcoming, when better decoders are available for not much more money. The Lenz Standard+ is an excellent decoder, and available from about £16 (DC Kits, Model Railways Direct) and £18 from Hatton's. Unlike DCC Concepts and TCS decoders, Lenz ones also have the benefit of short circuit protection which eliminates the risk of the decoder burning out if you short circuit it. Edited October 5, 2016 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnysa Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 RFS,if you read my post you will notice that I did mention DCCconcepts decoders may not be suitable for RR&CO etc. Not all of us can afford RR&CO even if we wanted to which I and many don,t. With the same money I can buy lots of DCCconcepts decoders, locos to put them in and thoroughly enjoy them. My 3mx6m layout is mountainous with 3% gradients and DCCconcepts/TCS locos do not pick up speed going down hill which is possibly due to the fact that my locos are operated at scale speeds meaning locos are still operating within the BEMF range. Same going up hill. Also all my locos are speed limited to 40 SMPH and speed matched. Yes, like most of my model RR friends, I like to drive my trains and not let a computer do it for me. I am certainly not against those that want auto layout control. Horses for courses etc. I will stand by my original statement. DCCconcepts decoders are value for money and generally speaking perform as well as most decoders for many people. BTW, if CVs 5 & 6 or full 28 step speed curve is not implemented,( I do but many modelers don't), the lurch does not happen at all and BEMF stays fully intact. The beauty of this great hobby is we can all do and enjoy our own thing and be happy with what works for us. Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Here we go again......!!!!!!! For what it's worth , I'll give my two pennoth again. TCS and DCC Concepts decoders are, in my opinion, not as good as a Lenz Standard. The TCS ones are not cheap either. The DCC Concepts may well be cheaper, but perform similarly to the TCS. My problem was running a train up and down my gradients, 1 in 80. A train doing a scale 40/50 mph at the top of a hill would speed up to a scale 50/60 mph at the bottom. Looks ridiculous, going round a curve through a station at that point. I operate alone generally, keeping 3 or 4 trains going at the same time. I can't DRIVE each one at the same time, so rely on the decoder. The Lenz performs perfectly for the way I want to play trains, the other two are POOR in comparison, FOR THE WAY I WANT TO PLAY TRAINS. But that is me...... Others find them acceptable......I don't. That's why I fixed on the Lenz Standard decoder. And in the UK , a price of about £17 or £18 each is acceptable to me for a £100 loco. If you want to save 4 or 5 pounds, buy the cheaper item.....!!! However, ALL my TCS and DCC Concepts decoders have failed over the last three or four years........ everyone single one( over a dozen). Never had a Lenz fail yet. So to me, buying cheap was false economy in the longer term....... But that is purely my own honest experience. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 BEMF control of a motor involves a PI or PID control loop with feedback from the motor. It can only be 100% truly effective if tuned for every individual motor (or at least motor type). This is quite a technical process and would be beyond most modellers. Anything else is just a varying degree of compromise.The better decoder manufacturers give you CVs to allow you to tune the control loop. Lenz just have "motor type" with little explanation. I don't know exactly what CV10 does on the DCC concepts decoders. At the other end of the scale you should be able to adjust the P, I and D constants. The Zimo decoder manuals give an idea how much adjustment there can be.At high speed the time taken to perform the BEMF sampling can adversely affect control and there should be a CV to set the speed at which BEMF is reduced or turned off altogether, so "partially disabling" BEMF may be exactly the right thing to do, depending what CV10 is actually doing. Zimo decoders adjust the BEMF sampling automatically. I don't think any of the issues described are down to faulty decoders, just that they need to be setup for the loco they are used in.Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianHicks Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Just thought I'd add my comments about the "current Hattons decoders", as I've just been 'fault finding' an "8pin direct" this morning that's installed in a Bachmann DCC Ready Class 08. The decoder I purchased a month or two ago no longer seems to be a 'DCC concepts' one. It has a CV8/C7 'pair value' of 79/11 : 79 is "Hattons". The paperwork for the decoder is partly wrong; CV2, CV5, CV6 and CV61 [VStart, VHigh, VMed, BEMF] are defined with default values but they are not changed from whatever value is set when the decoder is reset; they thus don't have defaults! In addition, CV29 [Configuration] is not reset either but no default is described, so although unusual [not being reset to a default value], it's not wrong! The phrase 'speed tables' is used, but I don't think 'they' [plural] really are: I believe only the CV2/6/5 table [singular] is supported. When I programmed a user table and set CV29 to 18 [DCC only; user table], the loco wouldn't work! Not exhaustively tested though. Hope this helps someone ... Regards - Julian PS My SprogII was a 'godsend' here for troubleshooting; I was quickly able to reset a number of CVs to 'funny' values [111, for instance], do a reset and quickly check the new values. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
laisdcc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Actually, GM, Hattons, DCC Concepts is the same CV list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpiliguri Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hi, if you search about a cheaper decoder take a look at this HK seller: search "DCC" on aliexpress.com.I buy 3 of this, they have the same CV list of TCS (MC4) or DCC Concepts (TS4SA), I use definition file of TCS MC4 in JMRI/DecoderPro3 (with SPROG II) without problem.BEMF work fine, no noise, you can deactivated BEMF always or at programmable speed.Interesting function to command motor at fixed speed with F2 and F3 (forward/reverse), for crane, turntable etc.Comprehensive programming guide here: http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Manuals/Comprehensive%20Programming%20Guide.pdfBuy at 10 euro (less than 8 GBP), shipping included (EU), at this price you can use like a function decoder (4 light function rated 150 mA).From vendor page:DCC LOCO DECODER WITH 4 FUNCTION FOR MODEL TRAIN-in RC Trains from Toys & Hobbies on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group http://s.click.aliexpress.com/klk/z2QzYnIbNEM 652 Male socket DCC LOCO DECODER WITH 4 FUNCTION FOR MODEL TRAIN-in RC Trains from Toys & Hobbies on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group http://s.click.aliexpress.com/klk/VriiAree Total support of all NMRA/NEM specifications Direct easy connection to exclusive Stay-Alive device. Super smooth high frequency silent drive motor control. Switchable DC running 2 or 4 digit addressing and 14, 28 or 128 speed steps. 2 or 4 active functions each safe to 150mA Support for all common programming & consist modes. Back EMF with step-variable or Fn button control. Fully adjustable motor control and function actions. Easily locked once adjustment or set-up is complete. All special lighting effects available All functions able to be re-allocated (remapped) as required. Heat-shrink insulated for short-free installation. Economical enough to use as lighting decoders. 1.0 amp continuous, 2.0 amp peak motor driveAt this price level I suggest to order one and try, wait 3 or 4 week for shipping. People talk about this decoder also in italian DCCworld forum and french Loco Revue forum. This is only a customer feedback, I am not associated with vendor! I always search cheaper solution for our hobby.And sorry for my scholastic English... Ciao, alpiliguri. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 ADVERT DELETED Ciao, alpiliguri. I'm sure there was a similar post yesterday from a new member advertising these decoders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpiliguri Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 How talk about a new product without fall in "advertising"? About me you can find my post on most know Italian (Duegi / Ferrovie.info / DCCWorld) and French (Loco Revue) forum, my nick is always "alpiliguri", when you read my posts you see that I am not a vendor, only a hobbyist that share his knowledge. Ciao, alpiliguri. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrook62 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hi all I have brought 3 of these 21pin decoders to replace Bachmann old blue decoders and have had no problems at all so it good thats someone releases such a good product that saves us money Regards mcrook62 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Al your questions n answers are from threads ive listed on various topics,in that there is no information anywhere on anything thats DCC things like the best decoder,what the best value decoder,what the best decoder to run with RTR models.Who produces the best DCC set,If a wh atto upgrade a DCC system can i ?.Questions like mine are all over yes none can give a definitive answer to any .We all have our opinions buy with all due respect they are not by n large professional 1s,professionals tend not to be involved in these topics.even ask the shops that sell them a lot dont even know the answers.Ive even asked the manufacturers what the difference is between their products n anothers. The reply Dont Know.Yes the answers in the realms of DCC products are as clear as mud Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Interestingly the Alibaba salesman sends a TCS data sheet to describe his decoders. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 And a couple of years ago, TCS were sending dealers in the UK official notices about not selling certain products which contained TCS' copyright code. The notices were under UK/EU customs regulations. ( I've read one of those notices ). Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Ah well, according to today's paper, there is now a Chinese clone of a Range Rover Evoque with photos to prove it, so decoders are just small beer. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I thought there was a Chinese clone of most things western. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Problem with Hatton's - DCR 8 pin Decoder After spending a lot of time fitting a Bachmann Tamper with DCC and lights using a Hatton's 8 pin decoder, I spent ages trying to work out why the decoder's address could not be read on a programming track - using a Lenz system. When the chassis was removed from the body, and the lighting wiring disconnected, I was amazed to find the address could now be read ! Very strange ! To cut a long story short, I eventually found that the problem was caused by the Aux 2 function output (Purple Wire). If Aux 2 is used, once connected it stops the decoder being programmed/used etc. The decoder will work perfectly as intended, provided Aux 2 is NOT connected. NB: This issue could well be a "batch" problem ? and may not affect all examples. Hopefully this will save someone else spending ages trying to figure out why the decoder will not programme, if/when the Aux 2 output is used. Regards Ken Update: Tested another one of these decoders today, it was faulty also, only in a different way. On this example the Aux 1 (Green Wire) does not work, but the Aux 2 (Purple Wire) does, but it can still be programmed/used, unlike the other example if you connect Aux 2. Anyone else had problems using the Aux 1 & 2 function outputs on these decoders. ? I've already informed Hatton's of these issues etc Edited February 13, 2015 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 How do the Hattons DCC Decoders cope with Heljan models? I'm thinking specifically of the higher current draw generally with Heljan models, does it cause any problems with the Hattons decoders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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