John_Hughes Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It does all look pretty messy on the ground, but I'd agree that it's mostly superficial, though there will be additional speed limits for quite a while I think. I'm surprised the 'deviation' line between Penhelig and Dovey Junction got off as lightly as it seems to have done. The Aber line had already been raised in a number of places and that has probably helped to ease the situation there. As far as closing lines that need a subsidy, I think it's a great idea. Let's start with the London suburban network and the Tubes, shall we? They're all nicely duplicated by handy bus services, after all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2014 By the way, far from being a withered arm the train from Aberystwyth which arrives Newtown at 10.46 is reckoned to be the busiest on Arriva Trains Wales - six cars and often pretty full, and a fair amount of this originates on the coast line. Central Wales and Blaenau may have four trains a day but this line has eight to Aber (fewer on the coast) with proposals for an hourly service (infrastructure work already done). My midday Monday trip from New Street to Porthmadog at the end of September supports your view. Plenty of people travelling to both branches, schoolkids joining at Barmouth (I think) and a generally healthy feel, with good service from the conductors, too. Sparse service does not mean no demand. Add to that the "political" issue of a line in Wales, and closure is unthinkable these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunningduck Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/37122/ The full story is behind a paywall unfortunately. Well if thats true, then the 2 people (I'm presuming guard and driver?) deserve some accolades for some proactive work in a fairly crap situation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted January 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm a fairly regular user of the Cambrian lines, mainly east out of Mach to Shrewsbury but I do have regular jaunts up and down the coast (Port and Aber) and it seems to have a healthy number of passengers though there are seasonal variations particularly the coastal stretches. I'm not sure if these days the political angle would be unique to Wales. I know that Thatcher was famously anti-rail, but these days there seems to be cross party consensus that the railway is an important part of our national infrastructure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I haven't seen it mentioned here, but another Welsh railway sea-wall was badly damaged; the one between Llanelly and Burry Port on the main line from Swansea to Carmarthen and beyond. One line was washed out, the other is passable at very reduced speeds, so there are bus replacement services between Llanelli and Burry Port & Pembrey until the middle of next week at least. No mention of the oil trains to and from Waterton; are they sourcing them elsewhere, or using the remaining track? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Man.... I will have to get down there to take some photos... pretty bad damage, may see some good network rail machinery on that line now while they correct all the damage. JAMIE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Is it realy worth reparing, there is no real service on this line. The same goes for the Blaenau Ffestiniog line a town served by an hourly bus service or four trains a day, that's if it hasn't rained and the lines closed. The Central Wales is also a prime example of this compete waste of money with four trains a day if your lucky. All prime candidates for closure if you ask me. I thing closing the lines you mention would be a great idea, until the roads are impassable through bad weather, or become lines of traffic in summer! The lines are not in place for anyone's fun, or profit - THEY ARE ESSENTIAL LIFELINES, without them that part of Wales would become a wilderness. I haven't seen it mentioned here, but another Welsh railway sea-wall was badly damaged; the one between Llanelly and Burry Port on the main line from Swansea to Carmarthen and beyond. One line was washed out, the other is passable at very reduced speeds, so there are bus replacement services between Llanelli and Burry Port & Pembrey until the middle of next week at least. No mention of the oil trains to and from Waterton; are they sourcing them elsewhere, or using the remaining track? I've heard about the replacement buses for this one on the news, and I would think that it will make more financial sense to cancel the passenger paths, and give all the available paths to the oil trains and infrastructure works. On the up side, with the Cambrian Coast needing some work, would it be practical to use the time to up-engineer the line for longer / heavier trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I would have thought there was no great demand for longer/heavier trains - IIRC loco can still use the route and there is no obvious need for freight. What would be beneficial if possible would be to see whether there is any strengthening that could be built in while repairing the storm-damaged sections, to increase their resilience against similar storms in future (which I've a feeling will become much more common). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Closing passenger railway lines is hopefully a thing of the past. I think even the dimwits in DaFT and parliament can see how ill thought out the rail closures of the past were; it has only taken them about 40 years to come to this conclusion! No more going round in ever decreasing Serpells! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Lambton58 Posted January 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2014 I heard locally (Newtown) that there is damage at Borth, Tywyn and Barmouth and several months were being suggested for reinstatement. By the way, far from being a withered arm the train from Aberystwyth which arrives Newtown at 10.46 is reckoned to be the busiest on Arriva Trains Wales - six cars and often pretty full, and a fair amount of this originates on the coast line. Central Wales and Blaenau may have four trains a day but this line has eight to Aber (fewer on the coast) with proposals for an hourly service (infrastructure work already done). My eldest son is at Aberystwyth University and can vouch for the fact some of the trains to and from Aberystwyth get very crowded! From Dyfi junction round to past Borth the line hugs the Dyfi Estuary and Borth Bog ( a fantastic wildlife site btw) and is very low lying so susceptible to flooding at the best of times. This time, I believe a lot of lower Borth was flooded. I haven't seen any photo's yet but will hopefully find out a bit more from a friend here who's son lives in Borth. Ralph Lambton58 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi all Can anyone report any network rail special coaches / wagons perhaps cranes etc. on the scene to put things right yet.... I would be interested in what there is to see with regards to the expecting of infrastructure vehicles by network Rail or private tender to re-lay the who track. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi all Can anyone report any network rail special coaches / wagons perhaps cranes etc. on the scene to put things right yet.... I would be interested in what there is to see with regards to the expecting of infrastructure vehicles by network Rail or private tender to re-lay the who track. Jamie In this day and age I expect all the plant to be road based other than final deliveries of new ballast, rails etc. Of course thanks to the ERTMS signalling system all infrastructure trains (and any tamper machine drags) will have to be handled by NRs small pool of class 37s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 In this day and age I expect all the plant to be road based other than final deliveries of new ballast, rails etc. Of course thanks to the ERTMS signalling system all infrastructure trains (and any tamper machine drags) will have to be handled by NRs small pool of class 37s. In years gone by without revenue traffic running proper railwaymen would hand the line over to the engineers and just leave them to get on with it. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 There's a rumour in Barmouth that the 158, which nearly ended up down the washout at Tonfanau featured in the video, is going to be moved from Barmouth, where it has become trapped, by road back to the rest of the network. This, if true, must indicate the line is going to be out of action for some while, as the cost and inconvenience of trucking from Barmouth along some of our worst narrow roads compared to being a unit down for several weeks must be worth Arriva's while. Getting two 158 carriages on low loaders back to Mach will be a nightmare, the road from Barmouth to Dolgellau is very narrow coming out of Barmouth, and again near Bontddu, then if they go via Corris they will have to navigate the Dyfi Bridge to get into Machynlleth. I would imagine it would be a night move to avoid daytime traffic gridlock. Not sure if the rumour is correct, it would be interesting to know if it is true as I'd like to go over to take a few photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2014 Interesting rumour; if they are to be moved it may not be Mach that they end up at, the bend at the Dyfi bridge may be too sharp for a long load. Though none of the routes is particularly easy Bangor or Wrexham may be a more practical destination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 No rumour - they moved this morning on steerable low loaders involving going the wrong way up the one way system. Unfortunately I missed it! No idea where they have gone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 According to the GHA coaches Facebook page (!) their X94 service is possibly subject to delay due to the movement of the unit which they have been told is going to Chester (presumably via Bala, hence the delays to their Wrexham to Barmouth service), which would make some sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Is it realy worth reparing, there is no real service on this line. The same goes for the Blaenau Ffestiniog line a town served by an hourly bus service or four trains a day, that's if it hasn't rained and the lines closed. The Central Wales is also a prime example of this compete waste of money with four trains a day if your lucky. All prime candidates for closure if you ask me. Arriva have already ceased to provide certain rural bus services in some rural areas of Mid & West Wales Most of said destinations once had a train service - untill Beeching, of course Locals have been furious - no trains, no buses - no public transport whatsoever!! I live in a city, close to local train & bus services - which I use whenever possible I also own a car - but I can appreciate that not everyone is in a similar situation what about the elderly, the disabled, or those for other reasons who cannot drive, or those not fortunate enough to be able to afford to do so? Honestly, Some people just can't see beyond the end of their own noses! One good thing the Welsh Assembly Government have done, it to attempt to re-open railway lines Thankfully, some people can see that there are other, far more broad issues than cost alone Just take the toxic slurry tanks leaving Allied Steel & Wire works a number of years back as an example They ceased to run the service on grounds of cost alone.... It was decided to replace the trains with a lorry service Within weeks, there had been a road accident involving the waste! Just a few weeks later, another accident! The result? - It cost more to clear up from 2 accidents, than to run the rail service for a whole year! Go and tell the locals you don't mind their rail service closing.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Is it realy worth reparing, there is no real service on this line. The same goes for the Blaenau Ffestiniog line a town served by an hourly bus service or four trains a day, that's if it hasn't rained and the lines closed. The Central Wales is also a prime example of this compete waste of money with four trains a day if your lucky. All prime candidates for closure if you ask me. Better still why not close all those rural roads that hardly carry any traffic. Then there's the cost of providing schools, doctors and postal services in these areas. Why not just make everyone live in cities and close rural communities down completely? Even better still, since we're no longer very industrial, why not make everyone except farmers live in London. We'd then save all the unnecessary costs of railways, motorways, HS2, policing, education- actually do we really need to educate everyone, that's awfully expensive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 While I wholeheartedly disagree with his post, you almost have to feel sorry for esmor... is 46 Disagrees a record for a single post on RMWeb? Part of me wonders if there was a hint of irony in his words or if they were just designed to provoke a response. Humour gone wrong? I'm not sure... The last thing this country needs are any more deliberate permanent line closures. Temporary ones we have to live with, especially bearing in mind the unusual (I think) weather lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2014 While I wholeheartedly disagree with his post, you almost have to feel sorry for esmor... is 46 Disagrees a record for a single post on RMWeb? There cant be many rmwebbers with that many disagrees in total for all their posts!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 While I wholeheartedly disagree with his post, you almost have to feel sorry for esmor... is 46 Disagrees a record for a single post on RMWeb? Hi All I totally agree with woodenhead Post No.19 the post AFTER esmor....! This guy (esmor aka Post No.18) probably has a car to get where ever he wants to and lives nowhere near places that are more open to natural disasters such as the one on this THREAD, and only thinks of himself, with the me first attitude, stuff the rest of you in life, (don’t need to say more about those types of people as I’m sure you all understand except esmor) There are many elderly people in the local villages and when it comes to transport, which to most of them, is their only means of getting out to visit their own families, which also applies to me when my own family come up to visit me, as I live near the Porthmadog area. This leaves me to wonder; if there will be a short to long term bus route laid on to towns further down the line to places like Porthmadog and Pwllheli. Beeching cuts (also Beeching Axe) Just a great shame the line from Pwllheli to Bangor didn’t remain open as a through line to Pwllheli and on to Aberystwyth and behind…! At least the most of the station not effecter either side of the damage could of still had access to the railway network. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25743400 Photos of the unit recovery today and confirmation it's on its way to Chester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 In years gone by without revenue traffic running proper railwaymen would hand the line over to the engineers and just leave them to get on with it. Phil Is anything different happening now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP99 Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25743400 Photos of the unit recovery today and confirmation it's on its way to Chester Saw them pass Dolgellau this morning on the by-pass which obliterated the old track bed. Unfortunately the nearest I am ever likely to see trains on this part of the Barmouth - Ruabon line now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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