Bricktrix Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hi all. One of my ongoing projects has been a DCC Class 37 using a Peter Clarke fan assisted smoke unit: Its been a bit of a labour of love but we got there eventualy with the basics. However, in this vid, I'm manually pressing the function key that we have allocated for the fan. I / we (my 2 other mates involved with this) are pretty sure we've not even scraped the surface with function application settings on this. So, does anyone know if its possible to either sync this fan function upto the soundwaves on the chip, or set a pre-programmed timing for when the fan switches on and off, just really for the start up sequence and then allow manual opperation thereafter whilst running? Either / or, or both. I'm thinking this must be possible to do somehow, turning the fan on and off for milisecs, etc to get a better effect. Or am I stuck with doing it all manually? *Edit, I'll add this is still an ongoing work in progress so ignore the window stickers, etc at the moment until I get everything finished! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted February 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2014 you cant help but smile!! absolutly brilliant!! Without access to the original project you cant do it...im assuming thats SWDs project there, you cant tune it to the soundwaves as such, but you can combine functions and make one operate for a set period of time, since the SWD project always starts up the same way this would be fairly simple to fine tune, to the engine hunting around during the startup procedure. Thrash however is a bit more difficult and i seem to recall (happy to be corrected) in the loksound software you can operate a function based on a state, the function in your case being that very effective fan! However like i said you would need access to the original project to do it, and on the loksound chip this will be locked i strongly suspect... However what your doing has very viable possibilities for the 7mm market, so you might capture the interest of one of the big players with that video (biffo, SWD, OLIVIAs, Howes, Pauliebanger, et all ) Model looks fantastic by the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Nice video, but you haven't given us much info to go on. If this were a ZIMO decoder I could tell you which CVs to set to give a dense smoke effect on start-up and then again on each acceleration, more modest output when cruising and hardly any when decelerating and standing. These effects are produced by the variable amount of smoke generated and speed/braking of the generator fan. These are automatically controlled by standard ZIMO decoders of all sizes, you do not need any extra kit. (But you do have to avoid the electronics on the smoke unit and make sure you do not use a relays, which are not only unnecessary, but counter productive). Below is a video my initial efforts, which is in a '00' gauge model. The lack of space made it difficult to 'balance' the two exhaust outputs so it's a fairly rough and ready, but it does show the fully automatic changes in 'smoke' effects possible. This is all controlled by the sound project/throttle, not by button pushing. If you have followed the Peter Clark instructions for ESU XL using a relay for switching and the electronic components on the decoder, then its on or off only I'm afraid. On or Off was all the ESU decoders were capable of controlling on their own without adding extra boards and stuff to make their own smoke units work. This may well have changed since I dabbled with them. I seem to remember Peter Clark Kits had an add-on unit for Lok XLs to overcome some of these deficiencies, have you had a look on his website? Why not ask the vendor of the decoder you are using? Kind regards, Paul PS, before you ask, there is no reliable way to change the 'Smoke' colour from white to black that I have discovered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricktrix Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Thanks guys. Yeah Paul, your vid was one of the first I saw on youtube when we were looking at these......black smoke was also my first question asked, I've even spoken to rocket guys that I know to see if there is any possible "legal / non harmful" way, but as you say, it doesnt appear so. Black burns black for a reason! I also spoke to Peter about the posibilities of operation and he suggested speaking to SWD, which I tried to before Christmas, but that period made it difficult to catch Richard is it? (Cant remember) and I've been busy since and sort of forgot about it. I've also spoken to Peter again today at the Stafford model rail show, along with Biff. This is using a ho/oo SWD Loksound V4 21 pin chip. Yeah we followed the instructions as per Peters website, but I'm sure my 2 mates involved with this have done things differently. We ended up cutting the board off the smoke unit, and I know they made their own version, maybe also incoporating some of its components, but we did have to end up getting one of the zero cross over AC relays. However, it wasnt working well using the "pulsing / blinking" settings suggested, i.e. not getting hot enough to produce smoke. So now its opperated by having the heater control on F9, which I have to remember to turn on / off and the fan assigned to F6. I've set the fan speed to 3 which blows more smoke out, good for a start up "bellow of smoke" but not so good for other situations. The type of controls you described are exactly what I'm after, but I'm pretty much stuck with using 21 pin Loksounds as I have the programmer and test board for them (as I have to set all the parameters up to get them to work with the LEGO motors.) As impressed as I am with the zimo chips, I cant really use them for the above reasons, if I could I would. We have a big LEGO show coming up at the O2 in London this May, so I've got 4 months to try and perfect this if I can, along with getting the rest of my models finished in time. (I have a 25' x 10' display, which mixes model grass and ballast with LEGO http://www.flickr.com/photos/bricktrix/7159661668/in/set-72157626190876621 ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I can help if you want to try a ZIMO MX644D. You don't need access to a programmer to 'tune' it, everything is accessible via CVs which you can change with your DCC controller or with the aid of Decoder Pro. If you can send a list of CV changes you have made to the standard Lok, I can programme them into a ZIMO for you to try. If you don't like it, send it back. What have you got to loose? You've probably noticed how much support I give to Zimo users, so you'll not be on your own. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricktrix Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Thanks Paul, sounds like an offer I cant really refuse. The goal with all this, is in one way shape or form to get more people into the hobby, if it be LEGO trains or model trains, one may inspire the other and vice versa. Hopefully good for all in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sug@rP@lm Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hi Here is the result of 'a bit' of fiddling with Loksound 4XL and PC smoke unit controlled on buttons. I had an idea that I should have tried using a Zimo decoder for this. I have some of your steam soundfiles on Zimo decoders, Paul, but for this project, relating engine revs to smoke output automatically would have been a great improvement. An indoor test provided a room full of smoke in seconds and you'd soon be deafened by smoke alarms. This video was taken on a blustery December night. Regards Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricktrix Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Bill, thats Bl**dy impressive considering the weather. Are you using 1 or 2 smoke units in that? If only 1 and you've split / ported the exhaust, thats even more impressive! Would be very interested in what you tinkered with in the settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sug@rP@lm Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Bill, thats Bl**dy impressive considering the weather. Are you using 1 or 2 smoke units in that? If only 1 and you've split / ported the exhaust, thats even more impressive! Would be very interested in what you tinkered with in the settings. That's one smoke unit with a 'manifold'. It's a v4 decoder so it had a fair amount of CV changes with the lights as well. I moved some of the sounds so that I could have the smoke control on low f buttons, if I recall. I did write it all down though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legomanbiffo Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Like the Zimo chip Paul is referring to, the Loksound v4 is capable of varying the oil temperature and fan speed on a per-sound-clip basis so in theory you can have fully modulated amounts of smoke and fan speed across the entire driving range. It's not something I've experimented with before as not many people use smoke units, but as our 7mm demo Deltic has just been fitted with one perhaps now is the time to have a play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sug@rP@lm Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Like the Zimo chip Paul is referring to, the Loksound v4 is capable of varying the oil temperature and fan speed on a per-sound-clip basis so in theory you can have fully modulated amounts of smoke and fan speed across the entire driving range. It's not something I've experimented with before as not many people use smoke units, but as our 7mm demo Deltic has just been fitted with one perhaps now is the time to have a play. Hi That has to go in the project file I would guess? It will be interesting to see how the demo Deltic smoke project goes. And I suppose too that the Zimo decoder also needs the temperature and fan control loaded with the project. Incidentally, the fan motors need very low voltage so to get a greater range of speed out of them a resistor would be needed. I did use the solid state relay (to be on the safe side) so the oil heat was all or nothing. BFN Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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