DCC Sound on DC

[SDJR7F88]

 I have read in a few posts that basic DDC loco sound functions (i.e. when moving) work on DC. If so does anyone have any footage of this, as I am very interested to see it in action. I know most of the functions like whistles, horn, brakes and guards won't work, but as for the basic movement sounds I hear that it works.

 So if anyone can shed a light (or a video) on this I would be very grateful.

 Many thanks

                   Callum

 

 

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

This has been discussed before. The general consensus is that fitting a sound decoder at great expense and then not getting more than about 20% of the effect is a waste of money and resource for both you and the sound decoder industry. In essence you will never get what you paid for so why bother?

 

History is littered with DC sound efforts. None have survived the implementation of DCC.

 

It is admitted that both DCC and sound decoders represent a financial cost that can seem prohibitive but most manufacturers and quite a few modellers believe that the current crop of sound offerings are good enough and there are other ways of saving money to achieve an acceptable result.

[SDJR7F88]

This has been discussed before. The general consensus is that fitting a sound decoder at great expense and then not getting more than about 20% of the effect is a waste of money and resource for both you and the sound decoder industry. In essence you will never get what you paid for so why bother?

 

History is littered with DC sound efforts. None have survived the implementation of DCC.

 

It is admitted that both DCC and sound decoders represent a financial cost that can seem prohibitive but most manufacturers and quite a few modellers believe that the current crop of sound offerings are good enough and there are other ways of saving money to achieve an acceptable result.

Thanks.

So it will work? I'm thinking about getting one of Hornby's new TTS sound model, to run on a small DCC exhibition and my friends DCC layout when I visit, just wanted to if some of the main functions would work on my many layout which is DC. Also just wanted to see if someone had filmed this too, so I could see for myself.

[SDJR7F88]

Anyone got any footage of this?  

[leopardml2341]

Tinterweb's a wonderful thing.

 

Look what I found for you - simple search term 'dcc sound on dc'

 

 

No connection or association with company concerned, just a simple web search.

 

Rgds

[SDJR7F88]

Tinterweb's a wonderful thing.

 

Look what I found for you - simple search term 'dcc sound on dc'

 

 

No connection or association with company concerned, just a simple web search.

 

Rgds

Thanks you ever so much! Just what I was looking for! Found nothing like this in my searches!  

Just hope a DCC sound fitted Bachmann or Hornby loco will function the same way on DC! If so it will be perfect!

Once again many thanks!

  Callum

[leopardml2341]

Thanks you ever so much! Just what I was looking for! Found nothing like this in my searches!  

Just hope a DCC sound fitted Bachmann or Hornby loco will function the same way on DC! If so it will be perfect!

Once again many thanks!

  Callum

 

Don't see why not - Bachmann and Hornby both supply ESU Loksound chips and I suspect the Heljan Class 37 simply has the 'XL' version.

 

Perhaps more importantly might be the compilation of the sound file.

 

Don't forget to 'post back' your experiences.

Rgds,

[leopardml2341]

Separately, and others may be able to confirm or otherwise - you may need to be wary of leaving locos 'idling' for long periods - not sure if any power is fed to motor when operating this way.

 

It may be the case that a small current flows through the motor which could cause heating if the motor isn't actually turning.

 

I can't confirm, because all my DCC fitted locos are only operated on DCC.

[SDJR7F88]

Separately, and others may be able to confirm or otherwise - you may need to be wary of leaving locos 'idling' for long periods - not sure if any power is fed to motor when operating this way.

 

It may be the case that a small current flows through the motor which could cause heating if the motor isn't actually turning.

 

I can't confirm, because all my DCC fitted locos are only operated on DCC.

I'm sure they will be fine. Idle some of my engines when filming YouTube videos, so I don't get the click of the controller in!  Of course I will post the results from my sound test on hear, when I get the loco that is. It will just be one of Hornby's new basic sound models, the Network Rail 37 is top on the list!  

[sdw7300]

Hi There. The Hornby TTS sound system is a brand new sound setup. There are no loco's available yet with TTS & details are fairly sparce. Hornby say it will add about £25 to the cost of a loco rather than the £100+ all current sound offerings cost. This would suggest the fuctionality of TTS will be reduced compared to "full sound" but until the first loco's become available, this is just guess work.

 

I'm quite excited about TTS. The current sound offerings are too expensive for me to justify but I've already ordered 97301 (Network Rail 37) with TTS!

 

When it arrives i'll let you know how i get on. Lets hope the 2014 releases don't take as long as the 2013 releases!

 

Cheers

[SDJR7F88]

Hi There. The Hornby TTS sound system is a brand new sound setup. There are no loco's available yet with TTS & details are fairly sparce. Hornby say it will add about £25 to the cost of a loco rather than the £100+ all current sound offerings cost. This would suggest the fuctionality of TTS will be reduced compared to "full sound" but until the first loco's become available, this is just guess work.

 

I'm quite excited about TTS. The current sound offerings are too expensive for me to justify but I've already ordered 97301 (Network Rail 37) with TTS!

 

When it arrives i'll let you know how i get on. Lets hope the 2014 releases don't take as long as the 2013 releases!

 

Cheers

I will be putting 97301 on order very soon too! Even if the sound function are limited, it is still a smart look and model, plus I will be able to get all the function out of her on my friends DCC layout of the West Somerset Railway!  I hope she is not to long in the making too, plus Hornby give her the right nose or change her number, as from my research 97301 has flash ends.

[Guest]

This is something I've been pondering over as well Callum! In theory, it should work! One thing I've been thinking about, is for every quarter of a turn of the driving wheels on a steam loco equals 1 chuff, so for every full rotation of the driving wheels there are 4 chuffs. If there was only a system where it could recognise every quarter turn and make a chuffing sound.........

[SDJR7F88]

This is something I've been pondering over as well Callum! In theory, it should work! One thing I've been thinking about, is for every quarter of a turn of the driving wheels on a steam loco equals 1 chuff, so for every full rotation of the driving wheels there are 4 chuffs. If there was only a system where it could recognise every quarter turn and make a chuffing sound.........

Apparently from what I have learned is that the chuffing sound from a DCC Steam loco or thrash from a DCC diesel, governed by the voltage going though into the loco (the more voltage the faster the sound), so the chuffing sound should work perfect on DCC. This is something I plan to try out!

[pauliebanger]

This is something I've been pondering over as well Callum! In theory, it should work! One thing I've been thinking about, is for every quarter of a turn of the driving wheels on a steam loco equals 1 chuff, so for every full rotation of the driving wheels there are 4 chuffs. If there was only a system where it could recognise every quarter turn and make a chuffing sound.........

 

Firstly, 3 cylinder steam locos have 6 exhaust beats or chuffs for every revolution of the driving wheels, so make sure you know how many the loco you are discussing has/had.

 

Secondly, all sound decoders already have the ability to 'read' the motor revolutions and hence, by arithmetic, the wheel revolutions. How well this is implemented is in part a feature of the decoder brand and in part influenced by the competency of the user to set this up correctly before playing trains.

 

If that's not precise enough, and it usually is when correctly adjusted, good quality sound decoders have the facility to take a physical input from any wheelset. Usually this will be magnets and reed switches, but other triggers are available.

 

So, in any event, your wishes have already been granted. You'd think it was Christmas!!

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

Apparently from what I have learned is that the chuffing sound from a DCC Steam loco or thrash from a DCC diesel, governed by the voltage going though into the loco (the more voltage the faster the sound), so the chuffing sound should work perfect on DCC. This is something I plan to try out!

 

The chuff frequency, but not the length of each chuff, from a steam loco is directly proportional to the driving wheel rotation, so trying to emulate this in a steam sound project would be correct.

 

For diesel-electric, or diesel-hydraulic this would not be correct, as the main engine speed is not proportionately linked to road speed. This is a mistake which many people make, and why in many projects set up in this way, the sounds do not react the same as in a real loco.

 

Fortunately, there are a few people who know how real locos work and also understand how to programme prototypical behaviour into sound decoders. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[SDJR7F88]

The chuff frequency, but not the length of each chuff, from a steam loco is directly proportional to the driving wheel rotation, so trying to emulate this in a steam sound project would be correct.

 

For diesel-electric, or diesel-hydraulic this would not be correct, as the main engine speed is not proportionately linked to road speed. This is a mistake which many people make, and why in many projects set up in this way, the sounds do not react the same as in a real loco.

 

Fortunately, there are a few people who know how real locos work and also understand how to programme prototypical behaviour into sound decoders. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Great to hear steam locos will act correct on DC! So Diesels will not work on DC?  

[pauliebanger]

Great to hear steam locos will act correct on DC! So Diesels will not work on DC?  

 

No, that's not what I said.

 

Both will work on DC, but usually the 'niceties' and 'nuances' cannot be triggered by a system which has only one trick, greater or lesser voltage. How well they work will be the result of several different factors.

 

If a project is set up to operate prototypically on DCC, then it will operate similarly on DC too. It's the 'manually controlled' sounds which will be unavailable to analogue users, and that's only due there being no way to send the control info.

 

Varing the voltage is a way of controlling one thing at a time only (Normally). This is a limitation of DC, not the DCC decoders.

 

This is how it works with ZIMO sound decoders, so you need to develop a rather subtle driving technique. (I presume other will be similar,you will need to check).

 

When the track voltage reaches about 2v, any LEDs programmed to work on DC will illuminate.

 

When track voltage reaches around 5v the sound will start. With a good decoder and sound project this will include the engine starting up.

 

At 6~7v the motor will turn and yourmodel starts to move, more volts and any power ramping sounds will probably play.

 

And so on.

 

When slowing down, the reverse is true. The power sounds will subside gradually to idle. When the volts drop below, say, 6v, the motor will stop but the sound will continue.

 

Whent the voltage drops below 3~4 V the sound will stop. Note, will not be able to play the normal 'engine stopping' sounds, as there is no longer enough power for the amplifier. Also note that the threshold volts for sounds are lower on the way down than on start-up.

 

When the volts drop below 2V, any illuminated LEDs will extinguish.

 

So, you will find tere is much more control available than commonly beleved. But I can't help asking the obvious question. Why pay for sound decoders and then not get the full benefit from them?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Lowlander]

Great to hear steam locos will act correct on DC! So Diesels will not work on DC?

Hi

 

We as a club (Ayr mrg) did some you-tube footage of our dc powered layout "Swinlees" about four years ago. If you care to look it up you will hear/see what is available. It was a means to an end at the time and very limited, as most members on here will correctly tell you. Someof our members couldn't/wouldn't entertain Dcc at the time. This has changed over time and we have built new Dcc layouts and hardly anybody uses the dc powered Swinlees now, hence the lack of updates. In fact it's up for sale now to allow us the space for a new Dcc layout.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Stephen

Edited December 26, 2013 by ayrmrg

[SDJR7F88]

No, that's not what I said.

 

Both will work on DC, but usually the 'niceties' and 'nuances' cannot be triggered by a system which has only one trick, greater or lesser voltage. How well they work will be the result of several different factors.

 

If a project is set up to operate prototypically on DCC, then it will operate similarly on DC too. It's the 'manually controlled' sounds which will be unavailable to analogue users, and that's only due there being no way to send the control info.

 

Varing the voltage is a way of controlling one thing at a time only (Normally). This is a limitation of DC, not the DCC decoders.

 

This is how it works with ZIMO sound decoders, so you need to develop a rather subtle driving technique. (I presume other will be similar,you will need to check).

 

When the track voltage reaches about 2v, any LEDs programmed to work on DC will illuminate.

 

When track voltage reaches around 5v the sound will start. With a good decoder and sound project this will include the engine starting up.

 

At 6~7v the motor will turn and yourmodel starts to move, more volts and any power ramping sounds will probably play.

 

And so on.

 

When slowing down, the reverse is true. The power sounds will subside gradually to idle. When the volts drop below, say, 6v, the motor will stop but the sound will continue.

 

Whent the voltage drops below 3~4 V the sound will stop. Note, will not be able to play the normal 'engine stopping' sounds, as there is no longer enough power for the amplifier. Also note that the threshold volts for sounds are lower on the way down than on start-up.

 

When the volts drop below 2V, any illuminated LEDs will extinguish.

 

So, you will find tere is much more control available than commonly beleved. But I can't help asking the obvious question. Why pay for sound decoders and then not get the full benefit from them?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Thank you ever so much for the information Paul! Very helpful! Sorry if I miss understood the last post. I do have a DCC controller, plus one of my friends has a DCC layout, which I would love to run some of my stock on when visiting. Plus With some of Hornby new TTS sound range being only a few pounds more than the standard model, it is worth a go.  

[SDJR7F88]

Hi

 

We as a club (Ayr mrg) did some you-tube footage of our dc powered layout "Swinlees" about four years ago. If you care to look it up you will hear/see what is available. It was a means to an end at the time and very limited, as most members on here will correctly tell you. Someof our members couldn't/wouldn't entertain Dcc at the time. This has changed over time and we have built new Dcc layouts and hardly anybody uses the dc powered Swinlees now, hence the lack of updates. In fact it's up for sale now to allow us the space for a new Dcc layout.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Stephen

Super new if you have a video! Would you be able to post a link for me and other on here? If you could?  

[Lowlander]

Hi Again.

 

If you type in Swinlees on theYou tube search facility you should get all the footage you need.

 

Stephen

[SDJR7F88]

Hi Again.

 

If you type in Swinlees on theYou tube search facility you should get all the footage you need.

 

Stephen

Thanks again! But there are many videos, which one does it feature in?

[Lowlander]

Thanks again! But there are many videos, which one does it feature in?

Hi

 

Look up the ones by Mus 256f and zander.

 

Maybe better sending me a pm from now on, as it is taking up a lot of space on the topic.

 

Stephen

[SDJR7F88]

Hi

 

Look up the ones by Mus 256f and zander.

 

Maybe better sending me a pm from now on, as it is taking up a lot of space on the topic.

 

Stephen

Thanks again Stephen will give it a look. If you post a link that would be handy. Sadly I don't know so start PM's on here!  

[SDJR7F88]

Hi

 

Look up the ones by Mus 256f and zander.

 

Maybe better sending me a pm from now on, as it is taking up a lot of space on the topic.

 

Stephen

This it?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53z9CDxj0xA