Tim H Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 .. Do you have source for those photos? Would like to reproduce on my blog, but need proper attribution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Looks like the Feb 10 reopening to Barmouth might be off following last night's storms, there was new damage at Tywyn although it doesn't look as bad as last time. The line had been tamped last week so I expect those involved in the repairs are a bit cheesed off today. Pictures of the new washout on the LoveTywyn Facebook page - note you need a Facebook account to see them. https://www.facebook.com/LoveTywyn/posts/414045222074672 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2014 Looks like the Feb 10 reopening to Barmouth might be off following last night's storms, there was new damage at Tywyn although it doesn't look as bad as last time. The line had been tamped last week so I expect those involved in the repairs are a bit cheesed off today. Look like they should rethink the type of repairs and do something more substantial that will be more resistant to such weather conditions, especially if these weather events are to become more frequent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I may be completely wrong here but isn't it Network Rail's responsibility to keep the trains running, and local government's responsibility to keep the sea away as best they can? A concerted joint effort would seem to be called for... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Look like they should rethink the type of repairs and do something more substantial that will be more resistant to such weather conditions, especially if these weather events are to become more frequent. Like reviewing the routes for long term sustainability. Maybe a mile or three inland would be a better idea? We have dropped quite a few Victorian ideas as required, and some of their route choices look due for this treatment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2014 I may be completely wrong here but isn't it Network Rail's responsibility to keep the trains running, and local government's responsibility to keep the sea away as best they can? A concerted joint effort would seem to be called for... of course all the relevant authorities should get together, but if Railtrack keeps reinstating the railway how much incentive is there for others to do more at no doubt considerable cost when budgets are limited? How many washouts before it becomes more cost effective for Railtrack to spend a bit more putting in a more substantive and resistant defence? Surely what matters is that these issues are discussed, not ignored in the rush to get the line reopen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2014 In BR days there was "our man at Westminster" who lobbied and kept BR's interests before Members as best he could. One would hope NR has a similar role ensuring the Welsh Assembly is aware of the situation, the risks and opportunities. My limited knowledge of the locale suggests that coming inland might be easier in some places than others, and I suspect the original surveyors will have been reluctant to be too close to the sea unless costs for an alternative were too high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Ffestiniog tool van got blown off the rails last night whilst parked on the Cob https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153767056210716&set=a.282327925715.320369.240578110715&type=1&theatre Again, Facebook account needed to access the photo. All was back on track by mid morning, but it managed to make Wales Today (oooh...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2014 On of 'our own' (St Simon - Apprentice @ NR) has been working on that stretch; hope the stuff is OK ? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Ffestiniog tool van got blown off the rails last night whilst parked on the Cob https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153767056210716&set=a.282327925715.320369.240578110715&type=1&theatre Again, Facebook account needed to access the photo. All was back on track by mid morning, but it managed to make Wales Today (oooh...) Not the first time a vehicle has been blown over on the Cob! On one occasion long ago a coach was blown clean off its bogies (it was only held on by gravity) and Col. Stephens went looking to buy an anemometer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Not the first time a vehicle has been blown over on the Cob! On one occasion long ago a coach was blown clean off its bogies (it was only held on by gravity) and Col. Stephens went looking to buy an anemometer! When did Col. Stephens own the Ffestiniog? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2014 When did Col. Stephens own the Ffestiniog? He became responsible for engineering management of the line from 1923 and was Chairman from 1925 until 1930 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Reading the waffle coming out of Cardiff I doubt very much that anything will happen as far as infrastructure on Welsh rlys they cant even run their part of the NHS properly all talk no action that's the Welsh Assembly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 The question has to be asked: Would the level of traffic on this section of line ever justify the huge expense of relocation inland ? Personally I doubt that it would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Wales Today had a bizarre piece about the problems saying the line won't be able to open before May but didn't explain if this was the previously announced full reopening or whether Network Rail have now decided to reopen the whole line in May and not partially reopen south of Barmouth sooner. Typical Wales Today who are a bit slapdash when it comes to these kind of things. Even more bizarrely they had some knob of a talking head from Barmouth who claimed to be a user, but questioned the spending of "£3 million" on repairs when the line will be taken out by global warming...clearly missing the point that if the line is closed the increase in road traffic would add even more greenhouse emissions. Despite what he says the line is well used even in the winter, even on the coast line, as the parallel road journeys take far longer than the train and many bus services in the area have been severely cut in recent times. As a "user" our five-minutes of fame seeking should have known better, and I suspect a fatwah will be put out on him by the people of Barmouth for his unwanted views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted February 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2014 Our guys have been down repairing the infrastructure in Penzance all day today. Apparently its much worse this time and was only repaired 3 weeks ago! Ive heard that the cables and troughing route was in the 4 foot of the down along with tons of stone and ballast. There's another big tide tonite and winds gusting to 80 mph along the south western coast. I hope they didn't achieve to much in Penzance today as by the time tonites over with the track will look like a bomb site again tomorrow morning. And to top it all off my mother's just been on the phone to say that tiles are coming off her roof! When will it bloody end?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 My sympathies only go out to those who keep having to repair everything over and over again. You lay the cables and repair the track only to have to do it all over again. I know it keeps you employed rather than unemployed, but I can not help feeling there must be a better way to make things more robust. It all seems a depressing waste of time and money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 If, as has been indicated, the Cambrian line remains closed until May, it goes without saying that 'rail travellers' will have found alternative means of getting around. Getting them back won't be easy, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a test. North Wales used to have a network of lines and the slowness of journeys wasn't noticed seeing an no one had anything to compare them to if they had never owned a car. Encouraged by Beeching (and Crosville) into buying an old bangor in 1965, it surprised me how quickly I could get to places that I had only previously travelled to by train. Those days are long gone but the Cambrian and the Conwy Valley routes survive. If the trees were cut back the Conwy Valley line would look exactly as it did 60 years ago. But enemies are at the gate with buses pacing trains on much improved roads. Dolgarrog has suffered from flooding for many years so now't new there, but keeping the river away from Llanrwst is the newie. The Cambrian is different with stretches of it exposed to the sea. There is an opinion that many coastal areas and low-lying lands are going to be lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium The White Rabbit Posted February 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2014 My limited knowledge of the locale suggests that coming inland might be easier in some places than others, and I suspect the original surveyors will have been reluctant to be too close to the sea unless costs for an alternative were too high. With the possible exception of the stretch just north of Tywyn, I doubt there would be any point in diverting inland. The sections most at risk are in places where there's no choice at all. The line truly is "mor a mynydd" (sea and mountain). From Machynlleth to Porthmadog the line runs either on flood or coastal plains or on ledges cut out of the hills. Most of my decent frames are 'safely' in storage but there's two of the line along the Dovey, where we've not heard of there being problems. This was taken from the train (further east from the first) and shows the line on top of a stone embankment. The High Water mark is supposed to be at the base of the embankment but you can see from the plant growth this tends to be only at spring tides and even then, how shallow the water is at the base. I worry about the line's future, I know how vital it is to the local community and suspect a lot of local people are suffering, especially students and their families. I would generally agree with coachmann for North Wales but when it comes to the Cambrian, the Dovey, Mawddach and Dwyryd rivers mean the railway is always going to be best for the people living in the coastal towns and villages (and visitors). Some low-lying areas are certainly under threat - see the recent reports and speculation about Somerset. And some areas on Britain's east coast have already been abandoned to nature/the sea. But I suspect the west coast of Wales won't suffer as much from this. Partly this is because Britain is tilting (I believe as a delayed reaction to the ending of the last Ice Age and the release of pressure from the weight of ice?) with the east coast sinking and the west rising. And this is supposed to be happening relatively quickly too. Most historians place Harlech Castle almost on the seashore when it was built, but it's now half a mile inland. Also, many parts of Cardigan Bay are silting up and have been doing so for several hundred years. These may limit the effect of rising sea levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 its a shame they can't build a concrete that is higher that track level and raise the track up by an extra 2 meters at the same time, so it as some kind of tidal defence in place... I guess that just put the costs up even higher, and is it worth all that as they will say, just for that line. but its ok it doesn't effect them, there railway line is inland and the attitude that... well it doesn't effect me so I don't car... It will be a great shame if we saw it close, but then I'm sure a private railway run by steam would make a great privatised line, I don't think it would ever be closed and done away with, because we now live in a time where people will buy it, like the SVR and many others etc. It would be saved in that sense. Jamie Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 It will be a great shame if we saw it close, but then I'm sure a private railway run by steam would make a great privatised line, I don't think it would ever be closed and done away with, because we now live in a time where people will buy it, like the SVR and many others etc. It would be saved in that sense. They would need very deep pockets to keep it maintained then. I doubt that the money from a preserved line would achieve that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium The White Rabbit Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 its a shame they can't build a concrete that is higher that track level and raise the track up by an extra 2 meters at the same time, so it as some kind of tidal defence in place... I guess that just put the costs up even higher, and is it worth all that as they will say, just for that line. but its ok it doesn't effect them, there railway line is inland and the attitude that... well it doesn't effect me so I don't care... From what I've seen and heard, it's not flooding that's the problem here, but debris thrown up by wave action. I suspect raising the track level wouldn't make much difference. I'm not a civil engineer but I would speculate that a more effective approach would be to increase the width of sea defences to 'trap' debris in the defences before it goes onto the track. The trouble with spending money on improvements is that people look at the cost of these, not the cost of not doing the work. (What economists call the 'opportunity cost'). So we very often end up with public bodies spending more money overall because they wouldn't pay a smaller amount as a one-off to do the job properly in the first place. The Cambrian as a steam line is a nice fantasy but I can't see it working in reality, partly because of the high PW cost and partly as it is a community railway, they would need faster services and more modern stock than a heritage line could operate. Though I have wondered in the past whether the Mach - Pwllheli section would be offered as a micro-franchise and run by a local team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2014 its a shame they can't build a concrete that is higher that track level and raise the track up by an extra 2 meters at the same time, so it as some kind of tidal defence in place... I guess that just put the costs up even higher, and is it worth all that as they will say, just for that line. but its ok it doesn't effect them, there railway line is inland and the attitude that... well it doesn't effect me so I don't car... It will be a great shame if we saw it close, but then I'm sure a private railway run by steam would make a great privatised line, I don't think it would ever be closed and done away with, because we now live in a time where people will buy it, like the SVR and many others etc. It would be saved in that sense. Jamie Jamie I can remember this sort of thing being talked about a good many years ago and someone worked out that if, say, the Ffestiniog took over the Cambrian Coast Line the fare from Dovey Jcn to Pwllheli would be about £100, single (at early 1970s prices). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 Cheers for the ratings fella's, much appreciated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 BBC Wales website quoting Monday for reopening to Barmouth assuming nothing untoward happens on Saturday - I remain to be convinced although the Network Rail website is also saying the same today http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/Cambrian-Coast-Railway-Update-1fd0.aspx Track repairs Meanwhile, Network Rail has announced plans to improve the "resilience" of coastal rail lines in Wales due to "extreme weather and changing climate". A section of the Cambrian Line between Machynlleth in Powys and Barmouth, Gwynedd, which was damaged in a storm surge in January is expected to reopen on Monday. Another section of damaged line from Barmouth to Pwllheli in Gwynedd is not due to re-open until mid-May. Network Rail said the final cost of the flood repair works on the Cambrian rail line is estimated to be £10m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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