Mazamet-Bedarieux, Languedoc

[10800]

 Midi catenary is truly difficult to model though.

 

For a secondary line, would the OHLE currently found around Bedarieux be the same as it was in the 60s?  (I've seen some pics of Midi catenary on main lines, see what you mean!). 

[Fat Controller]

For a secondary line, would the OHLE currently found around Bedarieux be the same as it was in the 60s?  (I've seen some pics of Midi catenary on main lines, see what you mean!). 

In the late 1970s/early 1980s, at least some sections of line still had the 'Ogee' portal structures, IIRC. They looked somewhat over-specified for a (very) rural secondary line.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ligne+des+Causses+photos&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&imgil=By5h48vYjDQgIM%253A%253BioZw4MPpUc5pQM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fforums.photos-de-trains.net%25252Fviewtopic.php%25253Ft%2525253D13042&source=iu&pf=m&fir=By5h48vYjDQgIM%253A%252CioZw4MPpUc5pQM%252C_&usg=__NGF9VqDO2cibTlfvT04tED6yJVk%3D&ved=0CDQQyjdqFQoTCKTJlILHisYCFaUV2wodnzgAQg&ei=_wV7VeTNG6Wr7Aaf8YCQBA#imgrc=By5h48vYjDQgIM%253A%3BioZw4MPpUc5pQM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi86.servimg.com%252Fu%252Ff86%252F12%252F46%252F45%252F08%252Fcausse10.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforums.photos-de-trains.net%252Fviewtopic.php%253Ft%253D13042%3B550%3B368 seems to have a few photos.

[rue_d_etropal]

I have an interest in the area because I bought a house in St Pons. Unfortunately the 'preserved train service; had stopped by the time I found the line, but some of the track was still in place, although I only found out too late. The whole route is now a cycle way, but rails are still in place on one level crossing.A bit surprising considering how much money is spent resurfacing the roads locally.

The book by Chris Elliott was for sale in local tourist information centre so I bought a copy. I was exhibiting at Liverpool exhibition soon after that trip to France and by coincidence there was someone there who used to visit France every year and told me he had helped with the book. I think Chris now actually lives in the valley, but I have not made contact with him yet. I have noticed talks about the railway advertised, but usually for when I am not there.

Last year I started doing some research on the metre gauge lines to the south, centering on Carcassonne, with intension of building a model inspired by these lines which had closed down in the 30s. There was a reference to a new book being published, and also one on the line through St Pons. I also found that there had been plans for a direct route down to St Chinian.passing St Pons, which never went further than plans. Given the local geography, it would have not been cheap, but probably spectacular.

I will certainly be keeping an eye out for books on the local railway lines. My metre gauge interest then actually switched to Provence, and the electrified lines based in Arles, not far from where my brother lives.

One interesting result of the introduction of railways in the area was diet, and a switch from using flour made from chestnuts to flour from grain, which could be brought in by train.

[JeffP]

I have quite a few photos of the Chemins de Fer de la Provence, circa 1990's. Very atmospheric little railway.

[Joseph_Pestell]

For a secondary line, would the OHLE currently found around Bedarieux be the same as it was in the 60s?  (I've seen some pics of Midi catenary on main lines, see what you mean!). 

 

Further north, some of the catenary was replaced quite recently (2010?). Pure Midi until then.

 

The ogives are easy enough to model for single track so long as your curves are not too tight. But they are difficult to get right for double-track unless you go to scale track spacing - which needs very large curve radii.

 

I am fairly sure that there is still some Midi catenary on lines in the Pyrenees. The particularly interesting feature is that it is tensioned in such a way that the contact wire follows the curve of the track.

[rue_d_etropal]

JeffP

 

I have quite a few photos of the Chemins de Fer de la Provence, circa 1990's. Very atmospheric little railway.

 

I take it that is of the remains, as the railway closed in the late 50s. I have managed to collect a lot online, but unfortunately missed the anniversary event a few years ago, and could not get a copy of the book produced. Luckily I do have the excellent feature in a magazine produced in the 70s, and probably not much different to the book.

The station buildings and works still exist in Arles(or did the last time I looked on Google Map) and I intend to build a model of a small part of the station(buffer stops and station buildings across to the old water tower). I have some photos, but need dimensions. It is a pity the standard gauge line that runs west from near there is disused. I think there have been proposals for some type of museum line.

[JeffP]

There is still part of that railway extant, running from Nice (Gare du Sud) to Dignes, although Gare du Sud proper closed a few years agao, to be replaced with a more modern, yet characterless, station.

 

There is a small works at Lingostiere, just outside Nice in the valley of the Var.

 

Older unit at Gare du Sud, circa August 1994.

 

Even older unit at Lingostiere works, works building in the background. Same date.

 

Older diesel "D" wheel arrangement, dumped in a headshunt at Lingostiere. Same date.

[rue_d_etropal]

must be the heat, I was thinking of the other end of Provence , namely the Camargue. I tend to think of that as more Provence than the area around Nice. Nice is almost as far from Arles as Beziers the other way.

[Fat Controller]

JeffP

I take it that is of the remains, as the railway closed in the late 50s. I have managed to collect a lot online, but unfortunately missed the anniversary event a few years ago, and could not get a copy of the book produced. Luckily I do have the excellent feature in a magazine produced in the 70s, and probably not much different to the book.

The station buildings and works still exist in Arles(or did the last time I looked on Google Map) and I intend to build a model of a small part of the station(buffer stops and station buildings across to the old water tower). I have some photos, but need dimensions. It is a pity the standard gauge line that runs west from near there is disused. I think there have been proposals for some type of museum line.

This is the Chemin de Fer du Bouches du Rhone- nowadays called CDF13 (13 being the Department number). It exists as two separate sections.

The eastern one, at Arles, consists of the former wagon works and loco shed, which has received a 'lifting' recently- amongst other things, it acts as as a 'Service Station' for the locos of Europorte and other open access operators. The adjacent branch to Fontveille hosts a seasonal tourist service, I believe.

The western part from Trinquitaille towards Lecailar (on the line to Le Grau-Du-Roi) is currently 'not exploited', according to my most recent maps; it was this line that relied on some ex-USATC GE 44-tonners until quite recently. Looking at the aerial views on 'Bing', the track seems to still be present and in relatively good condition.

The reason for this inconvenient split of operations is that the Allies bombed the bridge over the Rhone at Arles, prior to 'Operation Torch'; there may have been some sort of temporary structure post-invasion, but it was gone even when we worked around the area 30+ years ago.

[rue_d_etropal]

is the passenger service still running on the line to Fontveille. My brother lives about 5min down the road so I have driven across the 'level crossing' to the works in the woods on many occasions. Last time I was there the number of wagons was much reduced. Never have found out what the depot was for.

The destruction of the bridge over the river in Arles did not help the Cf de Camargue much as the transhipment sidings were connected to the line which ran over the bridge. The area around the Camargue was not as prosperous as it is now. The town of St Marie has totally obliterated the site of the old station. If the line had survived another 10 years I am sure it would have been either preserved or upgraded. I had seen the railway embankment when driving round there but had assumed it was an old standard gauge line, only discovering it was not only metre gauge but also electrified last year. I have passed the old station at Arles many times, but only on the new main road, so usually wizzed pass without realising it was there. Apart from Nimes station, none of the other stations are really that interesting for a model. The layout at Nimes would not be easy to model, which is why I want to model the buffer end of the station at Arles, as there is always an excuse to shunt wagons down there, as well as running the loco (/baggage car)  hauled trains and the automotrices. I have drawings of most of the stock  I want, plus full dimensions of the 'modern' Decauville coaches. I plan to produce the models using 3D printing, initial9for a test) in 1/76 scale on 12mm gauge as I have a suitable loco chassis, and then in 1/55th scale using 16.5mm gauge.

The area around Arles and the Camargue is special to me, and finding the railway is the icing on the cake. My artwork is inspired by the local Santon figures(there is a museum in village next to where my brother lives) , although it was the buildings I prefer to create, and I have used this in some of my fictional model railways. This is one reason I am not rushing with this project. A minor consideration, but one fact alludes me and that is the colour of the locos and coaches. The Decauville coach is almost certainly aluminium, but suspect the locos are either green or red. There don't appear to be any colour photos around which is a pity. It does make an interesting project though.

[10800]

Resurrecting this thread as I've just been down there on holiday again.

 

Measured up this crossing keeper's house at St Martin de l'Arcon for a future project, much to the amusement of passing cyclists on the voie verte ('Vous l'achetez?'). This also has what appear to be conserved 'roll-across' gates.

 

 

This seems to be the pattern for smaller stations on the line too, such as Colombieres-sur-Orb. There is a resin kit for something very similar by Artitec, but I think I'll make my own.

 

The bigger centres like Olargues have more substantial station buildings. This is the former station at Mons La Trivalle, now part of the mayor's office.

 

 

Bedarieux was very pleasant with its overall roof

 

 

 

 

 

We took a ride to Millau on this service from Beziers to Clermont Ferrand, with Z7300 17364.

 

 

At Millau there were still some old Midi catenary 'hoops'

 

 

We came back on Z2 97383

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by 10800

[Focalplane]

Great pictures!  Did you go over the Viaduc de Gabarit?  Is it open?

 

When driving on the A75 north of Millau the Midi "hoops" can be seen in a number of places.

[Gordonwis]

Great pictures!  Did you go over the Viaduc de Gabarit?  Is it open?

 

When driving on the A75 north of Millau the Midi "hoops" can be seen in a number of places.

 

 

 

No, '10800's  journey was north to Millau. The Viaduc de Garabit is a long way north of Millau.

 

The Viaduc de Garabit is still used - just! It sees one passenger train each way a  day (the Z2 unit that '10800' travelled on, which is the Intercites service formerly called the ' Aubrac') , plus the 67400 diesel hauled steel coils twice a week.

 

There are many miles of the Ligne des Causses which still have the Ogives  (the proper name for the 'hoops') 

 

 

.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Gordonwis

[rue_d_etropal]

Nice pictures, it is an area I am interested as I have a house in St Pons. Although there is a standard design (with variations for different regions), what surprised me is the pitch of the roof, and lack of window shutters.

The boundary between Mediteranean and Atlantic weather zones is between St Pons and Mazamet. It does actually make quite a difference, and most buildings in the Med zone do have lower pitched roofs. that is except the railway stations which seem to keep to a higher pitched roof. for smaller buildings. Pitch on larger buildings does seem to be less though.

The lack of shutters does surprise me on some station buildings. Unfortunately it is not uncommon to see modern roller type shutters, but it is usually possible to see the original fittings, if they existed .

Looking carefully at the two stations, one obviousy has traditional full shutters, but the other where they are missing, still has the locking hooks, and by their position, I think the shutters might have been the folding type. I have both types on my house.

From a modelling point of view, I have studied a lot of drawings and came to conclusion that doors and windows were often to a standard size, enabling scale drawings to be made.

Edited June 11, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[10800]

Well, planning for this layout is progressing steadily but slowly (in view of other modelling commitments which need dealing with first). However, I have bought a couple of Tim Horn's modular baseboards to give me a six foot scenic section (I'd like to be able to get it in the car), and have also been accumulating some stock.

 

So far I have an X2800 autorail, a 141TA steam loco, a 63000 diesel and a BB300 electric, all Roco; some Piko wagons; some Fleischmann all-steel 6-wheel coaches; and a France-Trains 3rd class coach which needs some TLC. I joined the French Railways Society and have borrowed various books on the railways of the Languedoc and the PO-Midi, and bought some others from which my wallet is still complaining. I'm still attracted to the St Pons-Bedarieux line, which I will assume was electrified for my purposes and interests, and have just looked at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68311-layout-planning-help/ for some background on how track layouts were done in France (lots of parallel lines!).

 

Was there a standard equivalent in France for our six-foot? They look to be typically a bit further apart from photos. And what is the regulation platform height? Signalling remains a mystery at the moment, with apparently much more use of fixed boards and chef de gare instructions rather than what we are used to in the UK, especially for a secondary line.

 

I'm hoping to make the next FRS gathering in Lenham in January to find out more.

[Andy Hayter]

Essentially there is no standard platform height.  WE have discussed this before so if you do a search you may well find the topic.

 

Heights have ranged from below rail level (minor stations on secondary lines and now probably extinct apart from preserved lines) to level with the door bottoms to allow direct wheelchair access ( much more modern).

[Focalplane]

I have cycled along the Piste Verte from near Bedarieux towards St. Pons and there is very little infrastructure left, though several station buildings have been passed on to other uses and the bridges and most of the tunnels are still open for cycling and walking.  There is one tunnel that is closed, necessitating a sudden change of gears to climb and then push on up a very steep route over the obstruction.  There is the Eiffel bridge, of course, nicely preserved and painted red.

 

Was the line electrified?  I don't know, there is no evidence left to suggest it was.  But that doesn't mean it could have been electrified!

[10800]

 

Was the line electrified?  I don't know, there is no evidence left to suggest it was.  But that doesn't mean it could have been electrified!

 

 

No it wasn't, but I am assuming for my purposes (I like electrics) that it was!

[Andy Hayter]

It would have been a line ripe for electrification had the fusion with the PO and then nationalisation not come along.  The Midi philosophy for electrification was exactly the reverse of what is preached today.  Lines with low traffic levels being high on the priority list since electric stock was cheaper to run and more efficient than a steam loco that needed 4-6hours preparation before it could set off.

[rue_d_etropal]

At least the trackbed stilll exists, not built on, and those cyclists could always be displaced by big iron(electric) trains again.

The line was always a bit of a backwter. There were proposals to build a line from west of St Pons down to St Chinian, as that was were the traffic wanted to go, but it would have been a pretty difficult engineering challenge . When buses were introduced, that was the preferred route, and it did not help the railway. There is still a bus that follows the railway route, but less regular.

[JeffP]

Damn! Beziers to Millau.....missed that bit when on a Eurodomino.

 

Came in on a Clermont Ferrand-Beziers service OK, but it terminated at Millau and we got bussed to Montpellier where I caught another train back to Beziers. I was looking forward to coming into Beziers in daylight over the flyover which straddles tha mainline to theEast, near Beziers works.

 

Instead i got a french woman driving a crammed coach, who insisted on taking her eyes off the road to look at her companion as she talked to her....NOT good on the very twisty and steep section south out of Millau.....

 

Never have got that section....

[ianp]

Damn! Beziers to Millau.....missed that bit when on a Eurodomino.

 

Came in on a Clermont Ferrand-Beziers service OK, but it terminated at Millau and we got bussed to Montpellier where I caught another train back to Beziers. I was looking forward to coming into Beziers in daylight over the flyover which straddles tha mainline to theEast, near Beziers works.

 

Instead i got a french woman driving a crammed coach, who insisted on taking her eyes off the road to look at her companion as she talked to her....NOT good on the very twisty and steep section south out of Millau.....

 

Never have got that section....

 

How very annoying. The CF to Beziers journey is most enjoyable, especially in the new-ish railcars they use. Slow (due to continuous speed restrictions) but very comfortable, providing fantastic views of the scenery. Are they still one a day in each direction?

 

Pic 1: Leaving Clermont Ferrand in the morning.

 

Pic 2: Staying for a few moments at Bedarieux in the afternoon.

Edited November 7, 2017 by ianp

[FoxFrance]

No, '10800's  journey was north to Millau. The Viaduc de Garabit is a long way north of Millau.

 

The Viaduc de Garabit is still used - just! It sees one passenger train each way a  day (the Z2 unit that '10800' travelled on, which is the Intercites service formerly called the ' Aubrac') , plus the 67400 diesel hauled steel coils twice a week.

 

There are many miles of the Ligne des Causses which still have the Ogives  (the proper name for the 'hoops') 

 

 

.

A couple of nigh-time photos  & info about the Viaduct de Gabarit - go to ; midiphotobank.com/gallery/bydate/2014/05/13

[FoxFrance]

 

A couple of night-time photos  & info about the Viaduct de Gabarit - go to ; http://www.midiphotobank.com/gallery/bydate/2014/05/13 - plus the next day

[FoxFrance]

How very annoying. The CF to Beziers journey is most enjoyable, especially in the new-ish railcars they use. Slow (due to continuous speed restrictions) but very comfortable, providing fantastic views of the scenery. Are they still one a day in each direction?

 

Pic 1: Leaving Clermont Ferrand in the morning.

 

Pic 2: Staying for a few moments at Bedarieux in the afternoon.

Béziers to Millau - map of the section between Bédarieux and Millau - if you go to : http://www.midiphotobank.com/gallery/bydate/2017/11/25 - you will see photos of the rail journey