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Bachmann to produce ex LBSC Atlantic H2 Class 4-4-2





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#26 bbishop

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 17:53

Slightly dumb question, folks, but have Bachmann measured up the Bluebell loco?  It which case there could be slight differences from the LBSC class; for instance I think the Bluebell have made use of a GNR boiler.

 

Bill





#27 The Stationmaster

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 18:31

A fascinating development - not 'my' railway but good news for those who model the Southern (or part of it) and a good bet for a large GN Atlantic from the NRM next year.  Bachmann are very clearly trying to carve a particular reputation - if not exactly a place - in the market which will always leave an open question of 'what next'?  And that, I think can only be good for the 'middling serious' part of our hobby.


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#28 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 19:22

... there could be slight differences from the LBSC class; for instance I think the Bluebell have made use of a GNR boiler.

 They have indeed. But that's all on the inside out of sight; other than the view through the firehole (which won't be modelled!), the boiler cladding is what is seen. One presumes that the cladding and all other external hardware of the new build will as closely represent the H2 as current research can determine. Even if the Doncaster boiler has slightly different exterior dimensions to the Brighton, I should think the cladding will be able to conceal this: the H2 very, very closely follows the GNR original.



#29 micklner

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 19:32

Its using a GNR Boiler toooooooo



#30 ady77014

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 22:03

My money was on a D class.  

 

So was mine! I can't believe it though a Brighton Atlantic... ...I think I going to be spending more of my money now...


Edited by ady77014, 31 August 2013 - 22:03 .


#31 Roy P

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 22:16

... ...I think I going to be spending more of my money now...

 

How come Bachmann know how much I've got right down to the last penny?

RP


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#32 Dan Hamblin

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 22:58

Don't forget that one of the reasons for building a replica of a H2, as opposed to any other ex-LBSC class, was that the NRM has a virtually complete set of drawings. That should give Bachmann eveything they need to check against.

 

Excellent news regarding the model announcement, hopefully it will raise the profile of the Atlanic Group that little bit more.

 

Regards,

 

Dan



#33 JRAS

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 23:35

Brilliant news - I've just placed my order.  After many years Bachmann have found a rich Southern seam at the Bluebell to mine: the C Class, E4, Birdcage stock and now the Atlantic.   What will be next I wonder - an Adams Radial and an LSWR Road Van perhaps?  Well done Bachmann!


Edited by JRAS, 31 August 2013 - 23:43 .


#34 bodmin16

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 00:06

It is the H.....with a "2" at the end.


Does the 2 represent the extra 2 wheels?

I'll get me coat :-)

#35 The Great Bear

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:47

Another vote for the GNR one too please, in LNER livery. I'll overlook that it would have passed through my layout in the dead of night at the head of a parcels/mail train.


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#36 PatB

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:53

Neither my scale nor my area of interest but, nonetheless a fantastic development to see a sensibly priced (hopefully) r-t-r Atlantic of any kind.  I've long thought it a gaping hole in the range of available locos for either those (relatively few) modelling late Pre-Grouping main lines and those (much more numerous) wanting to represent Grouping and BR steam era second string passenger and express parcels services.

 

Congratulations to Bachmann.



#37 coachmann

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:06

It'll be interesting to see how Bachmann has overcome the usual Atlantic problems encontered by modellers, especially as many buyers will expect them to go round trainset curves.


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#38 Class O

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:23

I couldnt agree more, and join with other comments about the fact that Bachmann are light years ahead of the nearest rivals in terms of locomotive choice and selection. Yes the H2 will be a fine model, but again Bachmann have found an engine that is one of the ones that when the railway was running it could be found on more mundane workings, or the occasional duty that was given to the class. What with this announcement Id hold off carving this release as the C1 is bound to feature later.

 

Personally Im hoping that the 0-6-0 chassis, compound and the not to be forgotten (and on my part very much prayed for) 0-8-0 are equally a part of future developments...

Surely a Q6 must be on the way, and a J26/7 both preserved...and had long lives


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#39 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:27

It'll be interesting to see how Bachmann has overcome the usual Atlantic problems encountered by modellers, especially as many buyers will expect them to go round trainset curves.

They now have the full toolkit to handle this. The mistake 'we' were near forced into when kitbuilding was the order of the day to get something like an atlantic, was insufficient sideplay in the wheelsets. This partly because we used over thick material for the chassis, and a fairly bulky driveline; and also because the usual whitemetal body castings also limited sideplay of the wheelsets not least to prevent continual shorts. End result, 30 -36" minimum radius in OO, and tighter yet in EM and P4 for larger locos. The atlantic is no bigger than an all flanged 4-6-0, let alone something like the Peppercorn A1 which Bachmann manage all-flanged; I don't anticipate much trouble there.

 

What I do hope is that Bachmann go for the acceptable compromise on coupled wheel spacing: no compromise on the coupled wheelbase. Instead reduce the driving wheel tyre diameter to minimum permitted, so that the overscale flanges just clear (this has been their approach on several other models to alternative ends, like getting as much metal into the cast footplate). Anyone who has visited no 251 or Henry Oakley and looked behind the step will have seen the inch wide separation of the flanges.


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#40 BMacdermott

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:33

Great news for Bachmann and the Bluebell!

 

The Brighton Atlantic was in overall 17th position in the MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll 2013 (and 16th in 2012).

 

Brian



#41 Graham_Muz

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:07

As promised in my OP further details of the announcement in the shape of the full Bachmann press release is below:

 

The Atlantics were built to haul express trains between London and Brighton including the prestigious Pullman trains before completion of the electrification scheme on 1st January 1933.

 

1_1000.jpg

They were designed by D.E. Marsh, who had been deputy to the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Great Northern Railway, H.A. Ivatt, for 10 years until he was promoted to the top job at Brighton in January 1905. Such was the urgency for express motive power on the Brighton line that Marsh, with the full support of his former chief, borrowed a set of Doncaster drawings and made a few amendments. The result was five H1 Class locomotives which were built by Kitson’s of Leeds between December 1905 and February 1906.

The second batch (Class H2) although to Marsh design was modified by his deputy L. Billinton. Billinton was Acting Chief Mechanical Engineer due to Marsh being absent on extended sick leave. In 1912 Billinton took over permanently when Marsh resigned, holding the position until Grouping in 1923.

Six H2 Class locomotives were built at Brighton Works and remained on front line Brighton express work until the arrival of the King Arthur Class 4-6-0s in 1925. They were named after geographical features on the South Coast. The Atlantics then continued to operate other express trains and also boat trains to the ferries at Newhaven (for Dieppe, France) until the outbreak of World War 2 in 1939 brought the duties to a premature end.

The class continued to work secondary services after the war but there was less work for them and some were put into store. The first H2 Class withdrawal was No. 32423 ‘The Needles’ which took place in May 1949. The last to survive was No. 32424 ‘Beachy Head’ which was scrapped at Eastleigh following withdrawal on 24th April 1958.

 

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Sadly railway preservation was still in its infancy and ‘Beachy Head’ was scrapped before the formation of the Bluebell Railway in March 1959. This locomotive had worked part of the Locomotive Club of Great Britain Southern Counties Limited Rail tour on 24th February 1957 from Horsted Keynes to Brighton.

In 2000, the Bluebell Railway Atlantic Group was formed to build a replica of ‘Beachy Head’ for use on the extended Bluebell Railway between Sheffield Park and East Grinstead. Since then the group has acquired many parts including a GNR ‘Atlantic’ boiler, tender frames and wheel sets. Other items are being manufactured and the project has now reached an advanced stage.

The Bachmann Branchline OO scale model will be released in 2015. Two versions are planned initially which are;

31-920    H2 Class Atlantic 4-4-2 No. 2426 ‘St. Alban’s Head’ in Southern Railway olive green livery

31-921    H2 Class Atlantic 4-4-2 No. 32424 ‘Beachy Head’ in BR black livery with early emblem.

Models will incorporate a DCC socket. Prices will be advised in due course.

David Haarhaus, Bachmann’s European Sales & Marketing Manager said “We believe that the H2 Class locomotive will be popular with modellers and the emergence of the replica at Sheffield Park over the coming years will introduce the class to new generations of railway enthusiasts and modellers. We are working closely with the Bluebell Railway Atlantic Group and thank them for assisting us with this project”.
 

 


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#42 t-b-g

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:26

I am delighted to see that another pre-grouping loco is appearing. The differences between the LBSC and the GNR locos are pretty tiny (if the cab, tender and front curve on the footplate were altered along with the boiler fittings it would fool most people!) and if a GNR variety appeared I would certainly have one.

 

The clearance round curves is not quite as easy to sort out as all that. Having been involved in the construction of 4 GNR Atlantics and 2 Jersey Lilies in EM gauge, there are some potential problems, mainly involving the bogie. Just look how close the rear bogie wheel is to the back of the cylinders and to the driving wheels.

 

I can live with slightly undersized wheels (real wheels got turned down by a bit over their lives) but I feel sure that it will take a bit more than that to sort the bogie out.

 

On the O4 the relationship between the pony truck and the cylinder was tweaked to get some side movement on the pony and it is all but undetectable without measuring, so Bachmann do have some experience of such tricks. I wonder if they might put the bogie pivot between the rear bogie wheels, to minimise the movement on that pair.

 

Tony


Edited by t-b-g, 01 September 2013 - 09:28 .

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#43 coachmann

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:10

I agree with the above. Bachmann will no doubt have tested various mock up chassis and sorted the problems before announcing they will produce the Atlantic. Kit manufacturers were essentially 'weak' in this department and It was up to builders to 'sort' it if they ever got as far as actually being built.

 

I was at the receiving end of ready-built locos and it didn't matter to me whether they were fit for purpose or not. But I did test them on a length of curved track to make sure they still ran after I had painted them................ It was apparent some were for display only! Just about every class of Atlantic passed through here, in fact I can't think of any that didn't. At the extremes I would place the LYR version at the ugly end and the GNR large boiler version at the neatest end. This is because the GN Atlantic was a thoroughbred whereas the others were either vague copies or looked better in their 4-6-0 version. Personal viewpoint o' course.



#44 The Stationmaster

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:20

It'll be interesting to see how Bachmann has overcome the usual Atlantic problems encontered by modellers, especially as many buyers will expect them to go round trainset curves.

What is  going to be really interesting is when they progress to a single - and surely that must eventually come in the light of the policy they seem to be working to of picking on the eclectic?


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#45 Oldddudders

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:27

What is  going to be really interesting is when they progress to a single - and surely that must eventually come in the light of the policy they seem to be working to of picking on the eclectic?

Great idea, Mike!

 

http://en.wikipedia..../LB&SCR_G_class


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#46 coachmann

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:34

What is  going to be really interesting is when they progress to a single - and surely that must eventually come in the light of the policy they seem to be working to of picking on the eclectic?

Midland Railway Johnson Single....plain and straightforward with no clearance problems and driven by a thoroughly modern Tender-drive that could be used on many future small boiler pre-group locos and even a Johnson 2F 0-6-0.


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#47 Legend

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 11:51

It'll be interesting to see how Bachmann has overcome the usual Atlantic problems encontered by modellers, especially as many buyers will expect them to go round trainset curves.


Sorry, being dense here, but why would a 4-4-2 present any more difficulties than a 4-6-2 on train set curves? Surely a 4 coupled wheelbase is easier than 6 coupled?
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#48 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 13:33

Sorry, being dense here, but why would a 4-4-2 present any more difficulties than a 4-6-2 on train set curves? Surely a 4 coupled wheelbase is easier than 6 coupled?

Notionally yes, but, these things did have rather tightly packed wheelbases, with results like small clearances around cylinders and axles sufficiently closely spaced that OO flanges would overlap if the wheel tyre is at the nominal maximum size. However, the RTR manufacturers now have a good armoury of tricks to get them out of these holes.  Still easier than a sprawling pacific with the cylinders in the wrong position...

 

Singles, I believe the way forward is a small can motor in the tender driving a couple of tender wheels, with a shaft drive probably to an underhung gearbox on the loco drivers.



#49 Adams442T

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 15:06

What is  going to be really interesting is when they progress to a single - and surely that must eventually come in the light of the policy they seem to be working to of picking on the eclectic?

 

Bachmann of course have in their US selling 'Thomas' range an 'Emily', which I think one could only call a 'simulacrum' of the Stirling Single.  Does anyone know how they got around the problems with this one?  Anyway I'm sure they must be aware of the NRM possibilities and feel sure it will emerge soon and, IMHO, could be an even bigger seller than the SECR Wainwright. 



#50 Captain Kernow

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 15:25

Good news but bl**dy typical! My friend has paid good money to have this beauty professionally built for him from the DJH kit...!

 

DSCF2730.jpg

 


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