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Mazamet-Bedarieux, Languedoc


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Having just enjoyed a holiday in the Languedoc near Ollargues, I became conscious of the former railway line between Mazamet and Bedarieux which is now a 'voie verte' used for walking and cycling. Apart from finding out it closed to passengers in 1972 and freight in the late 80s, can anyone suggest any books or other sources of historical information on the line (doesn't matter if in French).

 

The former station in Ollargues, now a garage and post office:

 

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The iron bridge at Ollargues built by Eiffel:

 

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Ornate protective fences at culverts now replaced by 'safer' substitutes:

 

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Station at La Trivalle, now a tourist information office:

 

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Bridge at Lamalou-les-Bains. Even the Ouse Valley Viaduct hasn't got any of these!

 

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We lived in a tent by Lac Salagou back in the summer of 1980, and 'happened ' upon this line; even then, at the Bedarieux end, it seemed not to have been used for a long while. I believe it used to serve a coalfield; at that time there were still active mine workings at Le Bousquet-d'Orb.

Brian

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Good source of information will be:

trains Oublies (sorry this pane does not accept accents) by J Banaudo  pub Editions du Cabri.  Volume ?? covering the Midi.

 

Unfortunately the series is long out of print and second hand copies are as rare as hen's teeth.   A library might be able to source a copy for you.

I now regret only buying the PLM volume (Volume2).

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There is a similar line near where I live, it runs from Oradour sur Vayres to Chalus along 13km and is great for cycling.

 

At the Chalus end it turns into a Velo-Rail to Bussiere Galant, little carts you pedal along the line.

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Good source of information will be:

trains Oublies (sorry this pane does not accept accents) by J Banaudo  pub Editions du Cabri.  Volume ?? covering the Midi.

 

Unfortunately the series is long out of print and second hand copies are as rare as hen's teeth.   A library might be able to source a copy for you.

I now regret only buying the PLM volume (Volume2).

Crikey - a quick look on Price Minister says you are right! 58 euros is the cheapest volume 2 (PLM) while PO-Midi is 88! I bought his work on X-3800 Picassos a couple of years ago for a much cheaper price and have been very pleased.

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For a while in the 90s, a group was trying to run a CF Touristique along the Bedarieux to Lamalou section.

 

I can't remember at which station (I might jog my memory by looking at Michelin map), the station building and goods shed had become a cafe/restaurant. I visited for post-match drinks.

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A further snippet from another Jose Banaudo book - Sur les rails des Causses et des Cevennes - pub.  Editions Cabri:

 

In discussing Bedarieux station, states that in the early 1870s the Cie du Midi  planned a transverse  route between Montpellier and Montauban via Paulhan, Bedarieux, Mazamet, Castres and St. Sulpice.  So although Bedarieux certainly owes its railway prominence due to the local mines, it looks as if this line was planned for a different purpose.

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Having just been back to the same place on holiday (Mons La Trivalle), I fancy a little HO layout based on this line.  Now I know very little about French railways, but something involving a steam locomotive, a diesel railcar and maybe a diesel loco with associated stock would be nice.  So that would have to be 1960s?  What options for locos and stock would I have?

 

I've hummed and haaad about the Trains Oublies book but 90 euros for what I think is just 10 pages on this route seems a bit steep.  I have however ordered '50 ans de voyages en France' for some general pics (which may or may not include anything directly relevant).

 

Any info or pointers gratefully received.

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Having just been back to the same place on holiday (Mons La Trivalle), I fancy a little HO layout based on this line.  Now I know very little about French railways, but something involving a steam locomotive, a diesel railcar and maybe a diesel loco with associated stock would be nice.  So that would have to be 1960s?  What options for locos and stock would I have?

 

I've hummed and haaad about the Trains Oublies book but 90 euros for what I think is just 10 pages on this route seems a bit steep.  I have however ordered '50 ans de voyages en France' for some general pics (which may or may not include anything directly relevant).

 

Any info or pointers gratefully received.

I don't think it would have been steam after the late 1950s- SNCF were pretty quick at getting rid of the smaller steam locos that would have been used on such branches. I'd suggest that, in the 1960s, it would have been one of what later became the 63000 class of diesel electrics. Paradoxically, once the train got as far as Beziers, it would probably have passed to a 1-4-1R on the main line.

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I know this area well, having lived for three years near Béziers.  I have cycled the length of the voie verte (greenway) though it has since been extended east toward Bedarieux.

 

Yes, the lines in this area were primarily built to serve coal mines and bauxite mines.  The former are to the north of Herepian/Bedarieux and have featured in a piece I wrote some time ago:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87321-graissessac/

 

I have picked up the odd lump of coal for my OO gauge tenders (suitably crushed of course).

 

The bauxite mines were to have been extended by the Germans during occupation but nothing material seems to have happened then or since.  The bauxite is a bright orange red color, though it should not be confused with the red desert rocks around Lac du Salagou.

 

Ownership of the various lines in Herault Department varied, with the Midi being an extension of the PLM beyond Sete.  This company didn't bother with small towns and villages but simply extended the main line west to Béziers and Narbonne.  A local company built all the local lines and there were many at one time.  Many of the buildings still remain as well as bridges and even tunnels (as seen on the piste verte).

 

The only evidence of steam on these lines is a plinthed locomotive and carriage on the side of a roundabout in Montpellier - it is just north of the current Montpellier Centre exit from A9 and can be seen on the usual map/satellite services.

 

Bedarieux boasts one of the longest disused stoner viaducts in France as well as a fine, now grossly under-utilized, station.  The new road from Béziers to Herepian means that the future of local rail transport is doomed.

 

Here is a useful map of the rail system in Herault:

 

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I knew there'd been some railways in the hinterland, but didn't realise there'd been that many. In 1979, on the first of our two extended stays around Salagou, we went looking for work around Paulhan. The line to Montpelier was still in situ, serving as a store for disused freight wagons. At that point, there was seasonal table-grape traffic from Clermont l'Herault, but that didn't stop the locals playing boules in the middle of the goods yard..

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Thanks both, that's all very useful (oddly enough I'm also a geologist ...).

 

The 63000s are nice, any chance of a 67000/67500?  How about diesel railcars?  What might the last steam locos on the line have been (I can be quite flexible!).

 

We drove past Salagou last week on the way back from having a visit to the Millau viaduct, strange terrain, but I didn't know about the coal and bauxite background let alone uranium at Lodeve, somewhere else we drove through after coming up from Bedarieux via Lunas.

 

It's a shame there is no equivalent of a Mitchell & Smith series of line histories!

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I think that through passenger traffic in later years was handled by the small railcar classes: X5600 (FNC) or X5500/5800 (Mobylette). But an X3800 (Picasso) would not look out of place. (EDIT: Just found an article on the line, with photos, via Google. That shows an X2800. Logical choice for a steeply-graded route if trailers were needed for peak loads e.g. market days)

 

There would have been some loco-hauled trains for spa traffic to Lamalou-les-Bains. These would have arrived at Bedarieux behind electric locos. I agree that unlikely that there would still have been steam so the most likely loco to take on loco-hauled passengers would be a BB66000 (with a boiler van if running in autumn/winter/spring).

 

Freight most likely a BB66000 or, as mentioned, a BB63000. I would not rule out an A1A-A1A62000. These were used in the region, particularly on Perpignan-Quillan-Carcassonne.

 

I think that I have a photo of a branch train for Lamalou at Bedarieux. If I can find it, I will let you know what it was. Won't be able to post as it will be a slide.

 

I learned only recently that the Midi originally planned its line to Cette (as Sete was spelled back then) to run along the more direct and easier route from Carcassonne to Beziers. That opens up the possibility of a very interesting "might-have-been" layout for a junction station, probably at Salleles d'Aude, on this route for the line to Narbonne, Perpignan and the Spanish border.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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The only evidence of steam on these lines is a plinthed locomotive and carriage on the side of a roundabout in Montpellier - it is just north of the current Montpellier Centre exit from A9 and can be seen on the usual map/satellite services.

 

OK found that - quite cute, but would that be a local Herault loco as the coach is marked, rather than Midi, or did they all just buy locos off the peg?

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Lovely photographs, mind you, I think Buffers ( model shop in Axminster) might have something to say about that viaduct ! :)

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I learned only recently that the Midi originally planned its line to Cette (as Sete was spelled back then) to run along the more direct and easier route from Carcassonne to Beziers. That opens up the possibility of a very interesting "might-have-been" layout for a junction station on this route for the line to Narbonne, Perpignan and the Spanish border.

Would this alignment be closer to what is now planned for the LGV from Montpellier to Narbonne to Perpignan?

 

Although yet to be finalized (and who knows when!) the LGV is currently being extended west south of Nimes and Monpellier.  It will then cross the existing line to Sete and pass north of the massif of Gigean towards Béziers, again crossing the existing Midi Line just east of Béziers.  It will (maybe) again cross the Midi line near Nissan lez Ensérune and aim north of Narbonne, curving south toward inhospitable terrane in the Corbieres and connect with the existing LGV west of Perpignan.

 

There is a continuing tussle as to how many stations will exist along the new LGV.  The Departments of Aude and Herault want at least two, one each for Béziers and Narbonne.  The Federal Government favors having only one station as a new interchange near Nissan lez Ensérune so that TGVs can connect with TERs serving the local communities.  Artist's impressions of this interchange have been posted to the internet.

 

I have not seen any mention of how existing TGVs would access the line from Narbonne to Toulouse.  Toulouse may be the least well served city on the SNCF network, possibly because it is the center for the aerospace industry.

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Would this alignment be closer to what is now planned for the LGV from Montpellier to Narbonne to Perpignan?

 

Although yet to be finalized (and who knows when!) the LGV is currently being extended west south of Nimes and Monpellier.  It will then cross the existing line to Sete and pass north of the massif of Gigean towards Béziers, again crossing the existing Midi Line just east of Béziers.  It will (maybe) again cross the Midi line near Nissan lez Ensérune and aim north of Narbonne, curving south toward inhospitable terrane in the Corbieres and connect with the existing LGV west of Perpignan.

 

There is a continuing tussle as to how many stations will exist along the new LGV.  The Departments of Aude and Herault want at least two, one each for Béziers and Narbonne.  The Federal Government favors having only one station as a new interchange near Nissan lez Ensérune so that TGVs can connect with TERs serving the local communities.  Artist's impressions of this interchange have been posted to the internet.

 

I have not seen any mention of how existing TGVs would access the line from Narbonne to Toulouse.  Toulouse may be the least well served city on the SNCF network, possibly because it is the center for the aerospace industry.

 

The reason that the Midi wanted to build along the direct route from Carcassonne to Beziers (paralleling the Canal du Midi and the N610) was 1) that it was shorter and 2) to avoid an awkward stretch of line through a north-eastern outcrop of the Corbieres.

 

I have not studied the now-delayed LGV route from Montpellier to Perpignan but I think that it would run somewhat to the south of the original Midi proposal and much closer to Narbonne.

With a lot of recent residential development to the west and south of Narbonne, finding a suitable route for the LGV is going to be quite challenging.

 

With regard to Toulouse, some sort of link will no doubt be provided from the LGV as Marseille/Lyon to Toulouse is regarded as an important, busy traffic flow. Poor rail connectivity between Paris and Toulouse is just a factor of the mountainous terrain of central France with trains having to take the direct route (slow) via Brive or the long route via Bordeaux. The times by TGV from Paris to Toulouse will drop rapidly by 2020 with the extension of LGV Atlantique to Bordeaux and then a cut off route towards Toulouse. Then it will no longer be worth flying from Blagnac to Orly as the TGV will offer a quicker centre-to-centre journey.

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Freight most likely a BB66000 or, as mentioned, a BB63000. I would not rule out an A1A-A1A62000. These were used in the region, particularly on Perpignan-Quillan-Carcassonne.

 

 

I think the A1A-A1A62000 series came South later.  The earliest list of SNCF diesel depot allocations I have is from 1979, when the whole class were scattered around the Nord and Est regions (shared between Lens, La Plaine, Strasbourg and Thionville).

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You could always bend history a bit, and have some of those smaller diesels the Americans left behind, such as Whitcombs and GE 44-tonners. A lot of the former survived with FS until fairly recently, whilst the Bouche du Rhône and some industrial users had the GE locos. I think the CF d'Herault might have had some..

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I think the A1A-A1A62000 series came South later.  The earliest list of SNCF diesel depot allocations I have is from 1979, when the whole class were scattered around the Nord and Est regions (shared between Lens, La Plaine, Strasbourg and Thionville).

 

No, earlier. They were on the Perpignan-Quillan line (by then cut back to St Martin Lys) in the 50s (therefore probably from new). They would  have moved north sometime in the 1960s to join others already there.

 

My only personal experience of 62000s is seeing them in the North and riding behind one on a through coaches portion (Calais Maritime - Port Bou) around the Petite Ceinture.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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I think I'm going to bend history quite a bit just to make a 'suggestion' of the area.  I'll probably electrify the line west of Bedarieux in the process ...  ;)

 

There was a Z7100 model available recently from Atlas which would be ideal for that. But the Midi also had some lovely older EMUs some of which lasted until the 1970s. Midi catenary is truly difficult to model though.

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No, earlier. They were on the Perpignan-Quillan line (by then cut back to St Martin Lys) in the 50s (therefore probably from new). They would  have moved north sometime in the 1960s to join others already there.

 

My only personal experience of 62000s is seeing them in the North and riding behind one on a through coaches portion (Calais Maritime - Port Bou) around the Petite Ceinture.

Thanks, Joseph.  Similarly I did a couple of 62000 moves from Nord to Lyon around the Ceinture in the early 'seventies (whereas it was a coach transfer from Nord to Austerlitz to catch a sleeper to Cerbere/Port Bou).

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A chap called Chris Elliott wrote and published in 2008 a good book called Les lignes disparues de l'Herault. It is full of information, maps and photos about the railways of the region. I think he can be contacted by the SNCF society.

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