'CHARD Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 This shot, from the camera of the prolific and well-travelled Kenneth Gray, shows 44740 at LLandudno Jct, with another rather disreputable looking machine behind, captured in 1963. As we all know, I don't understand steam really, but this Black 5 has unusual motion - like Stephenson, or Walschaerts or something, surely? I don't have a combine to hand (but I'm learning, honest...) http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=46069 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Looks like a Caprotti Black 5 with a high running plate.. Some pics here. Scroll down about half way. Possibly 44686 or 44687. http://www.6g.nwrail.org.uk/caprotti5s.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 ISTR that the two "high running plate" loco's were the work of Ivatt, and were actually built under BR. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Like 'CHARD, it's nice to learn something new. It's a bit like mental fruit. 5-a-day would be nice... Having heard of Caprotti, I now know it wasn't an Italian racing driver... I hope to learn a LOT through Death Steam; one subject that has been a longstanding source of intrigue is the existence of regional dumping sites where withdrawn locos were stored en masse. IIRC there was a set of wayside sidings in Shropshire - near Whitchurch maybe, where withdrawn locos were concentrated before tripping to the likes of Cashmore's at Great Bridge. I don't propose to get too hung up on scrap yards, that was beyond my remit when I was considering this topic, but the ranks of withdrawn assets always make for pungent images and potent anecdotes. Here's Hurlford stored loco line in '62: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=45621 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 44686 and 44687 were the last two Black five built, coming out from Horwich in 1951 at the same time as deliveries of the first 73000 Standards from Derby.. They were at Llandudno Junction from 1960 to 1963. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 I hope to learn a LOT through Death Steam; one subject that has been a longstanding source of intrigue is the existence of regional dumping sites where withdrawn locos were stored en masse. IIRC there was a set of wayside sidings in Shropshire - near Whitchurch maybe, where withdrawn locos were concentrated before tripping to the likes of Cashmore's at Great Bridge. I don't propose to get too hung up on scrap yards, that was beyond my remit when I was considering this topic, but the ranks of withdrawn assets always make for pungent images and potent anecdotes. Here's Hurlford stored loco line in '62: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=45621 Most steam sheds had a storage line or two. I remember the last two Compounds standing round the back of Monument Lane shed for a while before official withdrawal. Regarding large 'dumps', in the early 1960s there were a lot of locos stored at Badnall Wharf, just north of Norton Bridge. The site was the WCML end of the Cold Meece munitions factories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 44686 and 44687 were the last two Black five built, coming out from Horwich in 1951 at the same time as deliveries of the first 73000 Standards from Derby.. They were at Llandudno Junction from 1960 to 1963. I thought that was the case, but didn't want to commit to print in case someone shot me down in flames! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Badnall Wharf - that was the place. Thanks for the gen! Monument Lane must have had a legendary atmosphere. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=37437 http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=40961 I'll need to embark on a search of local photo resources at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 Quite a variety of stuff got stored at Badnall Wharf, including some L&Y stuff. http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p174461547/h43EB28E0#h43eb28e0 I remember seeing at least one of the Radstock Sentinels there waiting to go to scrap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Rising Star at Carnforth, unhappily stored away from home - which was 12A Kingmoor. 1967 again: http://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/10595315124/in/photolist-h9gL3Y-fEwgv2-dzsCuJ-h918sp-h92rQT-h92yZ2-dzn8EB-e5ZPEG-dRGmrR-dRNBEC-dAvTt6-dzs9YV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 If I have this correctly the OP illustrates rather nicely the contrasts between the two types of caprotti gear fitted to black 5s Note the absence of any valve gear on this (drivers) side of 44740 - gear is on the firemans side and valves on the drivers side are I think driven by a shaft from the firemans side. This if I have it correctly is the original Italian gear - the loco behind is fitted with British Caprotti gear on both sides as made by Associated Locomotive Equipment in my home town of Worcester. See http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Associated_Locomotive_Equipment for further gen on this Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 I hope to learn a LOT through Death Steam; one subject that has been a longstanding source of intrigue is the existence of regional dumping sites where withdrawn locos were stored en masse. IIRC there was a set of wayside sidings in Shropshire - near Whitchurch maybe, where withdrawn locos were concentrated before tripping to the likes of Cashmore's at Great Bridge. I don't propose to get too hung up on scrap yards, that was beyond my remit when I was considering this topic, but the ranks of withdrawn assets always make for pungent images and potent anecdotes. Here's Hurlford stored loco line in '62: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=45621 Shelf sidings at Sutton Bridge Junction, Shrewsbury were the major concentration point for locos from the north west en route to South Wales scrap yards Links to a couple of photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/90134546@N00/4443260645/in/photolist-7LCSAa-8ZoeBU-8ZkaY4-9oaBhe-8ZkaGV-8Zoeuj-8Zkb8M-8YCBwq-9o5S3f-ehGxVt-ehNhTu-8u3wPW-ehGxMV-ehNidd-ehGudB-9gTZV9-e824TF-93P3z4-93P3Ei-e4P5CS-9uPDFu-9uLDLX-8ZoeSS-9HmjsZ-8Vx5Fq-8Vx5h9-8Vu2ti-8VtX9k-9odDqm-aTS7fn-eQ9366-eQ9rLi-e3B8VV-e74PNL-ehGxVV-bf1DVn-ehNdY7-dLQBvm-bY4bFQ-bY4bt3-cM5UkG-cvPATq-a37kGE-a34tU4-8kjeBc-cvPxqj-8HwNuX-aSSXyH-dyqcaZ-a34uY4-dyvHwm http://www.flickr.com/photos/90134546@N00/139171002/in/photolist-dihG3-2oGgTR-2wovvu-3CxLQb-4xeFVm-6KuSRX-7LCSAa-8ZoeBU-8ZkaY4-9oaBhe-8ZkaGV-8Zoeuj-8Zkb8M-8YCBwq-9o5S3f-ehGxVt-ehNhTu-8u3wPW-ehGxMV-ehNidd-ehGudB-9gTZV9-e824TF-93P3z4-93P3Ei-e4P5CS-9uPDFu-9uLDLX-8ZoeSS-9HmjsZ-8Vx5Fq-8Vx5h9-8Vu2ti-8VtX9k-9odDqm-aTS7fn-eQ9366-eQ9rLi-e3B8VV-e74PNL-ehGxVV-bf1DVn-ehNdY7-dLQBvm-bY4bFQ-bY4bt3-cM5UkG-cvPATq-a37kGE-a34tU4-8kjeBc Seems a rarely photographed location but there is a nice shot of the same location with lines of locos in Steam for Scrap Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 Badnall Wharf - that was the place. Thanks for the gen! Monument Lane must have had a legendary atmosphere. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=37437 http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=40961 I'll need to embark on a search of local photo resources at some point. There was a book about Monument Lane shed published a few years ago. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Monument-Lane-Loco-Shed-Higgs/dp/1858584353 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 A few photos on eBay at the moment, check out the timber over the retaining wall! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neg-WITH-CR-40692-in-store-at-Monument-Lane-MPD-10-December-1960-/201020286359?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item2ecdbe2597 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 Rising Star at Carnforth, unhappily stored away from home - which was 12A Kingmoor. 1967 again: http://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/10595315124/in/photolist-h9gL3Y-fEwgv2-dzsCuJ-h918sp-h92rQT-h92yZ2-dzn8EB-e5ZPEG-dRGmrR-dRNBEC-dAvTt6-dzs9YV Interesting that as in earlier years Upperby was used for storing engines in the Carlisle area but presumably was either full or they wanted steam kept out of the way of 'modern traction' by then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 A few photos on eBay at the moment, check out the timber over the retaining wall! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neg-WITH-CR-40692-in-store-at-Monument-Lane-MPD-10-December-1960-/201020286359?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item2ecdbe2597 My dad was at the local Fire Station. I remember him going to a big fire in that timber yard. He was also on duty when a loco collided with Sheepcote Lane SB, which controlled the shed entrance. The box top ended up sitting on the tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The major dump in Scotland was at Boness Docks, and quite a few pictures were taken there. There was also one at Carnbroe, near Coatbridge, though I've seen very few pictures of that. Other places I know of were sidings at Greenock Princes Pier and Newton-on-Ayr stations and at Lugton. And certain sheds were used as dumps for other sheds. Many withdrawn engines from Edinburgh sheds went first to Bathgate shed on the way to scrapyards, Parkhead and Carstairs were used for the bigger Glasgow sheds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 Badnall Wharf - that was the place. Thanks for the gen! Monument Lane must have had a legendary atmosphere. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=37437 http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=40961 I'll need to embark on a search of local photo resources at some point. Although it didn't have an allocation of anything bigger than Black Fives including 44687 mentioned above, Monument Lane used to service incoming locos from elsewhere, and I saw Royal Scots, Jubilees and Patriots there. Reputedly it even got its hands on a Clan on one occasion. It's most interesting allocations and workings were of the local freights. Mitchell's and Butler Brewery at Cape Hill was connected to the Harborne branch at Rotton Park Road. When its own loco was under repair it used to hire in from BR, with notable visitors being LMS Sentinel 47184 and L&Y Pugs 11221 & 51218. The Harborne Branch itself was worked by a Midland 2F 0-6-0, giving me the chance to cab a few around 1959-61. The oldest was built by Dubs at Glasgow in 1875, lasting 86 years in service, with others from Neilsons, Kitsons and Beyer Peacock all based there at the same time. As they were so old I think they only got a quick coat of black paint on the cab sides to put on the BR numbers and the outline of the LMS number was visible to the end on some of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The last 'Crab' at Willesden, end of a line of hard workers. This example found it's way down from Gorton resulting in being 'stopped' as can be seen with the missing set of centre drivers, don't know if it made it home, as next time I went there it was gone. Now the prototype of my next venture, I managed to purchase at knock down price, a Bachmann example in late LMS livery, but will end up, repainted, re-liveried, as 42816, large numerals and all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2014 Death Steam was (is) not just UK, I recall a line of stored Beyer Garratt's at Livingstone, Zambia in 1974 where there was also the Zambezi Sawmills Rwy depot where the locos were disappearing into the bush.I photo'd those but the security was too nervy to get near the Beyers, there were cross border tensions with Rhodesia & I was only 14.Remember hearing a Beyer hauled train but not seeing it! Lots more international Death Steam.... Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The major dump in Scotland was at Boness Docks, and quite a few pictures were taken there. There was also one at Carnbroe, near Coatbridge, though I've seen very few pictures of that. Other places I know of were sidings at Greenock Princes Pier and Newton-on-Ayr stations and at Lugton. And certain sheds were used as dumps for other sheds. Many withdrawn engines from Edinburgh sheds went first to Bathgate shed on the way to scrapyards, Parkhead and Carstairs were used for the bigger Glasgow sheds. When I was 10, I was part of a small party on a marathon shed bash around Glasgow and Edinburgh. Something like 30 sheds in two days! We went to Bo'ness dump looking for the party leaders' last Duchess, 46230 Duchess of Buccleuch (hope that's spelled right!). There was nothing there, but among others we found a shedfull of withdrawn stuff at Parkhead, I believe, including the first five Clans and last three 8Fs, including 48773 which was reinstated and subsequently preserved. I still have the notes somewhere, taken by my father naturally, I couldn't write fast enough then! No camera though, film was beyond my parents limited means, although others did take pictures I've no idea what happened to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 We went to Bo'ness dump looking for the party leaders' last Duchess, 46230 Duchess of Buccleuch (hope that's spelled right!). There was nothing there, but among others we found a shedfull of withdrawn stuff at Parkhead, I believe, including the first five Clans and last three 8Fs, including 48773 which was reinstated and subsequently preserved. Your 'leader' must have been misinformed if he thought 46230 might be at Bo'ness. I only ever knew of engines from 64 and 65 district sheds going there. As far as I know, all the Polmadie Duchesses were scrapped at Crewe works and, with the exception of 46231/2 which were stored at Carstairs for a while, went there pretty quickly after being withdrawn. Those 8Fs at Parkhead may have set a record for the number of times they were withdrawn. They were first withdrawn at the end of 1962 (3 of the first 4 to be withdrawn), as the first Claytons were delivered to Polmadie, then rapidly reinstated as the Claytons proved to be somewhat less than reliable. Once things became a bit better, they were withdrawn again and stored at Parkhead, where you saw them. Then they were reinstated again and transferred to the LMR, where they worked for several more years before being withdrawn for the third and final time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Your 'leader' must have been misinformed if he thought 46230 might be at Bo'ness. I only ever knew of engines from 64 and 65 district sheds going there. As far as I know, all the Polmadie Duchesses were scrapped at Crewe works and, with the exception of 46231/2 which were stored at Carstairs for a while, went there pretty quickly after being withdrawn. Not sure where he got his info, we came from nearly 300 miles south, long before the motorways and internet! I suspect his 'info' was little more than informed guesswork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Not sure where he got his info, we came from nearly 300 miles south, long before the motorways and internet! I suspect his 'info' was little more than informed guesswork. Yes, I knew that feeling! Like looking for Lower Darwen shed several months after it had been demolished? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted February 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2014 46230 was indeed scrapped at Crewe Works circa Dec 1963. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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