RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted January 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2014 Hi folks, I have one of the above locos in SDJR livery (Bachmann's rtr product of 2013) and I am wondering what I can run behind it. Railway company stock is fairly straightforward, however I have no idea about private owner stock or brake vans? Can anyone point me in the direction of some suitable traders liveries (especially if available rtr), and also in the direction of a suitable brake van. As the loco is in SDJR blue, I am looking for stock from the late 1920s. Many thanks for any help offered. Regards, Alex, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) If you can, get a copy of this;- http://www.amazon.co.uk/illustrated-history-Southern-wagons-one/dp/0860932079/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1390553001&sr=8-3&keywords=illustrated+history+of+southern+railway+wagons But they did spend most of their time running behind (banker) instead of in front, and then it was wagons of the various mine owners in the Somerset coalfield. Edited January 24, 2014 by bike2steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) ... But they did spend most of their time running behind (banker) instead of in front, and then it was wagons of the various mine owners in the Somerset coalfield. True, but remember that, as delivered, they had screw reverse, vacuum brake and steam heating because they were intented for passenger use as well as banking and goods trips. However, they were introduced around a year before the LMS took over the locomotive side and he LMS quickly found other uses for these passenger-capable locos. Two had gone by July 1930 and, though they returned briefly, all had gone by the end of 1934. Only No 25 (7316 after 1934) returned during the war and stayed almos to the end. Some photo evidence suggests thekept the blue livery for a few years, so 1929-1934 is the date range for the livery, rather than "late 1920s". Of course, adding the passenger element doesn't make things much easier as there's not much in the way of contemporary stock available. Nick Edited January 24, 2014 by buffalo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) One thing I forgot to add, regarding brake vans, if you are modelling the 1920's, it would have been before the LMS or SR standard designs, and would have included incursions by Midland Railway, and LSWR types. If you don't already know of it try;- http://sdjr.net/ Edited January 24, 2014 by bike2steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted January 24, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Hi folks, Thanks for that information. I seen the book before but had never noticed that it included SDJR stock. Time to go finding names of coal companies from Somerset. Once more, many thanks. Regards, Alex. Edited January 24, 2014 by Alex TM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted February 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2014 How about the L&SWR road van from Small brook studios, Alex ? Would look very nice I'm sure. http://www.smallbrookstudio.com/page3.php Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted February 7, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hi Rob, Yes, it does look very nice. Not tried my hand at a full resin kit before so it could be a good excuse/reason. Thanks for the suggestion. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Herbert Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi Alex, For rtr, how about this current Bachmann offering? http://www.mremag.com/news/article/Bachmann-writhlington-collieries-5-plank-wagon-37-065/16428 and http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/593_1_106176200.html You can see a couple of these wagons (or very similar at least) in the background in a photo in Robin Athill's The Somerset and Dorset Railway (plates between p84 & 5 in my edition). Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted March 4, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi again, Once more, thanks you for all the help. In terms of the company stock, what happened to it at the grouping in 1923 or did it soldier on until the SDJR was absorbed? Specifically, would the Bagnall/Jinty have run with SDJR vans or LMS ones? Once more, many thanks in advance. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think by the late 20s early 30s you would be unlikely to see stock in pre-group livery, but plenty of pre- group stock still existed, reprinted into the contemporary owners liveries, I'll check my copy of the HMRS Midland style book for you and see what it suggests. Mildy of topic, but I work In Edinburgh and share your interest In the S&DJR, happy to try and answer any questions if my library of S&DJR books can help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 In terms of the company stock, what happened to it at the grouping in 1923 or did it soldier on until the SDJR was absorbed? Specifically, would the Bagnall/Jinty have run with SDJR vans or LMS ones? I think by the late 20s early 30s you would be unlikely to see stock in pre-group livery, but plenty of pre- group stock still existed, reprinted into the contemporary owners liveries, Slightly O/T and area but the LMS put out a film in 1935 which had a wagon at Camden in LNWR livery right in mid shot surrounded by all the Big Four post grouping liveries. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Shows what I know! Of course, despite the contemporary date who knows what age the footage was. At this distance, it's difficult to know, and rule 1 can always apply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The HMRS book wasn't any help. The few contemporary photos I can find ( most books seem to feature more passenger trains of the period) show stock in big four liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) ... In terms of the company stock, what happened to it at the grouping in 1923 or did it soldier on until the SDJR was absorbed? Specifically, would the Bagnall/Jinty have run with SDJR vans or LMS ones? The changes at the grouping were mostly legal and had little effect on the appearance of stock. Previously, the line had been leased by the LSWR and MR. They, of course, ceased to exist. The Somerset & Dorset Railway Co was wound up and it became the joint property of the LMS and SR from July 1923. Outwardly pretty much everything remained the same until 1930 when the LMS took over responsibility for running and the SR for maintenance and civil engineering. At this point, locos were transferred to LMS stock and, over the next few years, were repainted in LMS black. Carriage stock was painted in SR green. Other rolling stock was split between the two companies. So, prior to 1930, and possibly for a few years after, wagons and vans in SDJR livery would have been seen alongside LMS, SR and stock from the rest of the big four as well as PO wagons and, as Jon suggests, a declining number of vehicles still in pre-grouping liveries. Nick Edited March 5, 2014 by buffalo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 My understanding was that the majority of goods stock, with the exception of goods brake vans, some peat wagons and service stock such as loco coal wagons, was split between the Midland and L&SWR as early as June 1914. I am not sure how those that remained were lettered etc, post 1923. The balance was the divided in 1930. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 You're quite right, Rob, I'd forgotten about the 1914 split There's a detailed table in Bixley et al. "An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons, Vol 1" which gives a breakdown of what was retained and what was transferred in both 1914 and 1930. In 1914, 568 wagons went to the LSWR and 568 to the MR, with only 221 being retained. Apart from those you mention, 24 ballast wagons and 14 'miscellaneous' wagons were retained. A little confusingly, they list 101 service vehicles, presumably engineering dept etc., in the 1913 BoT return, though these are not shown as either retained or transferred. However, there were 106 in this category in the 1919 return and the same number were divided in 1930. In terms of Alex' question, all covered vans and cattle wagons were transferred. Bixley et al. suggest, and I don't know of any contrary evidence, that the retained stock stayed in S&D livery until 1930. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 You're quite right, Rob, I'd forgotten about the 1914 split There's a detailed table in Bixley et al. "An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons, Vol 1" which gives a breakdown of what was retained and what was transferred in both 1914 and 1930. In 1914, 568 wagons went to the LSWR and 568 to the MR, with only 221 being retained. Apart from those you mention, 24 ballast wagons and 14 'miscellaneous' wagons were retained. A little confusingly, they list 101 service vehicles, presumably engineering dept etc., in the 1913 BoT return, though these are not shown as either retained or transferred. However, there were 106 in this category in the 1919 return and the same number were divided in 1930. In terms of Alex' question, all covered vans and cattle wagons were transferred. Bixley et al. suggest, and I don't know of any contrary evidence, that the retained stock stayed in S&D livery until 1930. Nick Casserley photographed loco coal wagons in SDJR livery when he visited Radstock in the late '20s so yes we can probably say the retained stock stayed in SDJR livery until its next repaint after 1930. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hi folks, Thanks for that information. I seen the book before but had never noticed that it included SDJR stock. Time to go finding names of coal companies from Somerset. Once more, many thanks. Regards, Alex. Shameless Plug Alert! http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/view_book.php?ref=L9877§ion=CatNew will soon be available... Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted March 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2014 Shameless Plug Alert! http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/view_book.php?ref=L9877§ion=CatNew will soon be available... Richard Plug away Richard, I'm really looking forward to this volume.I saw Ian Pope at the weekend and he said it should be available in time for the Bristol show in Thornbury at the beginning of May along with the revised book on Camerton Colliery - the original of the latter was one of the main sources for my Highbury Colliery layout - see the link in my signature below. Jerry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Plug away Richard, I'm really looking forward to this volume... Me too! ...along with the revised book on Camerton Colliery - the original of the latter was one of the main sources for my Highbury Colliery layout... Jerry, I'm confused. I can think of several books on the coalfield with some coverage of the Camerton pits, and then there's the Maggs & Beale volume on the Camerton branch, but a book specifically on the pits? What am I missing? Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Me too! Jerry, I'm confused. I can think of several books on the coalfield with some coverage of the Camerton pits, and then there's the Maggs & Beale volume on the Camerton branch, but a book specifically on the pits? What am I missing? Nick Hi Nick, yes there was a very useful little booklet 'Coals from Camerton'. It had some very nice photos and particularly line and sketch drawings of the colliery although reproduction was not great. The revised version will I'm sure be much better produced as well as being greatly expanded. See http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/view_book.php?ref=L9860 I wonder if it might be worth starting a new thread to publicise the release of these exciting new books for students of the railways and industries of Somerset. cheers Jerry Edited March 7, 2014 by queensquare 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thanks, Jerry. How on earth did I miss that I do hope the proof-reading and editing is up to scratch, though. The first picture on the Lightmoor page is captioned "New Pit from the east...", it looks like from the west to me! Yes, I'm sure there's enough of us interested in the area for a new thread welcoming these books. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 This wagon might be of use to you http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOMERSET-COLLIERIES-LTD-WAGON-KIT-CAMBRIAN-OO-/261412581359?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3cdd676fef there were other ones as well in the past which were pre lettered for the Somerset collieries Indeed,I have quite a few of these old Cambrian kits and am always on the lookout for more. I believe there was also a Timsbury Collieries kit made in rather limited numbers, though I've never seen one appear on ebay or elsewhere. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Indeed,I have quite a few of these old Cambrian kits and am always on the lookout for more. I believe there was also a Timsbury Collieries kit made in rather limited numbers, though I've never seen one appear on ebay or elsewhere. Nick Yes they did the Timsbury wagon – apart from the use of a Gloucester underframe – it was an accurate enough model of the wagons in their 1908-1916 livery. They do crop up on eBay very occasionally. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yes they did the Timsbury wagon – apart from the use of a Gloucester underframe – it was an accurate enough model of the wagons in their 1908-1916 livery. They do crop up on eBay very occasionally. Richard Here's my three Timsbury wagons. The middle one is the kit, suitably tweaked, the other two are scratchbuilds, all from 30 years ago or more... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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