DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Posted in this section will be cad/cams of the development of the N gauge class 23 'Baby Deltic' locomotive. Both centre headcode and disc headcode will feature. Please note this model has a coreless motor, flywheels, low friction mechanism and for the first time in UK N gauge a European style NEM close coupling mechanism, along with directional lighting, low friction mechanism, RP25.72 darkened wheel sets, DCC 6 pin decoder socket, etched fan grill with fan visible beneath. As ever, comments etc are welcome. We acknowledge the kind assistance of 'The Baby Deltic Project' with this model. http://www.thebabydelticproject.co.uk/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Sounds good Dave.What is different about the European NEM CCM? Any images of those types of couplings?Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi everyone, here are the latest versions of the centre headcode version of the Baby Deltic model in N gauge. I hope to be able to show you the updated cad/cams of the 23 with disc headcodes later this week. C+C welcome as always. cheers Dave 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Sounds good Dave. What is different about the European NEM CCM? Any images of those types of couplings? Cheers. Hi mate, Before now, all UK N gauge loco's have had NEM coupling boxes fitted to the bogies. The ones for this loco (and will be a standard feature across all DJM N gauge diesels as well as OO gauge, is on a sprung 'cam' that lets out slack on corners and pulls in on the straight, to almost 'buffer to buffer' touching. It's the same sort of system now used on some UK N gauge rolling stock. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi mate, Before now, all UK N gauge loco's have had NEM coupling boxes fitted to the bogies. The ones for this loco (and will be a standard feature across all DJM N gauge diesels as well as OO gauge, is on a sprung 'cam' that lets out slack on corners and pulls in on the straight, to almost 'buffer to buffer' touching. It's the same sort of system now used on some UK N gauge rolling stock. cheers Dave Thanks Dave, understood clearly. It's visible also in the images you posted also. It's almost like the type of coupling used on the Hornby Class 31, 56 60 and 67 AFAIK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hello Dave. Posted in this section will be cad/cams of the development of the N gauge class 23 'Baby Deltic' locomotive. Please note this model has a low friction mechanism As ever, comments etc are welcome. What does a 'low friction mechanism' consist of? M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hello Dave. What does a 'low friction mechanism' consist of? M. Hi Mssy, A low friction mechanism is like Kato and Atlas amongst others have been using for years for the American market with great success. Basically instead of the axles being held by the bogie causing friction, the wheel faces have pin point bearings that ride in brass cups. This frees up the axle to be loose within a loose gear tower. It allows for the whole bogie to be very free running with minimal of friction, and probably the most efficient way of powering the wheels from the motor other than direct drive. Allied to a good motor and flywheels it gives extremely good running and because the brass cups act as pickups gives, providing wheels are clean, a good pickup and electrical transfer. Hope this helps. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Ahhhh right. So its just the wheels. Thanks M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Dave, Looks great and I am looking forward to its release. One question if I may... HOLLERTON JUNCTION (my train set) has 9" curves, will the 23 be OK with these? Many thanks Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi mate, Before now, all UK N gauge loco's have had NEM coupling boxes fitted to the bogies. The ones for this loco (and will be a standard feature across all DJM N gauge diesels as well as OO gauge, is on a sprung 'cam' that lets out slack on corners and pulls in on the straight, to almost 'buffer to buffer' touching. It's the same sort of system now used on some UK N gauge rolling stock. cheers Dave Dave, will the couplings be guided by the pivoting bogies? Reason I ask is that on a lot of modern coaches they aren't and hence they don't couple as easily (or not at all) on curves without intervention from the hand from the sky. This is never an issue with bogie mounted couplers as the coupling always remains central relative to the rails and the coupler on the other vehicle (assuming it's also central). I think it's an important thing to consider. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Dave, will the couplings be guided by the pivoting bogies? Reason I ask is that on a lot of modern coaches they aren't and hence they don't couple as easily (or not at all) on curves without intervention from the hand from the sky. This is never an issue with bogie mounted couplers as the coupling always remains central relative to the rails and the coupler on the other vehicle (assuming it's also central). I think it's an important thing to consider. Cheers, Alan Hi Alan, I agree totally with you, and an easy mod at this stage. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Dave, Looks great and I am looking forward to its release. One question if I may... HOLLERTON JUNCTION (my train set) has 9" curves, will the 23 be OK with these? Many thanks Paddy Hi Paddy, Yes it should go round 9inch radius, and I'll confirm once I'm happy with the finished cad/cam. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted November 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2013 I hope the lighting won't rely on wires running from chassis to body - I lost the lights on my Dapol class 58 because these broke off and were impossible to repair. Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Stephen, The lighting will be chassis mounted. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 A nice photo of an ex-works refurbished version is here - http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?page=52&serial=834&img=RE00541C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Paddy, Yes it should go round 9inch radius, and I'll confirm once I'm happy with the finished cad/cam. Cheers Dave Thanks Dave - really appreciate the prompt response. Kind regards Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Alan, I agree totally with you, and an easy mod at this stage. Cheers Dave Thanks Dave - worth playing with some Farish Mk1s perhaps to see the problem - they are guided by the bogies, but only at curve extremes, so the couplers don't align well. Not a great problem in fixed rakes, but can be for coupling a loco up. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Thanks Dave - worth playing with some Farish Mk1s perhaps to see the problem - they are guided by the bogies, but only at curve extremes, so the couplers don't align well. Not a great problem in fixed rakes, but can be for coupling a loco up. Cheers, Alan Dr Al has probably understated the Farish Mark 1 problem- nearer a nightmare trying to keep them coupled to other stock of any make on a curve, even to other types of Farish coach. The couplers not only don't track the next vehicle but don't track bogie-mounted couplers either, so you have the worst of both worlds..... All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Dr Al has probably understated the Farish Mark 1 problem- nearer a nightmare trying to keep them coupled to other stock of any make on a curve, even to other types of Farish coach. The couplers not only don't track the next vehicle but don't track bogie-mounted couplers either, so you have the worst of both worlds..... All the very best Les Hi Les In my experience there simply is no nightmare Farish Mk1 problem as you describe, nor has any such problem been widely reported to my knowledge. Yes, ok they do not always couple up that easily I'd acknowledge but once coupled I have no problems with inadvertent uncoupling whatsoever. I currently have new Mk1 BGs coupled to Farish four wheeled vans and even a Dapol Stove "R" in a parcels rake and they run just fine together even through the 9 inch rad curves and Set Track points in my Fiddle-Yard. The coaches also couple fine with Dapol Gresleys. Admittedly I have not tried to couple old and new Mk1s together but then why on earth would I want to?? Regards Roy Edited November 11, 2013 by Roy L S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Anyway, back on topic, Dave the N Gauge 23 CADs look absolutely fantastic and it is great that you are taking on board people's constructive feedback just as you did in your pre-DJM days. All I can say is bring on the Clayton! Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Thanks Roy, It's appreciated. I'm looking at a couple of areas that comments have been passed on, just in case, then I shall pass it across the 'Baby Deltic project' desk for another quick check, but all being well it will be very close to metal cutting :-) Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted November 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Les In my experience there simply is no nightmare Farish Mk1 problem as you describe, nor has any such problem been widely reported to my knowledge. Yes, ok they do not always couple up that easily I'd acknowledge but once coupled I have no problems with inadvertent uncoupling whatsoever. I currently have new Mk1 BGs coupled to Farish four wheeled vans and even a Dapol Stove "R" in a parcels rake and they run just fine together even through the 9 inch rad curves and Set Track points in my Fiddle-Yard. The coaches also couple fine with Dapol Gresleys. Admittedly I have not tried to couple old and new Mk1s together but then why on earth would I want to?? Regards Roy I don't like the coupling mech on the newer Farish MK1's and have removed them and replaced them with couplings on the bogies. The idea is good in principle but falls down in use. The couplings won't couple up very well because of lack of 'headroom' for the coupling to rise high enough to clear another, but worse, the springs that are used to 'centre' the couplings also mean the bogies wants to resist turning due to the spring pressue, and I've had infrequent but continual deraliments on curves at times. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I don't like the coupling mech on the newer Farish MK1's and have removed them and replaced them with couplings on the bogies. The idea is good in principle but falls down in use. The couplings won't couple up very well because of lack of 'headroom' for the coupling to rise high enough to clear another, but worse, the springs that are used to 'centre' the couplings also mean the bogies wants to resist turning due to the spring pressue, and I've had infrequent but continual deraliments on curves at times. Izzy Hi Izzy Well everyone is entitled to their opinion of course based on their own experiences, but as I have said already it simply is not mine and foregoing the close-coupling mechanism of the new Mk1s by putting couplings on the bogies is not something I would have any reason/need to consider. Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) Dr Al has probably understated the Farish Mark 1 problem- nearer a nightmare trying to keep them coupled to other stock of any make on a curve, even to other types of Farish coach. The couplers not only don't track the next vehicle but don't track bogie-mounted couplers either, so you have the worst of both worlds..... All the very best Les I've never had those issues of decoupling with rakes of new Farish Mk1s ***. It's just coupling up to them on curves with something else that doesn't work well. Same with Dapol Gresleys or any such long stock with this type of close coupler. Cheers, Alan *** I should add that I run mine with one short shank rapido at one end for full close coupling. Edited November 12, 2013 by Dr Al Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The couplings won't couple up very well because of lack of 'headroom' for the coupling to rise high enough to clear another, This is easily mitigated by shaving a little off the top of the rapido coupler. I've never heard of derailments caused by the couplers though... But alas we are getting slightly off topic here - if Dave does any research/experimentation on this I'd be interested to see the results. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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