Bachmann to produce ex LBSC Atlantic H2 Class 4-4-2

[Edwardian]

Possibly this might help.

 

There were few visual differences before the H2s were super-heated and rebuilt to the composite loading gauge standards in the mid to late 1930s.

 

One visible change that was made before this was the fitting of inset steps (April-June 1929) to cope with Eastern section loading gauge.  If you compare the 2 pictures below (re-posted from Clearwater and Andy Y) you will see the earlier condition version has not been fitted with the inset steps seen on the composite gauge one, so, this suggests pre-1929 to me.  I have attempted to annotate Andy's picture with the various changes made 1929-1938, none of which appear to be present on Clearwater's example.

 

The Southern example, posted by Andy Y, I take to be pre-Nationalisation, as Bullied removed the twin snifter valves post war.

 

Pre-1929, I would suggest it is largely a question of livery changes and when the brass name plates were added.  This table (derived from the information in the RCTS volume) should help:

 

Number       Date painted Maunsell Green        Date named 

 

421             September 1924                            February 1926, South Foreland

 

422             May 1924                                       June 1925, North Foreland

 

423             April 1927                                       April 1927, The Needles

 

424             September 1924                            June 1926, Beachy Head 

 

425            August 1926                                   August 1926, Trevose Head

 

426            June 1925                                      June 1925,  St Alban's Head

 

I might add that, were one prepared to tackle early Grouping, as opposed to the usual 1947 to (in this case) 1958 period or the late 1930s, there would be an interesting point around late 1925-early 1926 at which one could run the following together:

 

- Umber

 

- Maunsell Green unnamed

 

- Maunsell Green named

 

That is nothing, however to the end of the '30s to the mid '40s: Once Bullied got in on the act, and Herr Hitler intervened, livery variation got crazy, particularly for such a small class. 

[number6]

To add to the mix: I think this is what I like about researching stuff you thought you understood - it always kicks up something new.

 

Re Clearwater's image: The early SR livery possible is this one which is essentially an LBSCR loco in SR livery

Unnamed 'North Foreland' in early Southern Olive, 422 on the tender pre 1925

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-SR/i-qCb5hLj

 

As Andy has photographed: This is the later incarnation of the loco Bachmann have modelled. I assume the others in the case were the late BR version.  

North Foreland from 1937 - obviously just out of shops, 2422 on the tender:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tender-engines/i-jVvMqsZ/A

through to in Malachite with British Railways in full on the tender c1948:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tender-engines/i-BFRXnTP

 

A search on here for H2:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/search#q=H2&i=8

Two near identical images of Beachy Head and Trevose Head in Sunshine livery at Victoria show one with and one without snifter valves...

 

I reckon all versions are possible and many liveries can be reproduced on these three types of body.

[Clearwater]

From the Bachmann calendar which plopped into my doormat earlier:

 

Odd they say in the text olive green but do an umber picture..

Btw, it's the July pic

[Guest spet0114]

That's because the SR olive green and BR black are the only two to have been 'officially' announced. A version similar to that shown in the painting, (either LBSCR livery, or early SR) with all the early acoutriments (dome, cab, bogie brakes etc) has only been hypothesized, based on the appearance of a corresponding EP at Warley. There has been no official announcement.

 

Suffice it to say that there a quite a few folk who would snap up such a model, and will be keeping a close eye on developments. It might enter the main range in March. It might appear as a Collectors Club exclusive, though if it did then it'd represent (I think) the first time that the tooling of a club model has been significantly different from the contemporary main range models. My personal guess is that someone has commissioned the early version (and thus paid for Bachmann's additional development costs) and will announce it in due course. This would have to be one of the 'big boys' in the commissioning area - Kernow maybe, or Hattons - as I doubt the extra tooling was cheap.

 

Time will tell.....

 

Cheers
Adrian

[No Decorum]

From the Bachmann calendar which plopped into my doormat earlier:

 

Odd they say in the text olive green but do an umber picture..IMG_3992.JPG

Btw, it's the July pic

I think that it has been noted before that the Bachmann calendar isn’t related to the models produced. January 2016 is a B17!

 

EDIT: My copy of next year’s has arrived today. This time there are much closer links to what Bachmann produces or will produce. Commercially, a good idea and not one I object to. It helps build excitement.

Edited December 2, 2016 by No Decorum

[Horsetan]

I think that it has been noted before that the Bachmann calendar isn’t related to the models produced. ...

...or indeed the year that they come out.

[Wickham Green]

From the Bachmann calendar which plopped into my doormat earlier:

 

Odd they say in the text olive green but do an umber picture..IMG_3992.JPG

Btw, it's the July pic

Umber ? ...................... looks more like Stroudley's Disproved Engine Green to me !!?!

[GNR Dave]

It seems to match the umber on the Pullmans behind it. (as I believe was Marsh's intention) I think maybe the highlight from what appears to be afternoon sun, makes the colour look lighter.

[Edwardian]

I think that it has been noted before that the Bachmann calendar isn’t related to the models produced. January 2016 is a B17!

 

The calendar merely reflects the fact that Bachmann announced this model back in 1911, when it was that colour.

[Mad Carew Too]

I'll admit to being excited at the possibility of one in LBSC umber livery!

 

I could be converted.

 

Frankly, I'd succumb.

[Wickham Green]

One day .............. mayby one day ................. perhaps one day ...................... yer never know they might announce it in malachite green ??!?

 

 

PLEASE !

[ianmaccormac]

I would dearly love to see the early style of the H2. The coloured copy on the calendar is the second livery worn, either that or preferably as per the attached would be brilliant.

The bogie brakes were removed faily quickly so the livery as attached would be the better choice. Still in Umber. Now what about some very early Pullmans to go with it?

Cheers

Ian in Blackpool

[choo1choo]

Evening All,

 

Just to add my threepence worth I would LOVE an LBSCR liveried H2 pretty please with knobs on Mr Bachmann.

 

Craig.

[Guest spet0114]

Evening All,

 

Just to add my threepence worth I would LOVE an LBSCR liveried H2 pretty please with knobs on Mr Bachmann.

 

Craig.

It'll cost a bit more than 3p though.....

[ianmaccormac]

I emailed Bachmann to ask about the early variant as the photo is now in Model Rail Jan 2017. This is the reply:

 

 

Dear Mr MacCormac,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

The Bachmann Branchline OO Scale range includes two versions of the H2 Class Atlantic:

31-920   H2 Class Atlantic 4-4-2 2426 'St. Alban's Head' SR Olive Green

31-921   H2 Class Atlantic 4-4-2 32424 'Beachy Head' BR Black Early E/Emblem

As with many of our models, the tooling for this locomotive has several options, including those noted in your email, which allows us the possibility to release further variants of this locomotive in the future.

I trust this information is of interest to you,

Kind regards

Richard Proudman

Customer Support | Bachmann Europe PLC

 

So, I shall be keeping my eyes peeled for the announcement of the original style!

Cheers

Ian

Edited December 14, 2016 by ianmaccormac

[2750Papyrus]

Credit to Bachmann for a sensible and informative reply.

[JSpencer]

Buggy.... this probably means I will have to join the collectors club again to get an LBSCR one.

[Legend]

I suppose they have to be a bit careful. They don't want to put people off buying the initial releases by intimating that further versions maybe available in future, as folks may hold off buying. In the past people might have bought first version, and the version they really wanted when it finally appears , but I think at £185 a piece folks will be a bit more circumspect.

[JSpencer]

I suppose they have to be a bit careful. They don't want to put people off buying the initial releases by intimating that further versions maybe available in future, as folks may hold off buying. In the past people might have bought first version, and the version they really wanted when it finally appears , but I think at £185 a piece folks will be a bit more circumspect.

 

For the moment, I am only buying Beachy Head and regardless of what other ones they do, I will still buy Beachy Head. It is - for me - the Atlantic of my dreams.... However it would be nice to recover funds before buying an LBSCR one though.

[GreenGiraffe22]

No doubt if a Wartime black one appears i'll get it along with the Olive one I have on preorder.

 

I think it's time to stop pretending I am just buying models for the layout, I already have more than enough to run my little layout, I have become an out right 1940s South-Eastern Southern Railway collector. 

[Guest Midland Mole]

Buggy.... this probably means I will have to join the collectors club again to get an LBSCR one.

 

If Bachmann did the LBSC version as collectors' club only, I would lose the final tiny shred of respect I have left for them.

It was bad enough that they locked all the best stuff at Warley behind the collectors' club paywall....

 

- Alex

Edited December 14, 2016 by Midland Mole

[Andy Hayter]

But surely that is what the Bachmann collectors club is for - to issue versions of models that are not freely available.

 

Personally I think the demand for an LBSCR Atlantic would outstrip the collectors club issue, but what do I know?

 

But if it does come up as a BCC model, the solution is easy, join. You will end up paying top notch for the model, plus a premium for being a club member, BUT you ill have one of the models. Being totally mercenary I would suggest that is likely to prove to be a very good investment in the short to medium term at least.

 

So less of the I am angry at being excluded. You are not excluded. You have chosen to make yourself excluded.

 

Your choice. You alone have the solution.

[Guest spet0114]

Bearing in mind the amount of money that the extra tooling will have cost, I'd consider it rather unlikely that Bachmann will restrict an LBSCR atlantic to the Collectors Club where they'd have to recoup their costs from just 504 models.

[MikeParkin65]

Bearing in mind the amount of money that the extra tooling will have cost, I'd consider it rather unlikely that Bachmann will restrict an LBSCR atlantic to the Collectors Club where they'd have to recoup their costs from just 504 models.

I'm not so sure. Given the LBSC Liveried E4 is now a bargain sale regular they might be thinking a small run at a premium price is a surer bet than a larger run on general release. I find it hard to belief that the equally exquisite MR compound is still around at knockdown prices several years after it's released.

 

It must be an absolute nightmare being a manufacturer of such a niche product as RTR model railways to such a fickle market. It's more a (thankless) labour of love than a business model!

[Dunsignalling]

Bearing in mind the amount of money that the extra tooling will have cost, I'd consider it rather unlikely that Bachmann will restrict an LBSCR atlantic to the Collectors Club where they'd have to recoup their costs from just 504 models.

If the SECR C Class was anything to go by (which wasn't limited to 504), a standard limited edition won't be enough.

 

However, is Marsh Umber "pretty enough" for collectors? Although we don't know how many were made, the long hangover of the LSSCR-liveried E4s suggests that maybe it isn't. 

 

Limited or not, the additional tooling costs will also be shared between however many Bachmann turn out in early SR condition.

 

John

Edited December 15, 2016 by Dunsignalling