Dapol announce 8 new 'O' gauge wagons at Guildex

[Andy Y]

Guildex O Gauge Announcements

 

DSCN2895 - GWR Gunpowder Van 58725 by SVREnthusiast, on Flickr

 

 

Dapol would like to confirm its commitment to RTR O Gauge by announcing a further 8 O gauge wagon models that we aim to release in the following 12-18 months

 

1. Salt Van
2. Gunpowder Van
3. Southern Railways Pattern Box Van
4. Ventilated Van
5. Meat Van
6. Conflat & Container
7. Lime Wagon
8. 9 Plank Wagon

 

These wagons will be based on the RCH standard 10’ chassis

 

Prices for these will be between £40 and £49 and all will have the following specification:

 

1. Highly detailed bodies
2. Opening doors where feasible
3. 3 link coupling chain  (blackened) and sprung coupling hook
4. Metal sprung buffers
5. Finely detailed metal wheels and axles with brass bearing pockets
6. Finely detailed chassis with an inbuilt compensation for minimal derailment.
7. Internal detail provided where possible

 

 

CAD/CAM design work will start in September 2013 and we hope to be displaying the first Engineering prototypes early in the New Year.

 

 

[The Bigbee Line]

More things to tempt people into a change of scale.  It's dependent on the terrier turning up (and being a decent runner).

[Jack]

These wagons will be based on the RCH standard 10’ chassis

 

 

It's dependent on the terrier turning up (and being a decent runner).

 

And more importantly, 'based on' being vaguely accurate, unlike there 5, 7 & 8 planks ...

 

RTR O gauge is only a good thing if it is accurate - it can be basic - but it must be accurate.

 

IMHO - **** the opening doors and interiors, just get the underframe and body shape right.

[cromptonnut]

Good news for steam era modellers but, again, modern image modellers are overlooked.

[hmrspaul]

mmm  They may struggle to get several of these on to "the RCH standard 10’ chassis" by which may we assume they mean 10ft wb and 17ft 6in over headstocks?

[switcher 1]

Good news for steam era modellers but, again, modern image modellers are overlooked.

Especially as it is now 2013, almost 50 years since diesels started to become main stream movers.

[cromptonnut]

I suppose part of the problem goes back to O gauge being "big" ... with the steam era you can get away with 10ft wheelbase wagons and 0-6-0 locos in small spaces but if you want to run a Castle with 8 trailing (or a 47 with 8 trailing) realistically you are more than likely going to end up modelling in the garden which naturally few of us are able to achieve.

 

Obviously the 08, Terrier, J94 and Manning Wardle are extensions of this thinking and although there is no doubt that larger rtr diesel locos such as the Heljan range have sold fairly well, and that there is a need for these sort of things to be available, there just doesn't seem to be the necessary stock to go with it - passenger or freight.

 

Ranges clearly have to be matched - stock and locos - but it all seems to go back to the old argument "well there are plenty of kits available" - which not everyone is capable or wants to challenge. 

 

The days of 7mm modelling being limited to those who can scratchbuild or kitbuild are coming to an end, making it far more accessible to the 'average modeller'.  Which is rather ironic really when you think that before the war, there was a massive range of rtr available - albeit fairly crude by today's standards - and that rtr O gauge was considered 'the norm' in the same way that N and OO is today.  Of course, many enjoyed - and still do - the challenge of scratchbuilding and kitbashing in all scales but an increase in rtr can only be of benefit overall.

[adrianbs]

Hi O gaugers, Lets hope that post 1 in this thread contains a large number of typographical errors and that these models are not just

going to be scaled up versions of their 4mm range with all the errors repeated. PaulB has alrady hinted that there will be problems

getting them all on 10'wb chassis and even more problems getting some on 17'6" underframes. One can only assume that AndyY has got

the wrong end of the stick otherwise these will be even more inaccurate than the 5; 7; and 8 plank POWs with over 40 noticeable

dimensional or detail errors on two models and nearly as many on the third.

 

There is a surprising similarity between some models in this list and models in the old liquidated Skytrex range, could just be a

complete coincidence of course but "alls fair in love and war"!!?? Modern image modellers are of course already being catered for by

Dapols previous announcements which one assumes must be nearly ready for release, bearing in mind the timescales proposed for the

items above. This states "engineering prototypes in the new year" which implies 2014?? and the modern image wagons were announced

nearly a year ago. so, say 5 months fot these announcement to prototypes, the M I wagons are probably on a ship to the UK ?????

It is strange though that there has been no sign of progress on any of these announced models and no releas dates, if they are nearly

ready, so that advanced orders can be placed by all those clamouring for M.I wagons. Perhaps AndyY will be able to let us know the

position in his next post??

 

Here's hoping for some more really accurate RTR 7mm/ft Wagons like the Lionheart series. adrianbs

[Mod4]

Adrian

 

Please let me clarify that the original post in this thread whilst posted by Andy Y is simply a posting of the Dapol press announcement (as if often the case with news items posted on this site).

Therefore there is no case of Andy Y having the "wrong end of the stick" or Andy Y being aware of the "position" for a  next post.

 

Any questions regarding the announcement and Dapol's development timescales will need to be raised with Dapol direct.  

[Coombe Barton]

Can we have a 'sympathy for the mods' icon, please

[adrianbs]

Hi to Mod4, OK, so IF AndyY's first post is a straight repaste of Dapol's announcements I apologise profusely even though he did not

comment on, or query, the obvious anomalies especially when using the GWR Iron Mink style gunpowder van photo which was not a RCH

design, nor 10'wb and only 16' long. It was a toss up between AndyY getting it wrong or Dapol and I have to admit the balance of probabilities does go in his favour. As there is, as yet, nothing I can find on the Dapol site about these or the Modern image wagons

or even the Terrier I suppose the info was word of mouth or some, as yet, unavailable printed handout.

Somebody at Dapol is going to be awfully busy in the next year if all these and earlier announcemnts are to get to market, even in the next 3 to 4 years. The current list makes Hornby look a bit like a snail. I remember all the proposed models from David Boyle the

founder of Dapol !! Regards All adrianbs

[Andy Y]

Hi to Mod4, OK, so IF AndyY's first post is a straight repaste of Dapol's announcements I apologise profusely even though he did not

comment on, or query, the obvious anomalies especially when using the GWR Iron Mink style gunpowder van photo which was not a RCH

design, nor 10'wb and only 16' long. 

 

Adrian, Mod4 is wholly correct - the press announcement is repeated verbatim. I do not necessarily have detailed wagon knowledge to query the content which wasn't particularly detailed anyway nor the time between receiving the information and the necessity to publish it.

 

I would have thought it was sufficiently obvious where the information had originated from without inferring I'd got the wrong end of the stick; why do you have to keep having digs at people? Can't you just ask if information is correct?

[adrianbs]

Hi all    I am sure we are now all hoping for a clarification ot the above Dapol announcement.   Naturally AndyY will be most anxious to contact Dapol to resolve the apparent anomalies and Dapol will be equally anxious to reassure prospective purchasers that their press release, as published above, had a number of misleading statements.   It would be extremely disappointing  indeed if the above listed wagons wil;all be on 10' RCH chassis thereby scaling up some of their least accurate 4mm models   Perhaps a much more detailed list of these proposed wagons can be provided as soon as possible to allay the fears of those querying the accuracy of these projects...

 

As the market now stands with Skytrex seemingly out of the RTR rolling stock race,  Bachmann brass RTR having ceased production and Richard Webster of Lionheart now

part of the Dapol team  there is now only Heljan to prevent a monopoly in this field.     Whilst many O gauge modellers, as we know, are prepared to buy anything they are offered whether or not accurate as long as it is RTR and will actually run on O gauge track it would be very sad if future brand new products were not made to a standard at least the equal of the "best practice" 4mm  models.  Since much of the 7mm  kit market for the last 30 plus years has been producing models of a higher standard than anything on the RTR 4mm scene until the last few years and is still the equal of anything available  it seems very retrograde to go back to the standards of 4mm models in the 1960s.  Alas at the moment that is the direction in which Dapol  have been heading and a rapid change of direction is urgently needed for the benefit of 7mm modellers  if not the kit manufacturers   Unfortunately  the kit manufacturers will suffer whatever happens as any RTR models will inevitably have to largely duplicate existing kits because almost all the commercially viable RTR wagons have already been produced as kits, in many cases almost ad infinitum.  The kit market has already been reduced either to duplication or to producing earlier and earlier designs or highly exotic prototypes with limited sales and very high tooling costs.  These models will never be attractive to the RTR manufacturers as they offer no profit..  The cottage industry products are often labours of love by dedicated modellers who, rather than scratchbuild, prefer to go for limited production runs which will just cover their costs but are unlikely to result even in a minimum wage income.. In similar words to Dave Jones  I am very glad I am out of it but, unlike him, I am retired.       Regards  all  adrianbs

[Mick Boyd]

Adrian,

 

I seem to recall breathing a sigh of relief a few weeks ago on reading (but I can't remember where) that Richard Webster's Lionheart range would continue (and grow?) as a separate entity to his involvement in Dapol, I certainly hope so.

 

Regards, Mick.

[two tone green]

Possibly have chance to ask questions at Reading soon.

[hmrspaul]

Unfortunately  the kit manufacturers will suffer whatever happens as any RTR models will inevitably have to largely duplicate existing kits because almost all the commercially viable RTR wagons have already been produced as kits, in many cases almost ad infinitum.  The kit market has already been reduced either to duplication or to producing earlier and earlier designs or highly exotic prototypes with limited sales and very high tooling costs.    Regards  all  adrianbs

Oh Adrian, even including your whitemetal range, there are a lot of useful gaps left in the 7mm kit market - especially if the etched wagon kits are ignored which are sometimes quite poor, and not something many of us can make. 

 

A grain hopper would be nice - I know they were never numerous, but they do seem to have been worked hard by how often they turn up in train photos. Parkside even have the work done for an LNER wooden version, would make a lovely 7mm model. But there are many others - tubes for example.

 

Paul

[cromptonnut]

There must be a fair few widespread "modern image" wagons missing too.

 

I know JLTRT do a kit for a TTA, for example, but at £90 for a kit someone must be able to knock up an rtr version for the same or less...

[adrianbs]

Hi Paul You are absolutely right there are many gaps, I have over 50 7mm models largeley complete for 7mm scale but not yet available. I attend the big 4 O gauge shows every year and I have display models of most of my range which I rotate, as the stand could never hold them all ( about 150 currently in production ) In spite of this a number of my most recent products have been largely "Vanity publishing" as they have either not even covered production costs or more likely have not yet covered the research, design and tooling costs. There are so many products competing now for limited money that even the easy to build 1 piece resin body wagons have a likely sale of less than 100 units over a 5 year period. This compares with figures more like 50 per year for each of the first 10 years when

I started in the 1970s. Bearing in mind that my research, design and tooling is done by me in most cases I do need to get a return on my

time as well as the production costs. Since I do days and days of research etc for a new model and would expect about £100 per day for this you can soon see that I need to sell about 100 immediately to show a small profit and well over 50 just to cover my time and poduction costs. I am well aware, that there are some that believe my figures to show my marketing is all wrong but I am still in business even though retired when many have fallen by the wayside. Many smaller ranges are only hobby businesses and some think they

have done well if they cover their stand costs at a large show like Telford. Others may break even and perhaps cover hotel and travelling costs thereby making it a "Free" weekend and perhaps cover the cost of a few small purchases for themselves. Although first

in the field with many of my products, over the years most of the good sellers have been duplicated, triplicated or more virtually wiping

out my sales. This will now happen to the "big boys" who make plastic kits if RTR takes off just as it has to me. The kit market will

stagnate just as it did in 4mm once the TOY firms starting making accurate models. I was only in 4mm as were others and we were forced to turn our attention to 7mm to continue to survive. Luckily for me I got in at the start and have got out at the top.

Regards all adrianbs

[adrianbs]

Hi All   Did anyone get  any snippets of information at the Reading show. I was on my stand all day so had no chance

     to have a wander.   I note there is still no information about these 8 wagons on the Dapol site, nor indeed the three

     modern image wagons previously announced.  There has been no release date on their site for the milk tankers or the

     brakevan that I can see, just the reliveried/weathered  5, 7 & 8 plank POWs.  When I queried the fact that one of the

     new 5 plankers had 7 planks and the description stated "RCH 5 plank wagons were rated at 10 Tons" ( 1923 wagons were of

     course 12 Tons ) and asked what GWR wagon they thought it was supposed to be, if indeed it was a 5 planker, this seems

     to have thrown them somewhat. Their initial answers were somewhat confusing and I have had no reply to my follow up.

     It's always interesting to find out what their wagons are supposed to be, one would not like to criticise without this

     knowledge of course !!     Regards    all    adrianbs

[cromptonnut]

I didn't see or hear anything of Dapol at Reading.  I was going to pop over and say hello but your stand was quite busy every time I wandered by.  Perhaps next year.

 

I had in mind some of the milk tanks but as no information was forthcoming have changed my plans and unless they are spectacularly good and very well priced I will probably not bother now.

 

In the digital age, failing to pass  information to potential customers is inexcusable.

[Dreadnought05]

Dapol have gone quiet on everything O gauge it seems

[gardenwall]

Dapol have gone quiet on everything O gauge it seems

R W has put out some views of cad cams for the new Lionheart wagons (GWR LMS LNER)  (supposed to be working on partnership with Dapol), announcements on the coke raves suggest these will take a while before they are available and presumably the wagons will be after that. But that's ok, that's being frank - at least we know where we stand.

 

Dapol rather nailed their colours to the mast  with these new (8) wagons as being produced by the new team (design starting end Sept and displaying engineering prototypes early in the new year)  So we would hope to see something at Kettering, whether that is 3D prints on show or just pictures of the same doesn't matter too much (they are produced as part of the working design process not just for display) Just as long as there's something - even if it's not all of them.

 

Note that they have not yet given a firm production date, and would be well advised not to at this stage, it may well be a way off given the problems that all the companies seem to be facing, by their own admission quite possibly into 2015. Also these models may be given a higher priority than some of the previously announced models - the new team will naturally want to make their mark. However Kettering is not that far away and if they don't manage to show at least some progress by then, then the RTR future begins to look Heljan (with maybe a smattering of DJM) 

 

One hopes that they can.

[The Stationmaster]

Dapol have gone quiet on everything O gauge it seems

 

Judging by what he said at Warley I believe that Mr Webster 'has plans for the future' of the Dapol 0 gauge range (and judging by what I saw on a stand at Reading he could make a good start on those peculiar brake handles!).

 

I think I'm in far too deep in the 00 world to start even thinking about 0 gauge although that nice Mr Klein showed me his little diesel at Warley and it made a big impression - it\'s basically that I can't really think in 7mm terms so I left the Reading trade show (excellent as ever) with no big boxes likely to disturb domestic bliss.

[gardenwall]

Judging by what he said at Warley I believe that Mr Webster 'has plans for the future' of the Dapol 0 gauge range (and judging by what I saw on a stand at Reading he could make a good start on those peculiar brake handles!).

 

I think I'm in far too deep in the 00 world to start even thinking about 0 gauge although that nice Mr Klein showed me his little diesel at Warley and it made a big impression - it\'s basically that I can't really think in 7mm terms so I left the Reading trade show (excellent as ever) with no big boxes likely to disturb domestic bliss.

The 'peculiar brake handles' were revised to more standard ones on the P O wagons for Tower Models delivered at the beginning of October and production samples before that, - that's a DJ tweak.   I do not doubt RW's commitment to O gauge in the slightest ( the Peco kits still speak volumes in his favour, as well as the Lionheart range), it is Dapol's commitment in the face of real world problems that is on test.  I hope they can stick with it.

[adrianbs]

Hi All,  Very busy Kettering show as usual and I had no time to look around for the Dapol stand.  Did they have anything new on show ??

 RW  only had samples of his 8 plank POWs as far as I could see. 

 I supplied RW with a few notes about errors on the SR brakevan, a photo of which is visible on the  Tower site, but there were others I

 discovered on closer inspection after the show, when I had more time to spare.  I was hoping it might be worth buying to replace my SR

 Brakevan showcase model which was stolen at Telford.  At the moment it still looks like I will have to build myself another unless Dapol

 have done a lot of extra work on it.

 I would have expected Dapol to have EPs or samples of the 3 modern image wagons and perhaps a list of these 8 new wagons on their

 stand although there is nothing at all on their internet site and the SR B/van is not even mentioned.   We still don't know which version

 of the SR B/van will be made apart from the colour schemes listed by Tower nor indeed which prototypes the milk tanker is supposed

 to be based upon.  The photo of the latter on the Tower site is still a composite of GWR and LMS designs with some components not

 suitable for any milk tank at all.

 With Tower's announcement of new  "Specials"  based on RW's  wagons I have s feeling the days of the Dapol POWs may be numbered

 apart from the short run freelance specials which may still be produced for individul shops and societies.

                Regards to all  adrianbs