Kettering ironstone Manning Wardle

[sir douglas]

According to this website the surving member of the kettering manning wardles was once plinthed in Corby but is now under restoration by the Market Harborough

traction engine club

 

http://geoffspages.co.uk/raildiary/corbysteam.htm

 

does anybody know of its current condition?

[45669]

That sounds like good news.  The Kettering Furnaces line was one that I always wanted to visit but never did.  I did visit the metre gauge line at Wellingborough though and there are a few pictures in this collection :

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/sets/72157626336121110/

[sir douglas]

it is such a shame there is so little british 3 ft gauge preservation (excluding IOM) bt there are plans to bring back a bit of the southwold, and there was once nearly as many 3ft gauge industrial railways as there was 2ft

[Sir Hadyn]

It's under a steady and very high quality overhaul, I think the next big push is the boiler. Not seen it for a few years, but the bottom half was coming on nicely. The ownership passed from Kettering Council to the Welland Valley Traction Engine Club so that was a major incentive to get on with it.

[sir douglas]

thank you sir hadyn for that info, i have now "liked" the welland valley traction club on facebook, i asked them through a message if they have any photos, which they dont, but very kindly offered to take a photo for me.

 

this news of the restoration of No 8 has made me very happy.

 

while i was talking to them i have asked them about their plans for it after it is finished, i have suggested that they could loan it the Southwold railway which is currently being brought back, i bet that they would easily let it stay because of the shortage of available 3ft gauge locos. i have only just asked them so will come back when i have a reply.

[black5f]

Hi. She spent many years outside the Manor House in Kettering, I remember climbing all over her. She was moved in about '77 the flange marks she left in the road from the move could still be seen in the late 90's. She then spent some years (as my memory serves me) in a field near Holcott with a collection of traction engine but is now in good hand at Market Harborough. Can't wait to see her finished shes a very pretty engine. There's almost no sign the line ever existed but these lines were so temporary that almost all signs were gone within a year of closure. There are still odd depressions in the fields if you look closely and some of the bridge parapets still exist, weird out of place small sections of wall either side on some of the smaller roads. I live within walking distance of where the line was and work very close to the old furnace site. There is one field where the site of the old track bed is clear. But all gone :-( except for Number 8 :-)

 

Need to make a visit as I want to model 6,7, and 8.

 

Go here for colour film of No 8 and sisters 13:55 to 17:37 massive modeling opportunities ... enjoy!

 

 

Tom

[Dava]

Great film, you get a fleeting glimpse of the loco restoration from Midland Mainline trains south of Market Harbro

 

Dave

[sir douglas]

yes a very good film, tom. i watched it only last month

 

Regards, Sam.

[black5f]

yes a very good film, tom. i watched it only last month

 

Regards, Sam.

 

 

Magic isn't it.

 

Tom

[black5f]

I believe clips 3 and 4 are No 8. No 8 was built with a full cab, 6 and 7 had full cabs added later and are slightly different in the rear spectacle plate being originally built with only basic weather boards. Midland Red with black and white lining until at least 1935, then green according to some old photos in a friends book. I have some good side views and I know the drivers were 2ft 9" so will one day draw them up. Would be interested in any drawings? 6mile trip should allow me to measure the WB.

 

Tom

[black5f]

Still researching for drawings I came across this which made me very pleased. No 8 has a surviving sister.

 

http://www.geoffs-trains.com/Museum/jacktar.html

 

Built after No 6 and before No 7 as far as I can tell, she is the same design, wheel base, wheel diameter, chassis, boiler and tank (all the cabs were different on 6,7and 8 anyway and then rebuilt differently again). 1159 was built as 3ft gauge and converted to 3ft 6inch.

 

How exciting. Planning models after I've cleared some current projects.

 

Tom

 

Edit: how bizarre, looking at the contact details this is the same Geoff as in the OP.

Edited September 21, 2014 by black5f

[sir douglas]

Wow, thanks black5f

 

the only recent photo i can find of it is from 2012

http://bestieboy.smugmug.com/Trains/Narrow-Gauge-Steam/18108698_K6dzhv/2297621360_9RjB887#!i=2297621360&k=9RjB887

[black5f]

I've got some pics of 6 and 7 unrebuilt but they are out of a book so don't want to infringe any copyright by posting.

But I've found some interesting snippets on the web.

The funny little brackets on the front are for a snow plough!

 

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/19/Snowploughs.htm

 

And a nice drawing of a wagon, from research KF had up to 360.

 

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/13/narrow_gauge_wagons_6.htm

 

And Jack Tar has a facebook page with more pictures and a rough drawing.

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.374549419230820.92967.256574611028302&type=3

 

There are some nice pics here of No 7 and 8 including one I haven't seen before, the only pic I've seen of one of the standard gauge engines they had, No 11

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/5611hongkong/8447207927/in/photostream/

 

Now it gets interesting! More evidence for a surviving sister of the same design.

 

Go here: http://www.industrial-loco.org.uk/

downloads and download Contractors locos parts 1 - 6

Scroll down to find J P Edwards (P41) then on to their 3ft locos (P43) and there it is, No 6 (Union Jack) and Jack Tar supplied new to the same contrator in the same year and were presumably working side by side before they were both sold (3 years before they were built ... presumably an error!!).

 

It's probably just utter chance that Jack Tar ended up in Africa on the Victoria Falls bridge instead of chuffing through a field near Rothwell. I'm planning a narrow gauge layout, a tempory departure from Midland main line in O. It'll be set on "Planet Tom" so plenty of licence to have No's 6,7,8 and Jack Tar. Planet Tom though is still struggling to explain the sudden and unexpected appearance of K28 No 475 and 10 bogie hoppers, but hey, it's my railway and I have always wanted one.

 

The document also shows No 9 std gauge "Carrington". And also the large number of 3ft gauge locos that were around at the turn of the last century.

 

Another question that needs answering, KF No 1 was a Black Hawthorn scrapped before the war, rumour says it was a crane tank?

There were lots of meter and 3ft around here running all sorts of locos including two French meter gauge Corpet and Louvet locos, Nantes and Cambrai (latter is preserved at Irchester). Lots of modelling opportunities.

 

Hope this little venture is of interest and not boring as hell!

 

Nantes and Cambrai here and here, in Northamptonshire.

 

http://www.ngrm.org.uk/Collections/IndustrialRailways/EastwellAndWalthamIronstoneCompany/EW008

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/60/Ironstone.htm

 

Kind of half a Dwyryd?

 

Tom

Edited September 24, 2014 by black5f

[sir douglas]

theres another IRSociety  back issue article on those locos during their derelict years, cant find it but instead,

 

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/1/Ironstone_1.htm

 

http://worcestervista.com/index.php/archives/2006/02/13/three-foot-gauge/

 

I suppose we're drifting a bit but (as OP) as long as we stay within the NG of the midlands ironstone industry, anything goes, Jack Tar is an exeption to this rule for obvious intesrest. But it looks like its just us two here Tom, what else is there to look at while we pass the time?

 

Regards, sam.

[barrowroad]

Looks like this youtube film contains a lot if not all of film footage taken by Ivo Peters - his Bentley appears in the film - as I recognise the footage from a number of VHS tapes I bought in the late 80's and early 90's.

 

 

 

Go here for colour film of No 8 and sisters 13:55 to 17:37 massive modeling opportunities ... enjoy!

 

 

Tom

[black5f]

Well.... I very much like your Mallet design, looks nice and powerful and plenty of space in a model for lots of weight. Reminds me of some of the heavy industrial output of Messers Corpet and Louvet I have seen pictures of. Some nice chunky 0-8-0s as well.

 

What do you think re modeling? How to get the right look of these little 3ft gauge beauties in 7mm without hand layiing 60ft+ of 21mm gauge track (which aint ever gona happen). I have some wild ideas but will need some experimentation. Oh, and wheels and gears etc.

 

T

[sir douglas]

Theres a gentleman called Peter Kazer, he has done some brilliant 3ft modelling in 1/4 inch scale (very close to 7mm) and 3/4 inch gauge, R&ER Boot station and South wold railway Blythburgh station

 

 

 

Ive seen these two layouts mayself and they do look fantastic.  its not as hard as it might first sound to model 7mm scale 21mm gauge, i might even have a go one day just so i can model the kettering engines and the Scoutmoor A&P "Excelsior"

[black5f]

Hi

 

For me 1/48 would be a good option as there is commercial support for track (On3). The layout plan that is developing has a standard gauge feeder that'll be 1:43 (Lamport No 5 is well under way!). The rest is planned as 16.5 (don't have a go at me please). But this is a mix of some comercial stuff already souced in 1:48 (Bachmann connies) and a 7mm NGG16 (under conctruction). I'm going to play with some axles this afternoon and play with some gauges to try and get to "look" of 3ft in my mind.

 

Mean while, where have I been this morning? Climbing all over No 8! I got the opportunity by chance and am looking forward to getting some dims form the cab and tank which were locked away at the time.

 

 

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

[black5f]

PS. The chassis dims are an exact match for the rough drawing I have of Jack Tar.

T

[black5f]

Mr Kazers track looks very nice indeed!

 

16.5 vs 21? Turned up a couple of axles, wheels are too big, should be 19 vs 22.5 (2ft 9 but slaters make some MW 2ft 8"?).

Photo sitting on a drawing of the buffer beam I've been working on. Track will clearly look very wrong but think the engines won't look too bad.

Despite being O gauge F/S wheels they trundle through peco 0-16.5 turnouts very nicely so haven't bothered to thin the flanges. Interesting.

 

 

T

Edited September 27, 2014 by black5f

[sir douglas]

you lucky fellow, seeing it in person. nothing against 16.5 at all, its more practical and cheaper, im not bothered with these finescale and gauge arguements, theres a great 009 model of a hunslet waril, although it would be more accurate in 09, doesnt matter though, if it looks right then it is right. I will defo be following your progress

Edited September 27, 2014 by sir douglas

[gwernol]

A colour photograph of Kettering Furnaces No. 8 at Kettering: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crowquine/15300200169/in/set-72157647340148870

[black5f]

A colour photograph of Kettering Furnaces No. 8 at Kettering: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crowquine/15300200169/in/set-72157647340148870

Hi

 

Fantastic and thanks for pointing me at that, a new one for me. Those in the know have speculated that she was laid up at this point? She appears to have received a ghastly but protective repaint when stored outside the Manor House and quite out of character. Maroon when built, green after RSH rebuild. I don't know what they rebuilt re looks, I don't think very much but her sisters change quite a bit with full cabs added.

The colour in this image seems really good, I am drawn to the wheels, looks to me like they might have all been yellow, yellow rods and cross head. So that's another line of research .. what colour was she and when.

T

[black5f]

Hi

 

On the subject of old ironstone quarries, well, anything old really I know of this site. Old maps. Really interesting to  step through and see just how they developed, and then vanished. Seems a really good resource for track plans etc.

 

Quite interesting to see how the different systems almost butted up against each other, never meeting and even of different gauges.

 

http://www.oldmapsonline.org/#bbox=-0.880989,52.349564,-0.63105,52.449276&q=&datefrom=1000&dateto=2010

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101574844

 

T

[black5f]

On the subject of modelling 3ft gauge the easy and lazy way (me).

 

I've now got some Slaters O gauge MW 2ft 8" wheels with 16.5 axles and they appear to run through code 100 OK. Xmas coming up and more time to spend I need to try them on a code 75 asymmetrical 3 way for this well planned but as yet virtual layout! Not to be put off I may just ban them from these routes.

Not yet at the point of building a model of No 8 but have all the info I need to start. Time is the big enemy but might get a chance to put a chassis together over Xmas to look at this track thing. If any success (and time) I'll start a layout and a loco thread separate.

 

Completely off topic, got sent to Mexico and found this lovely outside framed oil fired 4-6-0 Baldwin, 30 inch gauge I believe. Not sure how they managed to do that to the rear axle. Logo is a footwear brand. She is sitting next to an enormousness standard gauge 4-8-4 which seemed to be the home of many very pretty little birds.

 

 

 

T