Bachmann Desiro 350

[Guest]

My friend and I are at our wits end trying to solve a problem with my Bachmann 350 Desiro oo gauge. And hope someone on this forum can help.

 

I bought the Desiro and installed a Bachmann 3 function decoder  (code 36-554). All seemed to work well. A friend and I then installed a Loksound 4 sound decoder. That’s when the problems started.

 

Initially the head and tail lights and carriage lights in the non-drive carriages would not work. The lights in the drive carriage were working but could not be turned off.

 

It was then suggested we reset the decoder –8  into CV8. Then more problems started. To cut a long story short.

 

With the basic decoder inserted, there are no lights – internal and head/tail. But the train operates.

With the sound decoder there are no lights, the functions are now all over the place and no longer match the original list. We also seem to have ‘lost’ the horn sounds which were previously function 2 and 3. but the train seems to be operating ok.

 

We tried a blanking plug and ran it on DC – trains moved but no lights.

 

We then tried both decoders in another 21 pin Bachmann train. Same problems – train moved no internal lights and no head /tail lights. The shop we bought the sound decoder off assures us it was tested before being sent to me.

 

We cannot work out what caused the problem. It seems unlikely that both decoder were duff so is the problem with the pcb corrupting the decoders? We are reluctant to put in new  decoders in case the problem ruins the new ones.

 

We checked the order of the carriage and that is OK. We also made sure the connectors were the right way up. And we put a small charge to the lights in the carriages and they are working.

 

Any advice would be appreciated as we really are at a loss as to what to try next.

 

Cheers

Ssamm 

 

 

[Guest]

Any suggestions?

[Xerces Fobe2]

I have had similar problems Bachmann DMU' s with the lights. The problem is that there are connections between the body and the chassis for the light s and when you dismantle the unit to fit a decider you break the connection (which is only the to connections touching each other!) When you re-assemble the unit it is very easy to refit the unit body incorrectly and not notice it and this results in light connections not meeting up.

Check that the body and chassis are fitted corrected and there is no droop at the ends. If everything looks OK disassemble the unit, locate the lighting contact and check that they are not bent and re-adjust if necessary.

You may have to do this a few times until you get in right- It took me over 2 hours to fit decoders to my Derby Lightweight units!

 

IMO Bachmann models are are always look the part, however their Achilles Heel  is decoder fitting which spoils the initial delight when you receive your latest model.

 

Lets hope the guys at Barwell will come up with more robust solution to the nightmare of fitting DC chips to their models in the future!

 

XF

[SRman]

You are correct about the contacts to the lighting strips in the roofs, Nigel, but the Desiros don't actually require the body to be removed to fit a decoder. In their case, there is a small 'box' under the motorised coach retained by one screw. The decoder (and any speaker for sound fitting) fit into the area covered by this box.

[BromsMods]

Am I right in assuming you have the 21-pin decoder installed the right way up??  See https://clarahost.clara.net/www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/bachcl350dccinstr.htm for more info.

Edited August 9, 2013 by BromsMods

[Guest]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

While you do not need to take the body off to install the decoder, we did dismantle the carriage. The decoder area was too tight for us to include the speaker. It had also been suggested we would get a better sound if the the speaker was installed in the carriage rather than the decoder box.  When we reassembled it, there seemed to be no droop in the contacts but I will have a closer look. I can understand this might be an issue if the lights were not working in the carriage we dismantled. But my problem is that the lights will not work in any carriage

 

Yes the decoder was installed the right way.

 

I have now got a full set of CVs so the next step will be to correct the function mapping. 

 

Cheers

[Guest]

We are still persevering with fixing this problem and seem to be making progress.

 

Bachmann have provided a new pcb - many thanks to Bachmann for their prompt advice and assistance. This solved the lighting problem with all lights now working properly.

 

We have also changed the CVs for the function mapping, Cvs provided courtesy of legomanbiffo of DC kits. Most of the functions are working OK. Although a few are still mucked up.

 

I am not sure what our next step is, but I will post another update when there is some more progress.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

Back in August, I promised an update on this when I had some progress.

 

As I mentioned Bachmann provided a new pcb which seemed to solve the lighting problem. 

 

Getting the other functions working properly proved much more difficult. It seemed that as we changed one set of CVs, another problem arose.  But after a lot of toing and froing with and advice from DC kits we now have the functions working.

 

But one problem remains. When I turn on the lights, both the front and rear lights come on at each end. That is both the white and red lights are on. And they stay on irrespective of the direction of travel. As part of their support, DC kits had sent me a full list of their CVs and I could go through them one by one. 

 

But I was hoping someone might be able to narrow this down for me and tell me which ones I might change.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

I am finding quite a few difference in CVs between Dckits list and mine. But am reluctant to change them without knowing what is the effect.

 

Can anyone help with the lighting problem I mentioned in my previous post please?

 

Cheers

[McC]

One thing is that the coaches need to be in an exact order for the lighting to work (you've probably done this already)!

[Guest]

Yes, I have them in the right order.

The problem is still there - red and white lights at both ends come on when I turn on the lights. And stay on irrespective of the direction of the train.

I have the full list of cvs from dickits but do not know which ones are the relevant ones.

I would really appreciate some specific advice on how to fix this. Or a suggestion as to where I might go for advice.

[Ray H]

I currently have a Bachmann DMU with decoder in the power car and no decoder in the trailer. Both tail and white marker lights illuminate on the trailer (all the time) - I hope to fit the decoder this weekend - but only the desired lights work on the power car (when I operate the relevant function).

 

I presume from what has been said previously that you don't have decoders in the end vehicles so my suggestion is that these vehicles aren't being connected electrically to the decoder. Is it possible that you omitted or crossed some wiring when you changed the PCB?

[SRman]

Ray, the 350s are through-wired so, unlike the DMUs, only the one decoder is required but the coaches must be coupled in the correct order and orientation.

[Ray H]

My guess then is that one of the intermediate vehicles is the wrong way round (if that's possible to do) even if it is in the right order? Can the two end vehicles be accidentally swapped?

[McC]

Ensure couplings are inserted the right way up - brass connectors facing upwards.

[Guest]

Thanks for the comments.

 

The carriages are the in the right order. The connectors are the right way. The carriages get their power from the main carriage, so I would have thought there would be no lights if the connectors were upside down.

 

I had previously been told that I may be able to fix this by checking the relevant settings or cv. As there are many many cvs I was hoping someone could tell me where to look.

 

Cheers

[Ray H]

Thanks for the comments.

 

The carriages are the in the right order. . . .

 

The way I read things the suggestion above is that they may be in the right order but are they the right way round relative to the adjacent vehicles?

[Guest]

The way I read things the suggestion above is that they may be in the right order but are they the right way round relative to the adjacent vehicles?

 

I hadn't realised there was a right way.

 

Could someone please tell me which is the correct way.

 

Cheers

[Ray H]

Sorry, I can't help specifically but as you are saying that the coaches are in the correct order, you only have the two centre cars to try reversing. That's only four options and the current orientation appears to be the wrong one.

 

I'm 99% certain that the power car is marshalled with the pantograph in the centre of the unit so that only leaves the two options for the unpowered trailer car if I am right. It appears that as the unit isn't currently working correctly the unpowered trailer is probably the wrong way round - but if (and only if) if the power car is facing the right way.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help, I don't have the model, I just tried to apply some logic to the problem in the absence of any more positive responses.

[brushman47544]

Do you need four function outputs rather than three to make all the lights work properly when sound is added? I have no idea if this is an issue for the 350s, but to make all the lights work on some diesels, e.g. the Dapol Class 52, you need four functions and so I've used the new 36-557 decoder.

[SRman]

I'm 99% certain that the power car is marshalled with the pantograph in the centre of the unit so that only leaves the two options for the unpowered trailer car if I am right. It appears that as the unit isn't currently working correctly the unpowered trailer is probably the wrong way round - but if (and only if) if the power car is facing the right way.

 

 

 

Correct! The pantograph/power car goes with the pantograph end at the centre of the entire unit. The next coach has a toilet with no window at that end on one side; that windowless end goes at the far end from the pantograph car, or, if you prefer, with the windowless bit next to the last driving trailer.

 

That assumes that the bodies have been assembled the correct way round on the chassis. I haven't heard of any such problems with the 350 but the first issue 4 CEPs in green had just such a problem.

 

Ignore the livery and lack of pantograph, this shows the correct orientation and position for each coach. It started life as the Silverlink 350/1 version.

 

Edited January 17, 2014 by SRman

[Guest]

I have checked and the cars are in the right order.

 

The car with the pantograph © is aligned so that the pantograph is at the centre.

 

The designation of the cars (A, B, C or D) is printed on the bottom of each car. I have aligned the cars so that the direction of the printing is the same. That is the cars are the right way.

 

Cheers

[rincewind]

This thread doesn't have a final success answer, so I thought I'd post how I had exactly the same issue with the red and white lights at both ends coming on at the same time.

The problem turned out to be in one of the electrical couplers, each coupler is a socket that contains two metal contact plates inside. In mine, one of the coupler sockets had the metal contact plates converging and actually touched each other at the open end of the socket thereby causing all lights to be on no matter the direction. Simply putting a flat screwdriver in the socket and pushing each plate over so they sat in their respective halves of the socket fixed it, I think it even clicked into place.

 

Hope this helps, I created an account here just to post that answer since having the same fault in my brand new model drove me mad too.

 

Andrew

[Guest]

Thanks for the suggestion, Andrew. The 350 is currently stored away while I do some track changes but I will have a look when it is next given a run.

 

I have certainly learnt a few lessons with this exercise. Particularly about dealing with suppliers from the other side of the globe.

 

The other question I still have is this is the second time the sounds on a Loksound decoder have been scrambled. Happened at different time in different trains from different manufacturers. Only other common feature was I use JMRI/Sprog for control.

 

Cheers

[Mooresby]

This thread doesn't have a final success answer, so I thought I'd post how I had exactly the same issue with the red and white lights at both ends coming on at the same time.

The problem turned out to be in one of the electrical couplers, each coupler is a socket that contains two metal contact plates inside. In mine, one of the coupler sockets had the metal contact plates converging and actually touched each other at the open end of the socket thereby causing all lights to be on no matter the direction. Simply putting a flat screwdriver in the socket and pushing each plate over so they sat in their respective halves of the socket fixed it, I think it even clicked into place.

 

Hope this helps, I created an account here just to post that answer since having the same fault in my brand new model drove me mad too.

 

Andrew

 

4 years after this post was made, it came in useful this afternoon for me, solving the multi directional lighting problem.  I'm really pleased you created the account Andrew!!