RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2014 I need to find a sectional appendix that mentions Banking from Huskisson, Im not sure where the bankers were dropped off. I think they had the condenser fitted jinties for this purpose because of the steep incline in the 3 tunnels but ive never seen anything official to confirm this. Hi Michael Would these have been Johnson Class 3 Tanks because I am not sure that standard LMS 3Fs had condensers? If so I did not realise the MR 3Fs with condensers were sheded anywhere outside of London. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 yeah they are the Johnson ones, Walton had several including one that didnt have condensors, I think they moved up to Walton in the early 60s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I had to check, 4 altogether starting from 1957. http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=77&type=S&page=alloc Its something I need to look into more so I can build a model of one, I think it will be 47228 as I have 2 shots, one black and white, one colour of it on shed. havent decided what route to go down to model one, maybe a K's body if I can find one. some more info including which had condensors and which that did not. http://www.railuk.info/steam/getsteamclass.php?item=3F-E 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward66 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 For some inexplicable reason one of the Johnson condenser 3F tanks arrived in Lancaster about 1951 or 52 from one of the London sheds [14A or 14B I think]. Pretty soon its condenser equipment was removed and it remained at Lancaster for some years latterly as shed pilot. I was interested to see it appears on the shed basher's list at 27E in 1957. It remained in service into the sixties and was the last of those locos. to survive. Edward 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ive got a feeling that they wernt specifically requested at Walton for being condensing locos, more to do with a small shed getting some one elses cast offs Id think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Little bit more research. Mike Edge remembers the turntable still in place but out of use in the 1960s. Im not holding out finding a photo of it, Im unsure of what style and size it was, Im guessing that another reason for not repairing it in 1958 was that it wasnt large enough for locos such as 9fs and with having the triangle it wasnt worth it. The CLC shed at Heaton Mersey Stockport had its turntable replaced with a larger one from Manchester central around 1958 so Im guessing that Walton had the same size , both sheds being used to midland and GCR 0-6-0 tender locos.Im guessing the one at Heaton Mersey before it was replaced would be the same style as the Walton one? Mike Turner has told me he has found original drawings of the shed building so looking forward to seeing what he comes up with, usually digs out some great treasures. an incidental detail which isnt worth worrying about at this stage but I was looking at the water columns and dont recall seeing that style anywhere else, does anyone recognise them? some were replaced with the ones that peco do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ive just aquired a Hornby B1 to run on the layout, been after one of those for a while now. at the same time Im parting with some locos that would never have ran anywhere near. The only coaching stock will be an empty grand national special with one or 2 metro cammell pullman cars and devon belle observation car,id like one in crimson and cream livery, it will run in then reverse back out to represent it turning on the triangle, hauled by a 4f. im not sure which way it went round the triangle. As it was a sub shed of Bank hall Im pretty sure some bank hall locos could be present. Huskisson goods yard used Bank hall pugs to shunt the yard so I think I may run a pug up to get some coal, not sure if this ever happened but as I have a pug I think that could be a good excuse. Kitson 47002 which I have a model of would work in Sandon goods yard, accessed from Huskisson,unlike the pugs It never ran on the dock road because it never had a bell fitted so Im guessing it would have ran light past Walton on the hill shed to Huskisson and Sandon as that is the only route it could go. Mike 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Dave Rogers whos dad took the colour shots I posted on the first page has been in touch, he is excited by the prospect of the model. his dad took more shots of the area including the tunnel path under the railway to the park, I was really happy to see this. http://www.briangriffiths.co.uk/gallery3/index.php/Liverpool/Walton/Walton_park_tunnel he has also emailed me several other shots of the tunnel, one during its demolition and also a shot of the shops next to the bank on Rice lane which will be on the layout but Id never seen a shot of until now so Im overjoyed with the gaps that have been filled in. He says he has more shots and info so I am going to meet with him next week as he only lives nearby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Great Mike! It's really coming together now! Don't forget if you want any goods stock on loan you need only ask-I have several boxes of 'second division' wagons here! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Michael, the turntable dia at Walton Loco was 50' according to the Cheshire Lines working appendix for 1935 (a friend has a battered copy). Only mention of "Engines assisting at the rear of trains" is a one page table, States the following (from) Huskisson (to) Fazakerley West (up line) Drivers of trains requiring bank engine must be careful to so regulate the speed of train when leaving Huskisson as to permit of assisting engine closing up to guards van before latter reaches tunnel at exit from station yard. Quick look through saw very little else re this line, or Walton loco in the book. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) That is really useful thank you to you and your friend. so now we know the size we just need to find the make of the turntable and can go from there, this company makes some nice kits... http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/4mm_scale_00_EM_P4.htm#Turntables Regards banking, if the banker dropped off at the home signal protecting the goods yard at Fazakerley west which will be on the layout, just above the park subway tunnel I can drop the banker off there with DCC in front of Steve Hewitt's working bracket signal. Wish my old driver mate was still here, he would have known all this. The engine shed society Magazine "Link" summer 1997 had an article on the shed which is one ive yet to get hold of. Edited January 5, 2014 by Michael Delamar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 You're right there Mike! Jimmy would have given you chapter and verse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Might be a bit of help here, Michael For Xmas the kids bought me Dennis Sweeneys excellent book "The Wigan Junction Railways", which was the GC / LNER Wigan branch, joining the Cheshire lines at Glazebrook. On page 100 there is a good photo across the 50' turntable at Wigan Goods. The table is disused, no track or decking but the bridge girders, centre pivot, pit and traversing wheels are all shown. It is probable that a fair model could be made using this photo. I have checked with my copy of the 1947 LNER General Appendix, and this turntable is also listed as 50' dia. So possibly it was similar / same as the one at Walton. I intend (one day !!) to make a model of Wigan Goods, possibly with Wigan Central station & Lower Ince loco shed. Not a complex area, but a long drawn out affair, well over a mile long, mostly on bridges, so perhaps a little too much, might compress it, or just make a smallish working diorama. I'm a member of the Great Central railway society, and have most of their "Forward" magazines, so I'll have a butchers through them, and if I find anything of interest to you re Walton shed area I'll let you know. Brit15 Edited January 5, 2014 by APOLLO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) that'll be great, im searching other CLC sheds too, Heaton Mersey has been top of my list to find a shot of its original turntable. Can just make out the faint outline of the turntable in this shot, arrowed red,the parapet of the subway tunnel arrowed yellow and buffer stop protecting the dissused turntable (blue) as this Fairburn tank waits to be let onto the shed. this part wont be on the layout it will be the fiddle yard, it was taken from Fazakerley west signal box. also recently got this nice shot from colour rail of a 04/3 63895 on shed in 1961. http://colour-rail.com/Preview.aspx?ImgRef=3084 Edited January 5, 2014 by Michael Delamar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I met with Dave and his dad and he has given me over 100 shots of the shed and area! he has asked that they dont appear on the internet. lots of shots of the area and streets surrounding, shots of inside the shed with detail shots of the roof, shots of it being pulled down by a bulldozer with a chain attached to the centre supports. shots of the shed in steam days including one which gives a good view of the later trackplan and what appear to be showers above the ash pit road. he doesnt remember the turntable or have any shots, neither does another friend who has been in touch who used to visit regularly. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 So am I drawing the turntable in now? That is really useful thank you to you and your friend. so now we know the size we just need to find the make of the turntable and can go from there, this company makes some nice kits... http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/4mm_scale_00_EM_P4.htm#Turntables Regards banking, if the banker dropped off at the home signal protecting the goods yard at Fazakerley west which will be on the layout, just above the park subway tunnel I can drop the banker off there with DCC in front of Steve Hewitt's working bracket signal. Wish my old driver mate was still here, he would have known all this. The engine shed society Magazine "Link" summer 1997 had an article on the shed which is one ive yet to get hold of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 As it stands at the moment the turntable wont be on the layout, just a pit, All our club members cannot remember it, they all said their main reason to visit the shed would be to see the (ex) LNER engines. Ian has sent me the plan and so now I need to print it off and sit down with Chris Hewitt with it and plan the track and baseboards, see how it all fits etc, then he can make a start on the trackwork, he is struggling to find ply sleeper strips at the moment but is sure he has a few bundles somewhere. Still nothing to show at the moment but it is all go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Mike Thats a pit(y) about the pit!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 quick update, I have been given permission to build the layout at the clubrooms although it cannot be set up in full until after our show in April when we will reorganise the ayouts in the clubroom, which isnt a problem I can set some up. Baseboard construction will be at the clubrooms but layout construction will be splt between there and at home, I am building the boards so that they can fit through the loft door and so I can work on the layout at home as it would take a long time if it was just worked on at the club. so I am in the process of aquiring baseboard supplies, today I have ordered all the large pattern makers baseboard dowels. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 First parts arrive 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2014 How many baseboards Mike? Seems an awful lot of dowels... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thats because the front scenic is going to be 2 boards width, they will only be 22inches wide x 4ft. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 I didnt actually answer your question, 20 boards,when assembled 24ft x 8ft, continious run, although the sizes are still on the beer mat drawing board so not set in stone just yet. the 6 boards that contain the coal yard/goods yard on the front of the layout which is only 3 sidings wont be very wide. Im debating on using clips rather than coach bolts and wing nuts although that can only be on the fiddle yard as I cant use them on the doubled up scenic boards. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Michael, have you seen the book "Heaton Mersey motive power depot" by Michael J Stokes, Foxline Scenes from the past No 39. Superb book for CLC fans. There are a few pictures showing a little of the original 50' turntable, not all of it though on any picture. Page 1 shows a little of it in 1937, just some of the pit. with a couple of J10's. Page 8 has a small photo of it behind a J10 (no date), Page 15 has a view of the new 70' table, and a small photo below of the old 50' table being dismantled in 1960. Just shows the pit and a part dismantled centre section with a fireman's shovel leaning against it, handy for measurements. The caption states "The old fifty foot turntable lay derelict until September 1960, when it was dismantled and the void filled in. The builder's plate is claimed to read" Cowans Sheldon and Co. No 1644 - 1898 Carlisle" If the date is correct, this table must have replaced an earlier one as there was known to be a table in place by the early 1890's" Hope this is of help. Brit15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Ive not seen that one, I think there is a few foxline books in the Stockport area an ive wanted to get them for a while now just havent got round to it. ill be looking out for that one, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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