Recommended programs for use with RailCom

[Taigatrommel]

Forgive my ignorance, this is a subject I really don't know anything much about.

 

I want to have accurately operating signalling and some automation of trains on my TT layout.  Owing to the fact that some of the locos use Plux decoder interfaces, RailCom seems to be the obvious choice of train ID feedback.  As such, so far I've stuck with Lenz decoders in most of my locos, save for one fitted with a TAMS LD-G-31 owing to space.

 

User friendliness is my priority.  I simply don't have any coding knowledge.  I'd like to be able to have trains on the main oval running automatically, sometimes passing on the loop.  This seems simple enough.  The spanner in the works is that I'd also like to be able to periodically bring a train out from the manually controlled industrial branch and into the storage tracks, and vice versa.  Below is a crude schematic of the setup.

 

 

My signalling will be the ex Deustche Reichsbahn (DDR) Hl system.

 

While this is a very simple scheme, it's also a learning exercise for me prior to a much larger project that I would like to have similar automation and signalling on.

 

Quite simply, I'm looking for a recommendation of a program that is user friendly to achieve my goals.  Of course, the cheaper the better as well, I'm only human!

[Tricky Dicky]

Support for Railcom is very patchy, which is a pity as it has so much to offer. What support there is depends much on the hardware you intend to use namely the Railcom detectors. As far as I know (I may be wrong) Traincontroller supports Railcom using Tams and ECoS equipment and Rocrail appears to support Tams hardware. As far I know JMRI, and SSI do not support Railcom and I do not know about iTrain or Win-digipet. The guys at DCC4PC have some downloads which enables their hardware to make use of Tams protocols in Traincontroller but I believe there are some limitations. They are also selling their own software Rail Commander but it is early days in its development, but they are offering free upgrades as the software develops.

 

Richard

[Taigatrommel]

Thanks for your help Richard.  Having looked further into my options, I think the route I will take is RFID in conjunction with JMRI.  It's slightly frustrating that I can't easily take full advantage of the decoders' features, but RFID makes it cheaper to add wagon IDs too.

[Matt Harris]

Just to let you know that support for RailCom in JMRI has been available since version 3.0 - see release note at:

 

http://jmri.org/releasenotes/jmri3.0.shtml

 

Note that the DCC4PC reader isn't supported under Windows, but works fine on Linux and OS X.

 

RFID is fine, when using either the MERG kits or derivatives based on the COREID protocol.

[two tone green]

The DCC4PC 16 Zone Railcom Reader works on my Windows PC and with RR&Co which is PC based.

[Matt Harris]

I was probably a bit unclear in my comment regarding support for DCC4PC on Windows - this was purely meant to apply to the context of JMRI.

 

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[TartanTrax]

Thanks for your help Richard.  Having looked further into my options, I think the route I will take is RFID in conjunction with JMRI.  It's slightly frustrating that I can't easily take full advantage of the decoders' features, but RFID makes it cheaper to add wagon IDs too.

Hi Rich, I'm slightly puzzled trying to work out what you are trying to achieve by identifying wagon ID's. Based on your layout sketch, I can see why you thought (probably correctly) that RailCom could help you run several trains at the same time by adding a bit of automation to your system. For what purpose would you need to know the identity of the wagons as well?

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[Taigatrommel]

Ray,

 

Wagon ID is a consideration for a large long term US-style system project which will have storage & industry sidings "offscene" - I'm using this little layout as a test bed.  I had been going to use rake IDs as most trains will be block trains but the lower cost of RFID would allow individual wagons to be identified.

 

The goal for this layout is simply automation, but if I can incorporate the more advanced features to get to grips with them before a large scale installation, all the better.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Taigatrommel

[TartanTrax]

Wagon ID is a consideration for a large long term US-style system project which will have storage & industry sidings "offscene" - I'm using this little layout as a test bed.  I had been going to use rake IDs as most trains will be block trains but the lower cost of RFID would allow individual wagons to be identified.

The goal for this layout is simply automation, but if I can incorporate the more advanced features to get to grips with them before a large scale installation, all the better.

 

Hi again Rich,

 

Thanks for your reply. You may be right that RFID is the way to go as it may work out cheaper depending on how it is implemented. We have recently been contacted by some modelers in the USA regarding some very ambitious projects, not to mention absolutely huge and very complex layouts with predicted build times ranging from 15 years to over 20 years and from the problems they have identified as needing solving you may find some common ground with your own future plans. I have a sneaky feeling that the software you use may play a significant role too. Another option which might give you the best of both worlds might be to use a combination of two systems, such as RFID & RailCom with software that then propagates these values around your layout via a prediction algorithm.

 

If you want to contact me directly regarding any of this, my email address is: dcc4pc@gmail.com

 

Merry Christmas & a prosperous New Year,

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[RailCom_Fan]

Support for Railcom is very patchy, which is a pity as it has so much to offer. What support there is depends much on the hardware you intend to use namely the Railcom detectors. As far as I know (I may be wrong) Traincontroller supports Railcom using Tams and ECoS equipment and Rocrail appears to support Tams hardware. As far I know JMRI, and SSI do not support Railcom and I do not know about iTrain or Win-digipet. The guys at DCC4PC have some downloads which enables their hardware to make use of Tams protocols in Traincontroller but I believe there are some limitations. They are also selling their own software Rail Commander but it is early days in its development, but they are offering free upgrades as the software develops.

 

Richard

 

This thread seems to mention DCC4PC quite a lot, but I wonder if you know what the situation is there.  I think you should check out their website, maybe starting with this page:

-     http://dcc4pc.co.uk/progress_to_date.html

 

You will see that it starts with the following text:  "Progress to Date  12th December 2012"

Given this lack of progress for the 12 months to @TartanTrax's response, I'm not surprised that @TartanTrax suggested direct contact, rather than a public conversation.

 

The DCC4PC website makes all sorts of promises, but with no activity for almost exactly 4 years, and only 1 retailer on Planet Earth, that hardly seems like a great supplier to go with.  Lenz isn't any better.  They have been threatening to produce the necessary hardware for years too, without much visible progress.

 

One of DCC4PC website's promises is a DCC Command Station.  While they have been promising for 4 years, others have actually delivered.  Here are 2 you might like to look at:

-     http://www.digikeijs.com/catalog/product/view/id/165/s/dr5000-adj-dcc-multi-bus-central/

-     http://www.z21.eu/en/What-is-Z21/System

 

Both of these support RailCom, but that's only part of the battle for the type of automation being discussed here.

 

One of the common misconceptions is that RailCom only supports 1 device per Block/Section.  This just isn't correct.  So, you could have a slew of cars each with their own RailCom transponder, such as:

-     http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/LRC100.html

-     http://www.esu.eu/en/products/accessories/railcomr-transmitter-unit/

(You don't need a whole DCC Decoder - One of these tiny transponder-type devices would do it)

 

OK, so now you have cars with lots of RailCom Sender modules, all sending out their Decoder numbers.  Now you need some way to locate where they are.  This is why @TrickyDicky suggested the DCC4PC 16 channel "RailCom Reader" (http://dcc4pc.co.uk/our_products.html).  A company called TAMS also has an 8 channel RailCom detector, the RCD-8 (http://tams-online.de/45-0108x).  ESU have the 50094 ECoSDetector which is 16 channel detector, but only 4 channels with RailCom (http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/ecosdetector/technical-data/).  Lenz have the LRC110 (15110) & LRC130 (15130), neither of which are available to be purchased yet.  So, 16, 8 and 4 channel hardware, but nothing from Lenz.

 

OK, so now we have cars, and a means of detecting where they are, but how to use that information?  Software is what you need!  Software to process the RailCom packets, as they are sent out from each RailCom decoder on the layout.  And, then you need to do something with all those packets - The automation, that was the original requirement.

 

If you thought the availability of hardware was an issue, the software is another quagmire to drown in.  DCC4PC have something called "RailCommander" ("Rail Commander" in the pictures, so I guess only God knows what it's real name is).  You can find a write-up on their website here:

-     http://dcc4pc.co.uk/rail_commander.html

(Even the website thinks it's "Rail Commander")

 

The latest version is 0.2.1 (http://dcc4pc.co.uk/RailCommander%200.2.1.exe), which suggests it is still in BETA.  My own testing of the automation it performs confirms this.  One of the things RailCommander is supposed to be able to do is bring a loco to a halt when the loco in front is too close.  Would you believe that it routed a through train into a dead-end, because the section in front of the through-track had another loco in it?

 

The RailCommander manual (http://dcc4pc.co.uk/RailCommander%20Manual.pdf) is similarly basic, and only at version 0.1.  It seems to have been written by technical people, with very little attempt to reach the average modeler in the USA that struggles with all the CVs in a decoder.  The Planned Features for Future Releases section says:  "The list below contains some of the features which will soon be added to RailCommander".  Four years seems a long time to wait, and still be considered "soon".

 

There is other software, such as JMRI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Model_Railroad_Interface) & Rocrail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocrail).  Both of these are extensive pieces of software, and possibly beyond the reach of the average modeler in the USA (I apologise for using the average Modeler in the USA as the lowest common denominator, but there are a lot of them, and if you can't sell your products to them, then you eliminate a very large market).  @twotonegreen is using the Railroad & Co software on a PC.  Unfortunately, I have no experience with the RR&Co software.

 

So, in summary, there is some hardware, but software is the key.  And, the software promises a lot, but some - like RailCommander - are not yet up to the task.

 

If you can speak German, there are quite a few more alternatives open to you.  The Germans love RailCom, and there is quite a lot of RailCom expertise among modelers there.  Alas, I don't speak German, and there doesn't seem to be much of a movement to expand their knowledge to English-speaking modelers.

 

While RailCom promises a lot, and was first released on 8th July, 2011, it hasn't penetrated the English-speaking world yet.  As such, we are still struggling with all the above issues.  From the above, only 1 person seemed to suggest that they were obtaining a benefit from RailCom.  Given that @TartanTrax said they were working on a project with a duration of 15 to 20 years, we might still have 11 to 16 years to wait for them to sort things out.  To be fair, Lenz haven't even suggested a timeline, and ESU believe that only 4 out of 16 Channels need to have RailCom detection capability.

[Taigatrommel]

Wow, there's an old thread to resurrect!  My experiments have continued slowly, and lately have turned to Rocrail, which once set up seems to work- at least as far as having made trains work with simulated detection goes.  I'm trying to get a PIC programmer to work for use with actual train detection, but the one I bought doesn't want to play so far.  There's also relatively easy integration with RFID in Rocrail.

[diehard]

http://www.digikeijs.com/dr5088rc-digidetect.html

 

These guys have a RailCom device

[RAF96]

The Rocrail forum is very good and if you ask specifics about PIC support either someone will jump in with info or the writers will look at it if you can provide the associated spec, your trackplan and the other files requested when you submit a report using the built in system.

[keybuk]

Home-made RailCom detectors are pretty easy, you just need something to send the responses to