Speke East Sidings - Minimum Space Modern N Gauge

[Timmy84]

Hi

 

I thought I would try and put a topic together to track the trials and tribulations of putting together a small layout. I have a spare baseboard that has been knocking around for some time measuring 50 inches by 11.5 inches that previously had a very poor diesel depot layout on it that I built several years ago. I have since built a small round and round layout called Powderham to run my ever growing collection of stock, some pictures of which can be found in my gallery. However I have been meaning to put something together that is more suitable for photographing stock so hence the description "glorified photo plank"!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/2550-powderham-minimum-space-n-gauge-layout/

 

 

I make no apologies for adding yet another diesel depot layout to the world but I am hoping to add some novelty and learn from my mistakes last time. The main ideas are as follows:

 

• The depot is to appear to be part of a larger yard, such as the one at Peterborough or Warrington Arpley
• Despite the tiny board, there will be off-scene space at both ends so locos can trundle through as well as stop
• I will make use of some of the excellent Bachmann scene craft buildings available, both to make quick progress and as they will be better than what I would build! Despite their ubiquitous nature, I haven't seen too many layout making use of some of them...
• To add relief and more than one track height - a challenge in a small space!
• To try and incorporate catenary (maybe)
• Incorporate lighting
• Build a "box" around the board to make a nice display

The first challenge was to remove the remnants of the old layout from the board - the strange gap at the end is actually a makeshift traverser that never really did the job and will be fixed in position going forward.

 

 

Stripping the board was a bit monotonous but went fairly well leaving a nice blank canvas....

 

 

Next up was to get some of the old points and a few locos on the board to get a feel for how much space is available. Having a fiddle yard both ends doesn't leave much room for maneuver but it looks hopeful that a single road shed and a two road fuel point can be accommodated, along with a depot through road and a separate yard "reception line" running along the back to allow a few wagons to trundle by...

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I hope the topic will prove to be of interest to some one out there - next steps are to finalise the track plan and try and get my head around the woodwork required to build a backscene and a box around the viewing area.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Timmy84

[Adamphillip]

looking good already, nice solid base to start

[porkie]

Nothing wrong at all with depot layouts timmy84.

 

As already said you have a good base to start with, have a play and fiddle with your track until you have the plan you want.

[Timmy84]

Thanks for the encouragement. Not sure I'll be getting a shed the size of the one on Milton Grove on my board though!

[Timmy84]

First attempt on XtrckCAD to see what might work (apologies for poor quality of computer skills!). Servicing shed to the right hand end with ability to run a train in to the fiddle yard straight from the shed. Two terminal sidings for the fuel point. Access to depot from both fiddle yards and the separate reception line running to the rear (this is the bit I might electrify).

 

Should be space for at least two locos on each fuel road and one in and one out of the shed on the shed road.

 

Any thoughts appreciated - not too many options with the space but I am trying to think of creating a different scene at each end for photographic purposes.

 

One of my main concerns at the moment is dreaming up two convincing looking scenic breaks in less than 3 feet!....

[rob D2]

Nobody objects to diesel TMDs, but it's nice when they look like real TMDs, not an assortment of Bachmann ready to plant items that recall 1970s/ 80s depots with 2000s rolling stock,

It's realism that marks out those worthy

[shanks522]

Hi Timmy, 

 

 Looking forward to seeing this evolve, As for the scenic break's, had you considered extending the servicing shed to the board end so it could hold two loco's, then the building would hide whatever train you'd like to use behind it?

 Maybe something like this? the blue area would be raised with a retaining wall along the front then whatever you'd like on top with a bridge/tunnel mouth for the running line, i don't know what track your using but if you where to use Peco code 55 then the three way point would save a lot of space although with this plan it wouldn't matter if you used two single points. 

 

Cheers 

 

Graham.

 

 

 

[Timmy84]

All good thoughts - I had thought about pushing the shed back to the board but I felt that then precluded having a line coming in front of it as I would have to have some kind of bridge structure effectively stuck to the shed! Having a small separation between shed and over-bridge seemed sensible to me, although I could always move the shed to the front...

 

I used the idea of having a hidden siding behind a retaining wall on my last layout and it works well, however one of my key objectives with this one is to create a sense of the servicing point being part of something bigger (i.e a larger yard) to reflect modern practice as well as create "a point" to the whole thing. I have found that when you start to think about locos moving through the layout without stopping it starts getting more complicated! I am also trying to avoid too much zig-zagging across the layout which again, is rarely seen in real life.

 

In terms of Rob D2's comment - I have to warn you that there is a high chance of the odd "ready-to-plant" building appearing on this thread!

 

What I am trying to do, in a very small space is exactly what you are suggesting in terms of replicating 2000s era practice rather than having loco's appear and disappear through one portal and stop on some highly unlikely great big diesel depot. The Bachmann single road servicing shed just happens to fit that quite nicely and whilst I might scratch build a shed at some stage, it will do for now! As the point of the layout is largely to photograph locos and stock what I don't want is too much attention being drawn to a home-made building that may not be up to scratch. I will be weathering and detailing any ready to plant so I don't feel too lazy!

[Timmy84]

Whilst writing that last comment I was reminded of this photo I took at Bristol Barton Hill in 2010.Old style shed building, 08, 47 and a blue grey Mk2. There's an excuse for most things if you look hard enough!

[porkie]

The Bachmann single shed is based on the depot at Peterborough, have a Google search and see it you get any idea's.

 

Not sure if their is a link to the old Rmweb page.

 

Their was a thread on their on small depot plans. Which had some exceptional plans

[porkie]

Ive just done a quick search and found a few threads that may help you out.

 

I know most are OO but all you have to do is half everything in size

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56851-factory-lane-depot/

[rob D2]

There are , of course, exceptions and it depends when you are modelling.

In the late 90s several of the traditional looking sheds were still going like Cardiff, Bristol, old oak common....

There's not many at all left now as EWS progressively got rid of them

[Timmy84]

I had a little trawl through some old photos for inspiration in terms of features I can fit in to the space available.

 

 

This one shows some of the interior features of the shed at Maritime Yard, Southampton, including lifting jacks, although wagons seem to occupy the shed more often than locos here.

 

 

I like the stored wheelsets on the running line in this shot from Bristol Barton Hill. At Maritime there is a completely seperate piece of track not connected to the running line used for this purpose but I can't find a shot of it.

 

 

Another shot of 47815 at Barton Hill showing some general fuel point clutter.

 

 

Maritime again, with 66536 taking wagons past the fuel point - it was this location that gave me the idea to hint at being part of something bigger with trains able to run through the layout rather than entering and exiting at the same end.

 

 

Here 66501 is seen undertaking some reasonably complex maintenance exposed to the elements. when it rains at Maritime they seem to put locos under the road bridge to make a makeshift TMD! I also like the maintenance platform and other general clutter in this pic.

 

 

Hoping to do some shopping in the none to distant that will allow some actual modelling to start - rather than pure speculation!

 

Tim.

[Timmy84]

OK - back to the models and some (limited) progress.

 

I have acquired one or two bits and bobs over the last few days to try and get the project started. Firstly I have now got hold of all the MDF required to make the backscene and box in the baseboard. This was achieved quickly and hassle free using B&Qs excellent timber cutting service where, for no charge, you can have up to 15 cuts done on most types of timber they stock. As I needed some pieces to be as narrow as 2 inches to be honest I was not confident that they would be able to meet my requirements but I needn't have worried. In less than ten minutes I had the 8 pieces of MDF required in the correct size saving me hours of work! 6mm MDF is being used - I used this for the backscene on Powderham and it has held up well so hopefully this will be repeated.

 

Secondly I popped in to my local model shop and picked up some Peco platform sides, bridge sections, a Woodland Scenics culvert and a Xuron track cutter (have needed this for ages! - no more hack-sawing for me!). The bits and bobs are all for further down the road but they have helped me think about incorporating some relief and I can get them all sprayed up and weathered in advance. Unfortunately they had sold out of the Peco inspection pit that I wanted to deal with at the same time so I need to pick one of these up elsewhere.

 

I have also had a rummage through all my old scenic stuff and it looks like I have enough foam etc to make all the raised areas without spending a penny. With all this in mind a bit of 3D planning took place this pm, with the results pictured below...

 

This first images show the "box" taking shape (all precariously balanced at this stage...)

 

 

 

Here we see two 66s on the fuel point and a 60 and a 66 on the proposed "shed road"

 

 

 

Two more angles - note the raised "yard reception road" in the background that will operate separately, hinting at shunting and arrivals and departures from the "wider world".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[porkie]

Love the steel class 60, looking good.

 

Keep the updates coming

[60006]

Is that a mercig 60 by any chance?

Looks lovely either way.

Can't wait to see more progress.

 

Tom.

[Timmy84]

Tom - great to see there's another photo plank out there! It's my 60 - can't afford Mercig!

 

As you've encouraged me here's a close up....you all asked for it.

 

[Timmy84]

Anyway, must stop getting distracted from the layout.

 

I gave up on xtrkCAD and got my pencil and ruler out after taking some measurements during the 3D planning exercise. With the words "keep it simple" going round my head I have as good as settled on the track plan below. Apologies to anyone expecting something more exciting. 

 

 

It fits pretty much all my requirements - it should create two or three distinct scenes for photos, the servicing shed, the fuel point and sidings and the raised reception line. I would love to pack in more but I wanted a few inches of scenics at the front of the baseboard to add perspective and some space for some kind of low relief buildings at the back. 

 

Stock can obviously move A to B and vice versa along the reception, as well as appear and then shunt back towards the direction of the yard (perceived to be at A). This would be nice with an 08 and a few wagons.

 

Locos can also traverse from C to E through the depot without zig-zagging. Point D allows a loco to arrive/depart from the shed if it is boxed in by something else parked outside (where the 60 is in the shots above - the shed would be over 66098).

 

Below is a 3D sketch of how it all might "feel".

 

 

Comments welcome as I wont be doing anything too permanent as yet but thats the (current) plan!

 

Tim

[rob D2]

Problem is, and the trap....most fuel points are " drive through" otherwise you trap your newly fuelled locos , could you do them with an offscreen fiddle like your shed ?

[Timmy84]

A very fair observation and in some of my earlier sketches I wasn't intending to have any terminus roads to give maximum flexibility.

 

Two things led me to chopping the two fuel roads off as it were: firstly I wanted to avoid mirror image scenic breaks at both ends and secondly it is useful to have somewhere to dump a loco on the blocks sometimes. The fuel pump will be at the end nearest the points so a loco not needed for a while can sit out of the way on the buffers with others coming and going as well. This was a key mistake I made on my last TMD attempt as I positioned the pump at the end of a terminus road rendering the rest of the siding useless.

 

Further more in terms of the scenic breaks, I was also concerned that having 4 roads disappearing to the left would leave a lot of the fiddle yard on show in photos as there isn't much board left after you go under the bridge!

 

In terms of prototype most things exist somewhere. A lot of yards have a drive through, Southampton Maritime being a prime example pictured on this thread (although in reality locos tend to come and go from the west avoiding the wagon shed). I believe places like Didcot, Avonmouth, Eastleigh, Warrington Arpley, Barton Hill and Westbury (I think this is a siding with a tanker parked by it) and I think maybe Acton Yard all have dead end set ups of varying complexity. A bit of modeller's licence is always going to come in to play unless you recreate a real location which wouldn't be easy with on 50 inches to play with.

 

Tim.

[Timmy84]

Peco inspection pit located today so when I next get a chance I will be airbrushing this and some of the other civils that will be required before any track can go down. This will also give me a bit of time to think about the design and double-check I am happy. 

 

May be a slight interlude in updates in the meantime!

 

Tim

[Timmy84]

Hi

 

Day off today so a chance to get a bit done with the airbrush. Thought I would do a bit of a step-by-step of the process.

 

As previously stated I am working on some of the civils structures so they are finished and ready to be placed on the layout, so things like bridge supports, retaining walls, inspection pit, culverts etc. Firstly everything got a coat of Alclad 2 primer to ensure that an even finish is achieved.

 

 

This is a boring and messy job but its worth it as trying to spray the final colour on shiny plastic is always a disaster. The second phase was then to spray Railmatch roof dirt in to all the areas where there would be shadow or dirt might accumulate. This is a rough job as the next step, once completely dry, will be to lightly spray the basic top colour over the top, with the dark areas beneath being blended in.

 

 

I have also purchased some lifecolor pigments for leaks and stains so looking forward to getting to the stage where I can try these out!

 

Tim.

[Timmy84]

After over 3 years and two house moves, there may be some updates on this topic soon! Some bits and bobs arrived from Hattons today to get this project moving!!

 

Tim.

[Timmy84]

So, some actual modelling.

 

Here is the completed airbrushed Peco inspection pit that will be going in the single road shed.

 

It may get a bit of weathering at some point....

[Timmy84]

There has also been some more messing about with card and polystyrene.

 

The 60 is at the height it will be whereas the shed will be not quite as high, but higher than it is here!

 

 

The idea is to get the difference as close as possible to the height of a platform edge, some of which will form part of the retaining bank.

 

 

More updates soon....

 

Tim.