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I have been hoping to find a photo of a Clayton banking on Shap for as many years as I can remember - just out of interest. 

 

I have tried registering with the WNXX forum, but it needs a confirmation email. Having provided a valid email address, I never received their email for me to reply to; so maybe the image will elude me even now? 

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I have been hoping to find a photo of a Clayton banking on Shap for as many years as I can remember - just out of interest. 

 

I have tried registering with the WNXX forum, but it needs a confirmation email. Having provided a valid email address, I never received their email for me to reply to; so maybe the image will elude me even now? 

Have you checked your spam folder?

 

I find that increasing numbers of Kosher e-mails (particularly first ones) are ending up there.

 

Regards

 

Ian

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Trevor,

Hello!

In response to your queries posted on the 18.10:-

Just an hour after you asked the question on here Ken Barnes posted two photographs of a Clayton diesel banking a diesel hauled train at Scout Green on the 'WNXX Forum' web site - have alook in the 'Question and Answer' part of that forum - the last post on the bottom of page 1. This topic has been discussed at length by some members of the Cumbian Railways Association chatline recently with no conclusive proof until now that it actually happened!

I am a member of the group and colleagues are planning an article for our Journal to commemerate 50 years since the end of mainline steam - without previewing the contents of the article too much I can tell you that one of the main contributors, Ken Harper, worked in one of the Penrith signal boxes in 1968 and has records of 10 occasions that steam locomotives were seen at work when he was on shift during 1968! - That total excludes no.70013 working 'light engine' south from Carlisle on the 09.01.1968 - (to it's new home at Carnforth?) and no.4498 working north 'light engine' on 31.07.1968 (to it's new home in the north east?) Excluding the sighting of no.4498 Ken's last sighting of a steam locomotive working past Penrith was no.45231 working a ballast train on 17.06.1968 - all his other notes are for before the end of March. (Ken's records are only from when he was at work so it is likely that there were more occasions).

Thankyou for posting your pictures and memories of the end of steam working in the north east - they were most interesting and very enjoyable - as were the 'Brownie 127' pictures - what an excellent shot of no. 46244!

I am guessing that it is your article in David Hey's marvellous railway website detailing your trips to Carlisle and on the west coast main line over Shap and on to Lancaster during summer 1967 when you were photographing and travelling on the last regular steam hauled passenger trains over the route; thanks for the excellent description of that last summer and the great pictures too.

Best Regards  Tony

 

Hello Tony,

Many thanks for your detailed reply to my question about steam over Shap in 1968. Thanks goodness we have people like Ken Harper who were enthusiasts as well as railwaymen!

I was planning to start a thread along the lines of '50 years since the end of steam over Shap'. Technically, of course, next year is the anniversary - but how many photos would we get taken in 1968? I don't suppose many photographers would stand out all day in a field at Shap Wells on the off chance of seeing an 8F (say) with a ballast rain, or whatever.

On the other hand, 1967 was a) the last year of steam passenger workings over Shap, b) the last year (presumably) of through steam workings of any kind to/from Carlisle and c) definitely the final full year of steam over Shap.

So, with the proviso of sporadic steam workings from Carnforth in 1968 I think we could make a case for 1967 as being the 'right' 50th anniversary - do you agree? 

 

I tried to look on the WNXX site as you suggested, but as others have pointed out, it looks like I need to register first. Unless I am trying to enter from the wrong page to start with?

Many thanks for your kind comments about my photos here and elsewhere - yes, that is me on the David Hey site.

 

Very best wishes

Trevor

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Regarding Clayton diesels banking over Shap, when I visited Tebay shed on 30th December 1967, right at the end of steam, there were three of them there: D8501, D8510 and D8520 and I wrote 'new bankers' in my notebook against their numbers. Also 75026 was in steam awaiting its next job up the bank. That was my last visit to the area and I never saw the diesels in action. Photographs must be rarer than hens' teeth!

 

Trevor

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  • 3 months later...

Last day of Steam at Wigan Springs Branch, around Nov 1967 (Don't know exact date, perhaps someone will know). Dad took the photo, on a Sunday for the local Wigan Observer newspaper. Sorry, no names known, though The Boss is easily recognised !!

 

attachicon.gifSPRINGS BRANCH MPD LAST DAY OF STEAM 1967 001 (800x617).jpg

 

This is a young Apollo aged 15.  The only time I "did the branch" with permission !!

 

attachicon.gifSPRINGS BRANCH MPD LAST DAY OF STEAM 1967 (626x800).jpg

 

Now I can't help very much with last dates steam hauled / traversed X-Y or A-B, but I have quite a few photos that I will add to my photo link (below). Thought the above would be of interest. My brother worked on the Railway at this time (S&T then Civil Engineering dept at Liverpool), and we both had quite a few trips seeking steam hauled trains back then. I have the logs of those runs, though by no means are they very comprehensive, just the loco that hauled us from A-B on that day. The locos were run down back then, I remember a trip to Leeds back on 27/12/1966 (exactly 47 years ago today MY GOD :O ). DMU's to Leeds, and black 5 44824 Leeds- Manchester on a holiday relief, steam leaking everywhere, coach lighting & heating not working, left Leeds on time & over 40 mins late into Manchester. - Happy times !!!

 

Here is the leaky old girl.

 

attachicon.gif2013-01-10-20-57-32 (800x533).jpg

 

Brit15

It looks like someones memory is fading perhaps. 48665 is unlikely to be at Springs Branch as, in the photo, there are lights suspended above the rails. The only place at SB that had this was the four tracks in open space and by this time the Diesel Depot had been built there anyway. Also the track didnt curve at all. I suspect it could be Edge Hill maybe? BTW, love those photos Apollo, we must have walked the same paths many times as I literally lived at Whitley Crossing 1959 to 1968. Where where you when I was doing the Springs Branch book?

 

Did you know me and was your dad Mr Hall? 

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It looks like someones memory is fading perhaps. 48665 is unlikely to be at Springs Branch as, in the photo, there are lights suspended above the rails. The only place at SB that had this was the four tracks in open space and by this time the Diesel Depot had been built there anyway. Also the track didnt curve at all. I suspect it could be Edge Hill maybe? BTW, love those photos Apollo, we must have walked the same paths many times as I literally lived at Whitley Crossing 1959 to 1968. Where where you when I was doing the Springs Branch book?

 

Did you know me and was your dad Mr Hall? 

 

No I can't remember you Chris, yes my father was Arnold Hall press photographer for the Wigan Observer, and yes 48665 was definitely at Springs Branch. I was there that day. Photo taken on the lines at the side of the shed, the New Springs branch side, (opposite side to the new diesel depot) as this photo (off google images) shows, note the overhead lights.

 

00-0-a-d-salmon-g-burch-45395-wigan.jpg

 

Edited to add - Chris if you look at the photograph on page 164 / 5 of your excellent Springs Branch book you can again see the same suspended lights in several photographs.

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
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Oh the shame!!!!!!

 

You are of course absolutely right. I did check loads of photos and couldn't see those suspended lights so decided it couldn't be. Must admit I don't recall them and I think that aspect led me to that decision.

I also have excellent records of locos on shed, particularly around that time and 48665 didn't feature which suggested it might be elsewhere.

I of all people should have known better...slaps ones own bottom!!!

 

Anyway, it's always great to see photos of my old shed. Spent half my life there.

When I read your post I wondered if you were Chris Winstanley but obviously not. I was one of the crossing mob from 1959 through to the end. My crowd were Carl Littler (your dad photographed him at Whitley for the paper with me on it too and he got a camera for him) also Harold Turner, Walter Cullen, Gordon Jennings, Clifford McKenna. Others around were Malcolm Capstick, John Loftman, Gerald Robson, Carl Peters, Cyril Pearce and later Dick Long...do you recall any of these. There was also someone called Greenlees and a Mr Bolton as well.

 

I'm currently putting together the last book in the Wigan Engine Shed trilogy (Lower Ince) but we will include a last look back at Springs Branch and Wigan L&Y...got any pictures you fancy publishing?

 

Finally, I am the project leader for the West Coast Sightings Sheets, a research study that lists all known locos (on the trains they actually worked) on the West Coast route through Wigan 1956 to 1968. The reports we have produced are far better than we thought we could ever do, and they are still being enhanced.

 

Did you keep those spotting books??? No need for there to be any detail as just a list of numbers is extremely useful to us as we already have the notes of over 750 spotters but we still have gaps and the more notes the better the reports get. 

Can you help??

 

Chris

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Hi Chris - no problem, I had little doubt as I scanned the photos from my dad's originals. I never spotted at Whitley Crossing, though I visited with my dad a couple of times on his Lambreta scooter !!. Dad liked to photograph here and one of his photos was half page in the Wigan Observer back in 1967, a mucky Black 8 slogging up brew, steam leaking everywhere. I'll dig out the photo and post it. I vaugeley remember a lad in a wheelchair was there, and later came to our house once to watch my brothers railway movies. I don't recall any others mentioned. A long time ago now !!.

 

Living back then at Poolstock my spotting was the stretch of the WCML between the Leeds and Liverpool Canal, Westwood Lane, Cemetery Lane (the sloping wall of which can be seen in the far left of the above photo), and, best of the lot, Taylors Lane bridge, at the Springs Branch shed outlet.

 

I have both your books, they are superb. I knew one or two of the characters mentioned, Johnny Bretherton who went down Poolstock Lane at over 60mph on his motorbike - we always knew when he was going to / from the branch !! Jimmy Lincoln who was involved in the Accident is still knocking around - he is my mates cousins husband. I also knew Frank Eaton. an old Springs Branch driver long gone, a real nice man, and one or two others who's names escape me.

 

I'll try to dig out my old spotting books - there somewhere !!! I'll be pleased to help if I can. I'll stick anything I find of interest on this thread.

 

I am looking forward to your next books, especially the Lower Ince one, and will help if I can. All my photos / negs are on my Flikr site below. You can use them if you wish, just acknowledge me or my dad. They are not captioned but I can probably add info to most. Just ask or PM me on here.

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again

Sorry about the delay...due to working too hard on volume 3!!

I've looked at the flikr pictures and there's some superb shots there and I'm quite interested in about 6 of them for consideration for volume 3.. Various places, Rylands, Wigan Central Goods, Golborne Super D, St Helens railtour, etc.

Will discuss when we hopefully meet up regarding your notebooks. 

Re Springs Branch and Whitley Crossing. You presumably know I was the lad with Carl (wheelchair). We also had a John Bretherton who came to Whitley crossing...could this be the same guy? I cant actually remember him now, just the name.

It seems you started spotting trips around 1966 which is a couple of years later than me although I had been spotting since 1958 and, living close to Whitley, I had most of the local and main line stuff long before 1964. Just a few escaped me including two Patriots and 46113 which ironically worked to Southport when it was shedded at Low Moor, totally unknown to me at the time....sods law. I also missed about 20 Jubilees but they were mainly Scottish, Bristol or Midlands lines. At least in the diesel days I didnt let much slip. D1671 and D6983 went before I got them and perhaps a class 33 too but I think I managed to bag virtually all the rest.

Incidentally, I presume you are Mr Hall but a first name would be nice to know?

Look forward to hearing from you and looking at those notebooks. Appreciate your offer of help...many thanks.......................Chris

Hi Chris - no problem, I had little doubt as I scanned the photos from my dad's originals. I never spotted at Whitley Crossing, though I visited with my dad a couple of times on his Lambreta scooter !!. Dad liked to photograph here and one of his photos was half page in the Wigan Observer back in 1967, a mucky Black 8 slogging up brew, steam leaking everywhere. I'll dig out the photo and post it. I vaugeley remember a lad in a wheelchair was there, and later came to our house once to watch my brothers railway movies. I don't recall any others mentioned. A long time ago now !!.

 

Living back then at Poolstock my spotting was the stretch of the WCML between the Leeds and Liverpool Canal, Westwood Lane, Cemetery Lane (the sloping wall of which can be seen in the far left of the above photo), and, best of the lot, Taylors Lane bridge, at the Springs Branch shed outlet.

 

I have both your books, they are superb. I knew one or two of the characters mentioned, Johnny Bretherton who went down Poolstock Lane at over 60mph on his motorbike - we always knew when he was going to / from the branch !! Jimmy Lincoln who was involved in the Accident is still knocking around - he is my mates cousins husband. I also knew Frank Eaton. an old Springs Branch driver long gone, a real nice man, and one or two others who's names escape me.

 

I'll try to dig out my old spotting books - there somewhere !!! I'll be pleased to help if I can. I'll stick anything I find of interest on this thread.

 

I am looking forward to your next books, especially the Lower Ince one, and will help if I can. All my photos / negs are on my Flikr site below. You can use them if you wish, just acknowledge me or my dad. They are not captioned but I can probably add info to most. Just ask or PM me on here.

 

Brit15

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 months later...

I still can't find out what were the last steam workings along the Erwash Valley, it seems to be a question nobody knows the answer to.
I reckon the end of 1966 but possibly into the early weeks of 1967.
Does anyone know for sure? I know 70013 worked through on a special in June 1968 but I bet no steam had passed along for at least a year by that point.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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