Andrew P Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hi all, I am due to move house soon and the property has a Pre Cast Concrete Garage, has anyone any experience of having a layout in one? I would insulate and line it but it already has daylight showing in some joins, I would also do the floor with insulation. The choice is that, or demolish it and buy a 16 x 10 Timber Shed and insulate and line that. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks. Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hi all, I am due to move house soon and the property has a Pre Cast Concrete Garage, has anyone any experience of having a layout in one? I would insulate and line it but it already has daylight showing in some joins, I would also do the floor with insulation. The choice is that, or demolish it and buy a 16 x 10 Timber Shed and insulate and line that. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks. Andy. As long as it is well ventilated to prevent condensation there should not be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loickebros Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 The choice is that, or demolish it and buy a 16 x 10 Timber Shed and insulate and line that. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks. Andy. Demolishing it may not be cheap as these usually had asbestos roofs which would be exspensive to have removed. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hi Andy Do you have any idea how old it is? There are a number of potential issues with these. Concrete is never in a steady state. It continues getting harder and harder for up to 30 years depending on conditions and then goes into a decline. These garages continue to be sound for decades but they do reach a point where they start to crumble a bit in the corners and around the fixings after a while and when disturbed eg. When drilling. They can also be incredibly hard to drill into. Depending on the roof material, often asbestos on older ones, they can suffer terribly from condensation if totally sealed. If they're not sealed, they are going to be difficult and/or expensive to heat. Another thing to look out for is sealing between the sides and the base. They normally have a concrete fillet around the outside of the base of the walls. This often deteriorates and crumbles with age but is not difficult or expensive to remedy. These are just a few things to look out for. As I said, they remain sturdy for decades and, if yours is sound, there's no reason why it shouldn't make a good home for your layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcos Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 my layout is in a pre-cast garage with asbestos roof. i sealed the asbestos roof with bitumen then put stud wall in front of up and over door 50mm insulation on walls roof etc then plaster board over insulation. insulation on floor then this is where my job helps heating engineer, underfloor heating then chipboard on top. warm in winter cool in summer. then to get in you have to open 10mm steel rod door then external door then internal door. alarm linked to house alarm. but it helps when you can get things at trade prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 My pre cast garage has a steel roof and despite everything I have tried the temperature difference between inside and outside causes condensation My personal opinion hire a skip have a party to knock it down (make sure the roof isn't asbestos first) then get that wooden shed up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I moved too a house with a similar concrete garage a few years back, I use the garage for a return loop on my G scale garden line, this works fine as after all G scale is essentially an outdoor system unaffected by heat cold & damp, However I have tried to utilise part of the garage for smaller scales ( 00, N & 0n30 not all at the same time!!) but found that despite efforts to insulate the building it is too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter and not a very good enviroment in which too 'model' So a couple of years back I bought a wooden shed, which I insulated and in the colder months I use a simple convector heater in it which only needs to be on a low setting to maintain a comfortable working ( modelling) enviroment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 You might find it worth your while to dismantle and sell on rather than demolish - you will then have extra funds to contribute to its replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 As noted upthread, insulation and ventilation are the keys. I'd put an insulated inner wall in (making sure there's an air gap and moisture barrier as appropriate) and probably put a second skin over the top of the existing roof with insulation in between. I'm not sure what ventilation options are available in the UK, but given availability I'd put at least two 'whirlybird' type ventilators on the roof and ensure that there are adjustable apertures in any doors and windows to let fresh air in. Properly insulated you shouldn't need much heating in winter. Maybe a small oil radiator to take the worst of the chill off. Summer should be bearable if the ventilation's working. Tha above is, more or less, what I've done with my current all steel sheds, and it works brilliantly (they're actually a more comfortable and stable environment than my house) but the different material and different climate involved may invalidate it all. Thinking about it, concrete has a good bit of thermal mass which can help keep temperatures stable. Ideally you want the thermal mass inside the insulation so, on reflection, I might just put a gyprock skin on the inside and then, if feasible, clad the outside with something like weatherboard or corrugated steel with insulation between that and the concrete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted December 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2013 Get shut of it and build a big shed by the time you have spent a fortune on it insulating it you might have 12x7 foot left, if your LGP is in O then less than 3ft 6inch radius curves are not attractive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I had exactly the same type of garage where my layout was stored (my grandparents garage) before my grandparents moved, it had a steel roof and became extremely damp in the colder months. Just moved last week and now have access to a block built asbestos roofed garage. Hopefully it doesn't condensate but my advice (if you have a steel roofed garage) would be to just build a new shed as the cost of a new roof would not be worth it as everything still needs to be insulated as well. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 OT? The LNER used wooden brake vans. They then constructed an example in concrete. I've heard that it was deemed a failure, universally disliked by guards as too cold? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Cheers Guys, I am a Month or two from making the final decision but ALL your comments both for and against have been duly noted in the Old Grey Fodder I call my Brain. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I bought a new 22' x 12' sectional garage back in 1982 for my O gauge railroad. Lined with 2x2 frames filled with 2" polysterene and finished with 1/2" insulation board. I moved house in 1993, dismantled layout then the garage carefully, stored the lot for a few months then re-erected it all on a new concrete base, keeping original 2" x 2" internal frames / polystyrene and most of the insulation board. The layout was completely renewed to a better "walk in" design though Been in there today, warm as toast after a fan heater has been on for 1/2 hour. The structure wood doors and roof (asbestos) is all original and sound. Some woodwork has been replaced over the years, though not much. I repaint the woodwork evert 3 - 4 years using good paint (Johnstones). It will last for many years more to. Regrets - none. Problems - virtually none. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Just one point, insurers are none too keen on wooden buildings for security for some reason. I found it impossible to get a sensible quote a year or two back, of course I could have been asking the wrong people! Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Gavin, (Stannyblade ) has made a very good point in favour of the Concrete Garage and that is long term maintenance. As it is situated in the corner of the garden it would make it impossible to paint and maintain the back and therefore it will start to rot a lot quicker than the current concrete one. I will replace the up and over door with a new UPVC door and window and hopefully put in a longer side window in UPVC as well. I will line the floor with 2 inch polystyrene and 3/4 chipboard and then lino on top. And then do the walls with Kingspan and plywood. Thanks again for all your help and advice. Bodgit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2013 Have you thought about replacing the roof? by doing so you could sort out any ventilation and some insulation problems at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Looks like a decent garage Andrew, I would definitely keep it. The main thing is waterproofing before any lining etc. I sealed all my panels with clear silicone sealant, All vertical and horizontal joins, both inside and out. I suppose these days there are alternative gun applied sealants available. Pay particular attention to the wall / floor join. Also fit gutters as rainwater (lots of it) falling off the roof will do no good at all. I also used mastic to seal any gap between the roof panels and walls. Once its 100% watertight you can line it out. I still have the concrete floor, sealed with dilute PVA and painted grey with floor paint. Floor is a bit cold sometimes but no damp. Biggest problem I have is that because its a large dry room and wife / kids store bikes a food freezer, etc etc in there under the layout !!!!! Don't forget to fit a burglar alarm, mine is wired into the house system. Insurance not an issue (Magnet model insurance) as long as you conform to their requirements re locks etc. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted December 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2013 Looking at how much space you have in the garden keeping the garage does seem the best option, the power feed probably has grandfather rights anything new has to have an electrician and underground cable..... The windows will have to go in the panels and leave the columns to hold the roof up/on. Make sure you are supplied a house door when you change the front of the garage and that should cover the locks for insurance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Cheers again guys, I have been looking at the cost of a Roller front door this morning and that may be a better bet than a normal door as it will still look like a Garage. I have a roller door at our present House and it takes up such little room inside it could be o.k. If I go for the roller option I might put in another normal door and window inside so that when I'm in there I can have natural light with no drafts in the winter or the door / window open in the summer. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2013 Cheers again guys, I have been looking at the cost of a Roller front door this morning and that may be a better bet than a normal door as it will still look like a Garage. I have a roller door at our present House and it takes up such little room inside it could be o.k. If I go for the roller option I might put in another normal door and window inside so that when I'm in there I can have natural light with no drafts in the winter or the door / window open in the summer. Andy Just blag a room in the new house !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2013 But if am not wrong,, you are leaving your house so should you care for these silly things?? Just make sure whom so ever you let your house you tell him the entire things so that it would be a fair deal I think it's the house he's moving to, not from, that has the garage under discussion. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted December 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2013 one option to waterproof and insulate the garage would be to fix kingspan to the outside then render onto the kingspan, this way you do not lose any internal space while getting the benefits of the insulation and been water tight. This method would probably mean your roof would need altering to provide more of a overhang/soffit though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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