Layout design case study

[Barnaby]

I like this idea very much. Colin, is it going to be a bit like Captain Cook's diaries, a tale of obsession and discovery, respect and brutality, courage and madness, from the pomp and splendour of England to death on a beach on the far side of the world.   Well hopefully no deaths on a beach nor drowning in the cellar.

 

Looking forward to the written words describing your railway journey.

 

Regards

Edited September 17, 2013 by Barnaby

[colin penfold]

Thanks for the kind words Barnaby

 

You could definitely say obsession, given that I have been thinking about a DNSR layout and collecting books and models to that end, for 30 years plus!!!

 

One thing that struck me when I wrote the previous sentence, is that when I initially investigated what was available RTR there was very little on sale, and of a quality I would have been willing to use. One of my purchases was a westward models T9 kit. If only I'd known Hornby would produce such a wonderful RTR model before I got to build the kit!!!  Still ,one day I shall have a go! In the meantime a Hornby one is in the stock box waiting to stretch its legs. I deliberately bought the Hornby one with the 6 wheel tender, because my favourite is the watercart - to force me to build the kit.

Edited September 17, 2013 by colin penfold

[The Nth Degree]

I'm looking forward to the next episode to the show!

[L&Y]

Yep, Another follower.Be interested to see how this develops. Not sure I agree about the plywood beam baseboards though. I used them for my last layout & they made a much stronger frame. (Rice design with softwood block spacers.) The screws hold much better than screwing into end grain. Didn't notice the end result was any lighter though.They also don't warp once made.

[clecklewyke]

Wow, coming from a star of the book in question....

 

I have no way of asking him but I hope Iain would approve?

Definitely not a star, just a disciple mentioned in dispatches.

 

You could try emailing

 

president@scalefour.org

 

Iain is very helpful and supportive and I am sure would be interested to see how people are responding to his writing.

 

Ian

[colin penfold]

Chapter 5 of Iain's book is entitled Prototype Matters: Inspiration and Sources

 

This is a bit I really enjoy.

 

So, what is my inspiration? I was started off in the usual way, by getting a train set as a kid, and working my way up from the Great Cockrow railway (5 1/2 and 7 1/4) to the RHDR during childhood holidays to Hythe, Kent to my first sight of a full size steam loco aged 15 ( 7808 Cookham Manor at Didcot) I started off as a GWR fan and then graduated to the SR. My prototype railway experiences were mainly Southern Electric in and out of Waterloo. I lost interest in modelling for a while due to lack of space and focussed on photographing railways through the 80s. I have a fondness for the Blue Diesel era having been out with my camera at the time. My view of the steam railway is slightly rose tinted, based on preserved lines, books and videos. Having said that, I am motivated to try to create a model of something I never saw in real life.

 

 As I explained earlier, the combination of short passenger trains and through freights and the ability to run SR and GWR locos and stock, and a residential connection with the area served makes the DNSR an attractive choice for me.

 

I have been lucky enough to assemble quite a large library of written material as follows:

 

An Historical Survey of the DNSR

 

BR Past and Present - Berksire & Hampshire

 

Branch Line Album

 

Branch Lines of Berkshire

 

British Railways Steaming from A-Z

 

Burghclere Signalman

 

Country Railway Routes Didcot - Winchester

 

Didcot Newbury and Southampton (Oakwood)

 

Didcot Newbury and Southampton (Wild Swan) and supplement

 

GW Branch Line Modelling Part 2

 

Hampshire Steam

 

Last Days of steam in Berkshire

 

Last Days of steam in Hampshire

 

On Didcot Newbury and Southampton Lines

 

Signalling Days

 

Southampton's Railways

 

Steam Colour Portfolio Southern Vol2

 

Sutton Scotney - Life at a Country Station

 

If anyone has trouble finding any of the above, let me know and I will give authors/publishers details

 

Having waded pleasurably through the literature, visited the remains of all the stations and thought carefully about what I want from a model I settled on Burghclere because of its compact layout and Lime Works siding. I decided too that the Shawford (or Hockley) Viaduct is too impressive to leave out. The other element to give some play value needed to be a more elaborate track layout. Reading (eye activity not Berkshire) the history of the line I got interested in the unfulfilled plans to get an independent route all the way to a terminus "On land adjoining Bargate Street" in Southampton. I have thought a lot about this and always felt something like a minories would be the answer. Further research into the railways, buses and trams of Southampton followed, and I got hold of a good track plan of Southampton Terminus British Railways Illustrated Vol 2 No.6: Aug/Sept 1993. I was attracted by the layout and found that a considerable amount of cropping was possible without losing the basic operating pattern. I photocopied the track diagram and used a highlighter pen to select the tracks I thought were essential. I then used Anyrail to create a layout based on those essential bits. OOPs, nearly leapt ahead to track diagrams there!!!

 

I have used internet sources, not least RM Web, to fill in gaps in my knowledge, as well as buying old maps from Alan Godfrey Maps. I also took Iain's advice and went on a couple of field trips to supplement my earlier visits to the line. I paid longer, more detailed visits to the three locations I intend to model. I took detailed photos and panoramic shots to use as backscenes. I had an interesting afternoon visualising how the terminus at Southampton might have developed. I can't recommend this sort of research highly enough. It's enjoyable in its own right, and hopefully will result in a better model.

 

 

Some shots of Burghclere:

 

 

 

 

 

Shawford Viaduct

 

 

 

This shot illustrates my theory that the human eye has trouble viewing a massive structure like this all in one go, and it's perfectly sensible to model some of the arches enclosed by natural view blockers, rather than try to model the whole thing (which would be 26' long in 4mm scale!!!!!!)

 

 

 

The potential backscene for Shawford

 

 

Southampton

 

I identified two potential sites, one above and one below the city walls, which will make an excellent enhancement to the layout. The famous Bargate tower will find its way in too

 

 

 

 

 

Hope you have enjoyed this chapter. Next time we start to delve into the rationale and specification that will drive the final plan (there really will be track diadgrams eventually, I promise!!!!!!!)

Edited September 19, 2013 by colin penfold

[petethemole]

As a Sotonian by adoption and recently retired from the "heritage industry" (!) I'll be interested to follow this, particularly the Southampton end. The City archives hold the following;

 

SC 20/3/1/48, "Proposed West Quay Road, showing a proposed station at w. side of Bargate Street and mudland. Didcot, Newbury, and Southampton Junction Railway Works"    c. 1882.

 

I haven't seen this myself but I'm curious now and may go in to have a look at it; the title implies that the station would have been on the lower area, on the mudland, requiring reclamation. You may not have realised on your visit that Bargate Street formerly sloped down to the lower level (sorry if you were aware). The first picture, with the marker traders' vans, is probably in the general area of the proposed site; the road in the shot with buses was only laid out in about 1960.

 

Pete

[colin penfold]

Thanks Pete, I was aware that the road on the lower level shot is called the esplande and the water came right up to it prior to reclamation. My theory with the higher site is that as there were only a few buildings in that area they might easily have been cleared by the DNSR earlier rather than by the city council in the 60s

The decision on where I pretend the station ended up will depend on how I decide to orientate it to make sense of including some of the city walls and towers.

I'd be really keen to hear from you if you do inspect that document, if it's useful I'd gladly reimburse you if you grab me a copy. Also, I would like to get some drawings of the walls and towers, if you know any likely sources?

[The Nth Degree]

I love this bit. Researching and reading and putting that down on paper is probably the most exciting part in the early stages, which probably explains why there are so many abandoned layout threads here – mine included!

 

I've found that just when I've discovered the perfect prototype and I'm putting the finishing touches to it, another will suddenly appear and offer something better or more appealing.

 

Well done on the thread, very enjoyable.

[petethemole]

A view across newly reclaimed land towards the west end of Bargate Street, roughly the area in the foreground of your shot, date probably early 1900s (after 1899 when the pub was rebuilt).

 

http://pubshistory.com/Hampshire/Southampton/ArundelTower.shtml

 

A useful site for old illustrations; type street name or subject in the search box: http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/default.asp  Bargate Street and Arundel Tower should get most of the area.

 

The Archaeology Unit (my former workplace) carried out a detailed survey of much of the Walls in the 1980s, some bits have also been done by photogrammetry but I'm not sure which. The survey drawings are to a large scale and very detailed ("stone-by-stone") so are a bit unwieldy. I'll be dropping in there soon to pick my old bike up and I'll talk to the manager about what might be of use. It would help if you could say which bits are of interest; I'm assuming the section south from Arundel Tower (how far?) and between there and Bargate. The Inner Ring Road was cut through c1960 but the section of wall west of the Bargate was cut through in the late 1930s. Prior to that the wall was intact but largely obscured by buildings built up against it.

 

There would have been lines continuing south towards the Docks. Also, did you know that earthworks were started within Southampton? An embankment that would have taken the line to a viaduct across Commercial Road and the LSWR is still in situ north of Commercial Road and east of Hill Lane, behind various modern developments. It is accessible to the public via The Rollesbrook Greenway: http://www.southampton.gov.uk/s-leisure/parksgreenspaces/Greenways/rollesbrookvalleygreenway.aspx

 

Edited for typos

Pete

Edited September 19, 2013 by petethemole

[The Stationmaster]

For your information Colin a new book on the DN&S will be appearing from Kevin Robertson in, he hopes, January (should be available for the Southampton show he has said).

'The Dicot, Newbury & SouthamptonRailway - an historic review - 1882 - 1966'  approx 200 pages, ISBN 978-1-906419-83-7, £30.  Kevin told me at Swindon that it is all new material which has come to light since earlier books were published.

[colin penfold]

Superb Mike and Pete, thank you so much. Mike that's a birthday present to go on the list

 

Pete I have PMd you regarding the walls. Your help is much appreciated, exactly what RM Web is all about

Edited September 20, 2013 by colin penfold

[colin penfold]

Over the weekend I will do the promised next chapter, but in the meantime it struck me that I listed the books I had collected, but didn't really give any indication of the outputs from all that research.

 

I got track diagrams, signalling diagrams, elevations of all the buildings I need, lots of background including the details of where the DNS station in Southampton would have been and some super information on how the line was operated. In short, everything physical that makes up the railway. I have also made a copious list of all the locos which were seen on the DNS during the period I intend to span. It's a super list, not your usual branch line fare:

 

Diesel

Class 33 Crompton

Bubble Car DMU

GWR Streamlined Railcar

2H Thumper +

 

GWR Classes

22xx

28xx

61xx

City

Duke

Grange

43xx Mogul

57xx Pannier

 

BR Standards

9F

Std 4 2-6-0

Std 4 4-6-0

Std 4MT Tank

WD 2-8-0

 

SR Classes

B4 +

Bullied Pacific

E1 *

E2 *

Q

Q1

T9

U

USA *

 

Bold print indicates common, daily use on all sections

+ indicates to Winchester only

*Indicates Southampton area

 

 

The through freights include coal, cattle, oil, opens, fitted vans, sugar beet, and bananas

The passenger services were mostly 3 coaches of GWR origin, SR Maunsell or Bullied stock, or BR Mark 1s

 

 

SO apart from the enjoyment of the reading I have excuses for all the locos I own except the M7 (Southampton pilot) and C Class. My cover story for that is that the competitive relationship between Southern and Western Regions spilled over when the SR saw WR putting out City of Truro on passenger services and got hold of 592 to run some of their turns, so as not to be outdone. And yes, they will be getting hold of a birdcage set to go with it! Anyone objects to that idea, I shall fall back on rule 1. I await model rail's USA tank with impatience. The only gap is the duke, and the fact that I'm using an N instead of a U. Not going to bother with the E1 or B4 but other than that the collection is complete. It would be good if Bachmann updated the GW mogul. To compensate for it being a bit below current standards I intend to weather it within an inch of its life to cover up the missing detail with cr"p    dirt.

[The Great Bear]

Could you sneak in a Dukedog? Depending on when you're modelling some were shedded at Didcot at least until nationalisation.

[colin penfold]

Could you sneak in a Dukedog? Depending on when you're modelling some were shedded at Didcot at least until nationalisation.

I am sticking to 1943-closure and with the exception of the c class I am only going to run stuff I have photographic or documentary evidence of. I have seen pics of Dukedogs, but pre-1943

 

Thanks for your interest

 

Colin

[Barnaby]

Wow Colin you put my puny beermat scratches I call my layout plan to shame.

It's great to watch it all happening in real time.

 

Making me rethink mine already to instead of FICTICIOUS to being based on something real even if foreshortened somewhat.

 

Regards

[colin penfold]

Honestly, I'm not on commission but do read iain's book. He has a whole section on the pros and cons of prototype versus fictional layouts, but the book would help you to do a fictoinal location in a prototypical manner, if that's what you want to do. There are areas of the book I have not talked about because I dont need to, because all I need to do is follow the prototype.

[Barnaby]

Yes I will get hold of a copy.

I like IAR Books/drawings as they set a layout in the real world which is something I'm poor at.  I have several of his books on layouts kit bashing and plastic building making but he seemed to disappear when the demise of the Digest mag occurred.  Sadly missed that mag by me at least, or though I still have the full set and re-read them from time to time..

I've obviously not been looking in the Rice

places, the one on urban railways looks appealing too.

 

 

Regards

[clecklewyke]

Colin,

 

I wonder if you have yet considered IAR's ideas on the height at which layouts should be presented? See Chapter 2 of Iain's Haynes book.

 

He advocates that for most cases tracks should be at, or just below, eye level. I entirely agree with him on this as it enables the layout to be presented as a three-dimensional picture and simplifies so many issues, such as how to disguise tracks as they disappear off the ends of the visible part of the layout. So I have normally set my layouts, both at home and for exhibition, with tracks at about 56", which is just below my eye level.

 

However, not everyone's eyes are at the same level. I build my layouts mainly for adults to view and minor differences in adult height are not very significant. Children can be coped with by letting them stand on the stout box in which I transport tools, electrics etc. and by offering them a periscope, which is not very good but is fun.

 

However, there is one group of people whom I am worried about disadvantaging, namely the wheel-chair bound. No such person has yet complained about being unable to see but it does seem to me that they would have a valid complaint if after paying an entrance fee for an exhibition they could not see most of the layouts. At the moment, this seems to be rarely the case. I noticed that none of the layouts at the recent ExpoEM North was at eye-level, and the only prize I have ever won was for "The Most Unusual" layout, presumably because of its presentation. (BTW this was no great honour - the previous winner had been a Lego train set...) Nevertheless, I worry.

 

Clecklewyke, which has more than doubled in length since pictured in Iain's book, currently has a station scene at the right hand end of the layout, balanced by a viaduct with deep river valley at the left.

 

 

The track level is 56", which is well above the eye-level of someone in a wheel-chair, but the river is much lower - at 41" above floor level. I am trying to persuade myself that this gives a scene of sufficient interest for someone in a wheel-chair but I am uncertain.

 

What do you think?

 

Would any wheel-chair users like to respond? Are they happy with the solutions Iain proposes, namely periscopes or video cameras and monitors? 

 

Ian

 

 

 

[colin penfold]

If you are interesed theres an old thread on the subject http://rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10692&start=75

 

I have decided on 60" for the upper level and 48" for the lower. As a 6 footer, the higher one suits my standing eye level, and 48 suits a seated eye level. If I was exhibiting I might worry about wheelchair users, but for a home layout in a cellar where a wheelchair user cant get, it's not a consideration.

Edited September 21, 2013 by colin penfold

[colin penfold]

Let's do chapter 6 of Iains book then.

 

Rationales, Lists and Logistics

 

The layout rationale outlines how you intend to turn your research into a model. The book then encourages you to list your priroties for the layout in the form of a wish list, and also list the known constraints. By doing this you ought to be able to arrive at a realistic specification against which you can draw your track plan.

 

The Rationale for my layout is as follows:

 

I will be trying to represent the DNSR between 1943 and 1960, as close to prototypical reality as my funds, abilities and space will allow. This choice allows a wide range of locos and stock (see previous post) and also a mix of liveries. SR (wartime and malachite) GWR and Early BR. The operating sequence will be designed to minimise any possible anachronisms arising from the broad time span chosen. Earlier liveries to be weathered to represent locos which had escaped a repaint.

 

There will be a few departures from strictly prototypical representation to add interest and to suit "Rule 1"

 

• Burghclere lime works remained open, developed and was rail served during the 1943-1960 period
• The DNSR reached their goal of their own station in Southampton Bargate. Due to financial and space contraints the DNS installed a compact terminus for local services and a small goods yard. Docks traffic was received at the station and transferred by shunters to the docks themselves. The station fell under BR(S) control and ended up with some additional local services.

This one is a maybe:

• Through freight and the use of multiple units enabled the line to survive the Beeching cuts. I have a liking for BR Blue, and spent a lot of time in the 1980s photographing traffic on the Berks and Hants line. I may decide to use this rationale to run a 1980s sequence with classes 33,37,47,50,56 and 59, with Yeoman stone trains, Oil, MGR, Freightliners, DMU and DEMU locals and rush hour loco hauled commuter services. A couple of inter-regionals including an HST set complete the mix. This will depend on finance and stock storage space.

The "Wish List"

 

• Continuous run to watch trains and for easy running in
• Trains passing on single line
• A bit of shunting for interest
• Big fiddle yard for hands off operation and to allow the storage of stock between operating sessions (quick set up for running sessions)
• A small area on a curve to replicate the Don Breckon painting "Morning Delivery"
• A scenic Loco Shed area to display locos when not in use
• Burghclere in 1943 condition but with lime works sidings intact
• Southampton to include passenger platforms (3 coach minimum), pilot working (no run round) small goods yard, representation of line into docks. I hope to have an automated shuttle bay for local services so that there will be movement even when I am otherwise occupied. I plan to use shuttle modules to have a bubble car, GW railcar and thumper taking it in turns to run in and out of a dedicated bay platform.
• Shawford Viaduct

The technical factors and constraints:

 

 

 

 Sorry to those of you who came to this before I edited it. I had a nice tabular list on the preview which became a meaningless single column when I hit "post" so I went back and did it as an image.

 

Coming next, chapter 7 which addresses how the layout will be operated

Edited September 22, 2013 by colin penfold

[gwrrob]

The "Wish List"

 

• A small area on a curve to replicate the Don Breckon painting "Morning Delivery"

 

A fabulous thread Colin and I paricularly like this scenario as I find Don Breckon paintings to be usually very modellable in some way.With your mix of regions and liveries you can really do anything here.

[RJS1977]

 Are we to see tradition (if so would recommend ply tops vs. MDF) or new-fangled foam baseboards?

 

 

Plywood? Tradition? I'm still using half inch chippy.... ;-)

[colin penfold]

Thanks Rob, I have a horrible feeling the Don Breckon scene might be one element of the wish list that gives way in the face of harsh reality and space constraints. Paintings and photos can be very inspiring in terms of modelling ideas. I also have High Halden Road by Barrie A F Clark which often gets me pipe dreaming about 7mm Colonel Stephens layouts!

 

Sorry your boys aren't on telly today, s'pose they were never going to compete with that derby game.

[gwrrob]

 

 

 

Sorry your boys aren't on telly today, s'pose they were never going to compete with that derby game.

 

 

OT I know but we've have a job because we played yesterday.

 

I have to admit I thought that painting was a 14xx but on further inspection its actually some Southern tank thingy.

 

http://www.military-art.com/mall/more.php?ProdID=16314

 

Very nice though.