RMweb Gold 46444 Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2013 I've recently found this video on YouTube of operations on the Zillertalbahn during the summer of 2012. I wasn't sure whether to post this question in the narrow gauge section but thought because it related to standard gauge wagons this would be the best place to post this question. At 6.12 mins, 11.05 mins and 14.00 mins the 'piggy back' trains of standard gauge OBB timber wagons can be seen. Out of interest does anyone know what type of OBB timber wagon these are and if any manufacturer makes them? Nice video too-except for dodgy editing. The remote control D10 shunter is great to watch. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike at C&M Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 These wagons tend to be known as "Rollwagen", I leave it to someone else to post a detailed description of how they work. Liliput (by Bachmann) have them in their range from time to time. Remember to look in the 'HOe' (narrow gauge) range, rather than the standard 'HO' range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted October 14, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2013 These wagons tend to be known as "Rollwagen", I leave it to someone else to post a detailed description of how they work. Liliput (by Bachmann) have them in their range from time to time. Remember to look in the 'HOe' (narrow gauge) range, rather than the standard 'HO' range. Thanks for the reply 87029. 'Rollwagen' was the term I was looking for. I've seen Liliput do them in their HOe range. The video shows the standard gauge wagons being shunted off the 'rollwagen' nicely. It's the standard gauge OBB timber wagons I'm interested in. Be interesting if you can get these in HO scale to go with the HOe 'rollwagen'. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hi Mark Just looked at Dybas.de, they look to be type Rbns, I believe Maerklin/Trix make a model though I'm not sure that they do OBB versions. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted October 14, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hi Mark Just looked at Dybas.de, they look to be type Rbns, I believe Maerklin/Trix make a model though I'm not sure that they do OBB versions. Nick Hi Nick, Thanks for the link and also the information re: Marklin/Trix. I'll have a look-though wallet will be kept firmly shut! Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 14, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2013 More than one type of standard gauge wagon was in use when I was there in 2003 - here's one that's almost as it came out of the box! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I wonder if Mike's picture pre-dates the abandonment of the RIV common user wagon fleet? That might explain why it's local OBB wagons now, or it might just be coincidence. Piko have done similar wagons set up for timber transport, although they may not have matched the exact type. Again, the only ones I've seen we're in DBAG livery, so not sure they ever offered them in OBB http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/PIKO/15-4-002002-160758-0-0-0-49-5-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html Edited to add link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Okay, and apologies, I see they weren't all OBB now, so my guess about RIV was meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 14, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2013 I wonder if Mike's picture pre-dates the abandonment of the RIV common user wagon fleet? That might explain why it's local OBB wagons now, or it might just be coincidence. Piko have done similar wagons set up for timber transport, although they may not have matched the exact type. Again, the only ones I've seen we're in DBAG livery, so not sure they ever offered them in OBB http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/PIKO/15-4-002002-160758-0-0-0-49-5-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html Edited to add linnk When my pic was taken there was also at least one DB timber wagon on transporters. Incidentally as I read what I can find (which admittedly isn't very much) about the change from RIV to TSI-WAG there should be no difference. The RIV Regulations (without checking my copy, wherever it is hiding) were basically about technical compliance and standards which is basically completely overtaken by interoperability and therefore rendered redundant - technically there is no longer any need for the RIV marking. As far as I can find there is no sort of restriction on international exchange and use of compliant wagons - but someone else might know different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted October 14, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2013 Jon/Mike. Thanks for your replies. I've had a search around for models of these timber wagons and like you say John the PIKO ones appear to be the only suitable ones available. Thanks once again. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Joueff have done stake wagons (plat a ranchers) which might do at a pinch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted October 14, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2013 Thanks once again Jon. What could be possible is to respray a PIKO one and get some OBB decals custom made for the data panels. Kernow have the wagons at a reasonable price. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm not sure about the high ended stake wagons, but the low ended ones seen being shunted off the Rollwagen are SBB Sps 471. I think Märklin produce them from time to time, but all I can find right now is a similar DB wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2013 Why do I think the NG carrier wagons are called rollbocke? (Umlaut over the second o) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 When my pic was taken there was also at least one DB timber wagon on transporters. Incidentally as I read what I can find (which admittedly isn't very much) about the change from RIV to TSI-WAG there should be no difference. The RIV Regulations (without checking my copy, wherever it is hiding) were basically about technical compliance and standards which is basically completely overtaken by interoperability and therefore rendered redundant - technically there is no longer any need for the RIV marking. As far as I can find there is no sort of restriction on international exchange and use of compliant wagons - but someone else might know different. What has changed is the demise of the EUROP wagon-pooling arrangements, under which certain common types, such as Eaos bogie open wagons (as per your photo, Mike) were effectively 'common user' throughout all the signatory countries. Whilst this did reduce the number of empty wagon movements, it did mean that wagons from certain operators, known for better-quality construction and maintenance regimes, seldom returned to their owner-system. The pooling was meant to apply to revenue-earning traffic, but a surprising number of wagons from other countries could be found in engineer's use in certain countries... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Why do I think the NG carrier wagons are called rollbocke? (Umlaut over the second o) They're the ones which are for a single axle - see this thread on DSO for a couple of examples in use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted October 15, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2013 Thanks for your replies chaps. I'm not sure about the high ended stake wagons, but the low ended ones seen being shunted off the Rollwagen are SBB Sps 471. I think Märklin produce them from time to time, but all I can find right now is a similar DB wagon. Rich thanks as well especially the link to the SBB website. Very useful. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Was in the Zillertal for a week at the beginning of October and there's no round timber being brought into the sawmill at Fügen by rail at the moment. The only evidence of freight traffic was a single SG bogie van which was passed at Schlitters one morning - I presume this was bound for Fügen, possibly for loading with sawn timber. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Fascinating video - thanks for posting! The ZB has got very swanky since I was last there in the early 1980s! I first travelled on it in 1969. At that time, passenger services were in the hands of railcars, including a 3 car set converted from German metre gauge tramcars. There were twice daily steam specials in the summer behind 0-6-2Ts - a U and the Uh seen in the video. At that time, steam (in the shape of the ex SKGLB 0-10-0TT) was still used on freights, there being quite a lot of traffic (sg wagons on rollwagen) at that time in connection with some hydro electric works further up the Zillertal - the ZB had been specially extended for the purpose. Other freights were in the hands of the then recently acquired O & K diesels, one of which can be seen in the background in the scenes of shunting at Jenbach. Timber traffic on Austrian NG lines tended to be seasonal - its normally cut in winter when the sap is low. However, it could be quite heavy. A friend of mine says he saw trains of 80 and 100 loaded timber wagons (NG ones, not SG on rollwagen) hauled by 2095 diesels on the Ybbstalbahn (which I think has now closed) in the 1980s. David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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