Pre-Group modelling

[mikeandnel]

Is there anyone out there modelling the pre-group component companies of the Southern Railway?

I am modelling S.E.R., L.C.D.R., S.E.C.R., L.B.S.C.R. and some L.S.W.R., all pre 1900 and all in EM Gauge, and I can't seem to find anyone of a like mind. Am I a voice crying in the wilderness?

I am fairly elderly (80!) and have fond memories of the old Southern Railway, but for me that is modern image, and I am dismayed at the never ending magazine articles that seem to place more importance on diesel or electric 'boxes'

I would be very happy to know that I am not alone!

mikeandnel

Edited July 14, 2013 by mikeandnel

[BG John]

Given unlimited time, space, money and energy, I'd like to model the North Devon Railway when it was mixed gauge, and I could run a mixture of LSWR and Bristol & Exeter Rly trains. But I can't see it happening!

[SRman]

I wouldn't class myself as a pre-grouping modeller but I have assembled, or am in the process of assembling, some pre-group trains, all in OO.

I have the Bachmann SECR 'C' class 0-6-0 with a train of private owner wagons, with a Roxey brass LCDR brake van still under construction.

A much older model is a Wills 'D' class 4-4-0 in pseudo-SECR livery (I couldn't manage the lining properly!).

 

There are two Roxey Grand Vitesse luggage vans which are being repainted into SECR red.

 

There are a couple of Cambrian Kits SECR Dance Hall brake vans but those are going into BR liveries (one as a ballast brake).

I also bought one of the LSWR liveried Hornby M7 0-4-4T locos some time back and have a rake of unbuilt Roxey LSWR coaches and luggage van awaiting my attention.

I also have an older Hornby LBSC E2 tank - in two minds as to whether it is worth converting to DCC. There are a couple of Hornby LBSC brake vans both in SR brown but one will be repainted to LBSC grey eventually - they aren't bad models when all is said and done.

Somewhere in bowels of the stock boxes I have a short rake of Ratio GWR 4-wheeler coaches converted crudely to 6-wheelers, representing rather generic pre-SR stock painted in olive green.

I don't know if this gives you any ideas. I have to say that I also model 'modern image' with those dreaded diesels and electrics, so that may push me down a bit in your estimation, Mikeandnel!!

Edited July 14, 2013 by SRman

[mikeandnel]

Thanks for the responses so far. Nice to know that I am not alone.

SRman, nice to hear what you are doing and many of your models seem to be identical to some of my later period efforts, although most of mine are either kit or scratch built. I missed out on the Bachmann 'C' class because I did not know that it was coming out, and to re-gauge it to EM would not have been much of a problem. I am told that it is a very good model but have never seen one in the flesh.

I have a kit-built 'C' class in full Wainwright livery, so that will have to do for me. So far I have built about 30 locos and maybe +/- 150 items of rolling stock, but don't really have much of an area to run them.

Anyway it would be nice to keep in touch with all of you and maybe bounce questions and comments off each other 

[burgundy]

I would be very happy to know that I am not alone!

mikeandnel

 

Mike

You are not alone!

You will also find that there is an update roughly every quarter of useful Brighton modelling materials under the SR Product News. 

Best wishes

Eric

[Jack]

I'm in the middle of a toddler inspired break atm, but my latest project is/was loosely based on the SECR in 7mm.  I also couldn't resist an SECR C, even though my 4mm interests lie in western region territory.

 

I seem to recall there are others on rmweb who have southern pre-grouping interests ...

[BG John]

I may be completely wrong, but my own impression is that the majority of modellers model an era they can personally remember, rather than era from before their birth.  The later requires careful research, but I find it satisfying.

I just missed out on the end of steam, and have been interested in the broad gauge since I got interested in railways when I was around 12 or 13, although I never expected to be able to model it. So the railways I've actually seen were modern, and at the time seemed rather boring, and the really interesting stuff was so old that it wasn't practical for me to model then. That's why I ended up trying to model the early 1900s as a compromise! In reality though, I ended up with rather a lot of 1930s stock as it was easier to acquire at the time! If I decided to model all this newfangled diesel stuff, it would probably be what I remember from the mid to late 60s though!

[mikeandnel]

Hello Eric, Paul, Jack & BGJohn

Nice to have the contacts and to hear what other people are doing in this direction.

I will try and upload a couple of photos, one for Eric (LCDR 'Brigand' class) and one for Paul (LSWR 'Radial') Sorry that the photos are not completely sharp but used my wife's camera. Hope to do better next time!

These are my efforts and I am happy with them. Perhaps they are not perfect as anything can always be improved.

Anyway Gentlemen, please keep posting. Nice to hear from you all

Mike

 

Edited July 17, 2013 by mikeandnel

[burgundy]

Mike

Current project is here ....and no, it is not an era that I can personally remember!

Best wishes

Eric

[trisonic]

I dunno, anyone modelling the Eastern Counties Railway is more rare, if I lived in England I might have a go....

 

Is anyone modelling the ECR?

 

Best, Pete.

[Southernboy]

Hello mikeandnel,

 

I like both (pre-war) Southern Railway and Pre-Grouping - so as a compromise have set my railway in South London 1923 - 1937.

 

My reasoning for 1923 as a start-date is that in the first year or two of Grouping much stock would still be running in pre-grouping liveries alongside trains in Southern railway colours. So that allows me the best of both worlds.

 

I believe some LBSCR AC electric sets were still running in Umber livery until 1929.

 

I chose 1937 as the end-date for my layout because I like 4-Cors.

 

It's still 'early days' for me in terms of having the stock I would like - but at the moment I am working on three ex-LSWR 3-Subs. I'd also like to build an example of a LSWR Bogie Block Set to contrast with the 3-Subs. I have a Union Mills T9 (in Southern Livery) which I love. Longer term I'd look to make some LBSCR AC sets and a set of Ironclads as well.

 

Anyway - you have some lovely locomotives there - quite impressive. I'm guessing these are 00? Do you have a layout to run them on? Or perhaps you use a club layout?

Edited July 14, 2013 by Southernboy

[mikeandnel]

Hello Southernboy

Thanks for your interest and comments.

Modelling electrics is some thing I have never tried and I wish you success.

All my stock is EM gauge and I only have a double track run round a room 10' square, but for me, most of the pleasure is in building stock, so most of my locos have never been run in except for the Wainwright liveried locos which were used on the three layouts that I exhibited round the circuit many years ago

Regards

Michael

[SRman]

The SECR 'C' in full livery (together with the BR black liveried version):

 

 

If you wish to see it in the flesh you will have to come to Melbourne ... where you will be welcomed!

A mate picked up a suitably old-fashioned crew for me on his recent trip to Britain. Once they are painted they will be added to the cab.

Edited July 15, 2013 by SRman

[Nick Holliday]

My main interest is modelling the LBSC in 18.83 around the turn of the century, and thanks ot all those manufacturers out there, have some of the most expensive loft insulation in the world!  I have managed to put enough together for my model of Fittleworth as seen here http://www.scalefour.org/layouts/fittleworth.html

I am looking forward to the next kits off the 5&9 production line, one of the few kit manufacturers actually supplying early Victorian rolling stock, so that, eventually, I will be able to run trains ranging in era from around 1870 through to grouping.

[mikeandnel]

To SR man

Many thanks for the photo. I might be able later to put up a photo of my kit-built 'C' class, but I am sure that the Bachmann probably has more detail than the one that I built!

 

To Nick Holliday

Thanks for the pictures of Fittleworth. Real atmosphereand living in Midhurst as I do, Fittleworth is just down the road from here.

Where are you located?

 

Michael

[bbishop]

Whilst my 7mm layouts are set in 1959 (Beaulieu ex LSWR) and 1960 (Höchstädt ex K.Bay.Sts.B.), I have a real interest in pre-grouping railways.  My main interest is the LSWR, but Mike Kennedy is building a 7mm model of Greenwich Croome Hill (based on Greenwich Park ex SECR).

 

The main variance from the prototype is the provision of a freight yard; which is where I come in, because I'm building the freight stock.  No photos at the moment but I will assemble some wagons soon but there will probably be a  Fränkische Schweiz background.

 

Bill

[SRman]

Another pic from me: the SECR 'D' 4-4-0/ This was an original Wills kit I bought second-hand as a non-runner. I replaced the handrails and knobs completely as the original builder had them running in a curve along the boiler, added better electrical pickups, added a spring to the front bogie to give better balance and retouched some of the paintwork, adding the indian red / brown frames as well (I mixed the colour myself!). It is still not an accurate rendition of the SECR livery but looks more representative than when I bought it.

 

Sorry for the reflections - it is behind glass. I should have taken it out to photograph it. I also didn't notice the tender wasn't on the track properly until I looked at the photo!

I had it on display at an exhibition here in Melbourne in the 1990s. While it predates my time considerably (I'm a 1950s child!), a lady came up to me and started reminiscing - she could remember the SECR days from her childhood. That was a really heart-warming moment for me and makes modelling like this all the more worthwhile.

Edited July 17, 2013 by SRman

[JimF51]

Michael, thank you, thank you, for starting this thread, I hope it doesn't die off to soon. My interest is the SER, LCDR, SECR and LBSC, the period from aprox 1890 to 1923. I realize that time span encompasses a lot of changes by the railways, but as I am in the US, and  won't be doing a layout for exhibition purposes, I can get away with a myriad of sins

I'm just starting out with, after a abscence from mrr of several years, so will be slow at 1st.

 

Thanks again.

 

Jim F

[mikeandnel]

JimF51

Nice to hear that you are modelling similar to my interest.

The only way this thread would die out is if other modellers stopped posting to it.

One of the ways that it could be kept going would be by showing modellers the beauty of rolling stock in that period of time by putting photos of various of our models on to the forum (warts and all!) in order to generate comment.

Have you anything to show? I intend to photograph all my models and upload them every now and again if anyone is interested.

Keep in touch

Michael

[mikeandnel]

For JimF51 and anyone else who might be interested

I have tried to attach a few photos of some of my older efforts as dollows:

LCDR 'R' class 0-4-4 

 

LCDR 'T' class 0-6-0

 

SECR 'J' class 0-6-4

 

Early Well Tank for our LSWR friends..

 

Hope the photos spark some comment and debate

 

Michae;

[JimF51]

Alas, I have nothing to take picyutes of, to show, yet. Am still working my way thru scale/gauge info, trying to decide which to work in. Thanks for posting your pics, Michael, the whet the appetite.

 

Jim F

[1ngram]

Well, I model pre grouping but at the very other end of the country.  I model the Great North of Scotland Railway, WW1 era - and in H0 not 00.  That means mainly scratch and kit built locos plus a few conversions from 00, kit built 6-wheel coaches from Worsley and  making wagons and vans from 3D printing and resin.  But its fun!

 

My own bete noir is the fixation on the era when everything was dirty and rusty - 50s/60s.  In the pre grouping era, even during the war, railway companies took pride in their locos and coaches and kept them reasonably clean and regularly repainted.  A little weathering is fine, especially if you are depicting a fish train steaming through the morning haar on the Buchan coast line, but depicting every loco rusting away to scrap isn't my idea of fun.

[mikeandnel]

1Ngram

I completely agree with you about cleanliness of stock.

As I understand it, the logic of building and painting and lining a loco is pointless if you are then going to make it dirty.

In the pre-grouping era locomotives and rolling stock were kept clean by an army of cleaners, and there is even a rcord

of engine drivers locking their locomotives after shift so that no other driver could use it, This appears in some cases to have been company policy.

Anyway, pre-group, whether in the north of Scotland or south of England or wherever, is much more interesting to me because of all the different variations that can be modelled. Not just coloured diesel or electic 'boxes'!

Enjoy your modelling

Michael

[jwealleans]

I'm not a southern modeller by inclination, but as part of my volunteering for the National Trust I help operate and maintain a layout of Corfe Castle station in the very late LSWR era. This was the personal layout of the late Ron Rising, who modelled for Pendon in the 1970s and 1980s. Ron presented the layout to the Trust when an impending house move meant it was going to become homeless.

 

Stock from the layout which I've repaired or new stock I've built can be seen on my workbench thread and more information is available here.

Edited July 18, 2013 by jwealleans

[Poggy1165]

My main modelling interest is the Great Central in 7mm scale. However I have a lot of (too many?) 'foreign' wagons as I find them irresistible.

 

Also irresistible was the LSWR G6 kit that I bought recently and intend to finish in LSWR condition. What place this will have on an obscure GC branch well to the north of Annesley I really can't imagine, but a lot of odd things went on during WW1.