cravensdmufan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's little more than conjecture for me, not actually having a model to measure, but on first sight I thought the main windows to look a bit small. The photos other members are posting would seem to support that view. I think it might be compounded by having the driver's door window very slightly too large. Again, guesswork without a model to measure- all I can go on is the relative positions of various details. The depth of the sliding vents also looks out. The roof looks nice, which is something that let down the 108 in my opinion. Yes, looking at it again, the drivers door does indeed appear too large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yes, looking at it again, the drivers door does indeed appear too large. Or, are the main-light windows not deep enough ?. Compare the measurement / distance between the model window's bottom edge, and that of the prototype, shown in BR(S)'s excellent close up shots, to the body bottom edge / sole-bar, on both. Leeds, 1991. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Or, are the main-light windows not deep enough ?. Compare the measurement / distance between the model window's bottom edge, and that of the prototype, shown in BR(S)'s excellent close up shots, to the body bottom edge / sole-bar, on both. ScannedImage-4.jpg Leeds, 1991. Yes, I agree it looks as if the main-light windows are fractionally too shallow. I guess it's a combination of all these things that make the sides of the blue/grey unit look slightly wrong. Which is a mighty shame as we've been waiting years for a decent 101. The 105 is superb, and I was eagerly awaiting top notch blue/grey 101's to replace my two Lima and two Hornby units (I like DMU's!). I'm not sure about replacing them now. Modellers who choose the green or all blue one should be pleased however, as the slight discrepancy will hardly show. Dare I say it, but I also think the raised side window frames on the Hornby model are actually finer than the Bachmann - the Hornby blue/grey sides look pretty well spot on, so all due credit to Lima all those years ago! Anyway, it was only a pre-production model on show. Hopefully it will be sorted before release. Fingers crossed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Having jumped between Shane's excellent photos and those of the real thing, the main issue for me is still the grey not being carried far enough above the windows. I have e-mailed Bachmann regarding this in the hope that they agree and can rectify it, and would urge others to let them know of any issues they feel are relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The front windows should roughly line up with the side windows. Look at a green livery photo with straight lining. The Bachmann windows are too high in relation to the front windows. That is also why the b/g livery looks odd too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Having jumped between Shane's excellent photos and those of the real thing, the main issue for me is still the grey not being carried far enough above the windows. I have e-mailed Bachmann regarding this in the hope that they agree and can rectify it, and would urge others to let them know of any issues they feel are relevant. Excellent idea to email them, fair play to you. I will do the same. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The front windows should roughly line up with the side windows. Look at a green livery photo with straight lining. The Bachmann windows are too high in relation to the front windows. That is also why the b/g livery looks odd too. Like this: 101_Harrogate_8-65 by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 It will be interesting to see how the green pre-production version looks, in view of those observations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Yes, I agree it looks as if the main-light windows are fractionally too shallow. I guess it's a combination of all these things that make the sides of the blue/grey unit look slightly wrong. Which is a mighty shame as we've been waiting years for a decent 101. The 105 is superb, and I was eagerly awaiting top notch blue/grey 101's to replace my two Lima and two Hornby units (I like DMU's!). I'm not sure about replacing them now. Modellers who choose the green or all blue one should be pleased however, as the slight discrepancy will hardly show. Dare I say it, but I also think the raised side window frames on the Hornby model are actually finer than the Bachmann - the Hornby blue/grey sides look pretty well spot on, so all due credit to Lima all those years ago! Anyway, it was only a pre-production model on show. Hopefully it will be sorted before release. Fingers crossed! Having looked at the pre production photos of the Blue Grey 101, I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding the window frames. To me, the raised window frames on the body look a little too 'clunky' which is then made worse by the fine looking frames on the flush glazing. I think what's needed is to reduce the moulded frames that little bit, leaving the window glazing as it is and raise the blue band at the top by a small margin. Otherwise it looks to be a pretty promising model and another winning contender from Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Having looked at the pre production photos of the Blue Grey 101, I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding the window frames. To me, the raised window frames on the body look a little too 'clunky' which is then made worse by the fine looking frames on the flush glazing. I think what's needed is to reduce the moulded frames that little bit, leaving the window glazing as it is and raise the blue band at the top by a small margin. Otherwise it looks to be a pretty promising model and another winning contender from Bachmann. I wonder if the chunky frames are due to the upscaling from 2mm to 4mm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Dare I say it, but I also think the raised side window frames on the Hornby model are actually finer than the Bachmann - the Hornby blue/grey sides look pretty well spot on, so all due credit to Lima all those years ago! Hmm, now there's an idea Bachmann chassis, Lima shell... It would be at home with Bachmann Lima class 40 and my Hornby/Lima 31.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted November 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2013 Here's a few pics of the blue and blue and grey versions and very nice they looked to. Bachmann 101 003 by Shane Wilton, on Flickr Bachmann 101 002 by Shane Wilton, on Flickr Bachmann 101 001 by Shane Wilton, on Flickr cheers Shane I'm going to stick my neck out here, but to me the side window position looks slightly different on the all blue and blue/grey versions. It is difficult to tell from these pictures but is the rain strip part of the roof or bodyside tooling? If bodyside, that would imply they are different tooling and might explain why the all blue version looks better than the blue/grey one. Look carefully at the height of the ventilators in the bodyside windows - to me they look just a bit deeper on the blue/grey version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOgaugeJaf Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Another item on my shopping list, do we know when they will reach the shops? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I've received the following reply from Bachmann regarding the height of the grey part of the livery above the windows: Thank you for your email. I have passed your comments onto our research and development team for their consideration. I can assure you that our engineers have worked tirelessly to ensure that these models correctly represent the prototype units. The application of the Blue/Grey livery varied between different units and the application of this livery on the model that you refer to is based on photographic evidence and is correct for the unit which the model portrays. I trust this information is of interest to you. Kind regards Only picture I can find of the unit Bachmann have modelled (based on visible number E51435 in Warley photos). I'm not convinced myself: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicholasy/5781921725/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted December 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2013 I've received the following reply from Bachmann regarding the height of the grey part of the livery above the windows: Thank you for your email. I have passed your comments onto our research and development team for their consideration. I can assure you that our engineers have worked tirelessly to ensure that these models correctly represent the prototype units. The application of the Blue/Grey livery varied between different units and the application of this livery on the model that you refer to is based on photographic evidence and is correct for the unit which the model portrays. I trust this information is of interest to you. Kind regards I got the same message. I replied making the point that, even if correct for the vehicle numbers being produced, people may want more than one and/or be able to renumber. This is made more difficult if the common or standard livery is not applied but some local variant instead. So Bachmann risks losing sales. Looking back, how many times has Bachmann done this though and the models are still sitting on retailers' shelves - 47301's non-standard red stripe railfreight livery for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 The funny thing is, I was looking at the Bachmann/Farish N version in a model shop the other day, and the relative positions of the various windows looked OK. It's very strange that the N model has been got right, but the 00 one has a slip up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Both Robert's and BR(S)'s pics confirm that the mainlight windows are deeper than the door's droplights. The model's windows don't give me that impression. In fact, coupled with their chunky frames, the bottom edge of the main windows look to be above that of the door's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Could it be that on the model the aluminum frame is part of the transparent plastic window moulding and as such sitting inside the whole in the body created for the window? I think if you took the windows out the model would compare very favorably with the prototype, i.e. the windows being lower than the drop lights in the doors. It is the thickness of the aluminum surround that gives the impression that the bottom edge of the window being level or higher that the drop lights in the doors that have no such surrounds. Could I take a guess that the aluminum surround should have been painted on the body and not on the glass? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I think one of the reasons that the windows look too small (especially on the blue/grey livery) is that Bachmann have modelled the black rubber surrounds that hold the alloy window frames, as part of the body moulding. Bachmann haven't painted these black on the livery samples. The black rubber surrounds on the prototype give the impression that the windows are larger. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I also got exactly the same reply as you and BR(S). I still believe the Warley sample is wrong. I spent years travelling on these units - Norwich ones. As soon as I saw it I knew it wasn't quite right. Let's hope that all the comments may make them look at it again - remember the original B/G Mk2's were slightly wrong as well - last years re-releases were corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Yes, I agree the droplight door windows look too low. It now appears there are quite a number of small things not quite right which all add up to a disappointing representation of the real thing. If it is released like this I'm afraid I'll be hanging on to my Lima and Hornby ones. Which is really annoying as I wanted models equal to, and accompany, my really excellent Bachmann 105's! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Here is a side-on view: E50217_Selby_1512-Leeds-Hull_25-8-81 by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Perfect photo Robert, which illustrates that Bachmann door windows are definitely too low. I hope they are following all this at Barwell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 So, will this be a vast improvement on the Hornby (ex Lima) model I recently acquired very cheaply in green 3 car format to accompany another earlier purchase to make a 2-car unit and 4-car unit? Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted December 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2013 So, will this be a vast improvement on the Hornby (ex Lima) model I recently acquired very cheaply in green 3 car format to accompany another earlier purchase to make a 2-car unit and 4-car unit? Regards, Don't really know yet, but I'm pleased that I got a 3car B&G Hornby version for my birthday, which I know was £57 from Hattons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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