EMUs, locos, coaching stock and associated items for Balcombe

[Re6/6]

Progress so far (only a little I'm afraid!)

 

Finally the first side has had all the brass furniture added, grab handles (Roxey), 'T' handles (Southern Pride), hinges (Comet) and flattened and filed brass 0.55mm lace making pins.

 

This was a right faff to get right and many different methods were tried to get the fittings correct, but it has been very instructive in asking questions like at what point to form the turnunder/tumblehome. (never known which is correct...but I'm sure that somebody will enlighten me!)

 

Allen is kindly looking into the possibility of doing some etches for grab,'T' handles and door hinges on one etch to save having to buy three separate ones from three suppliers that come with additional stuff on them that I don't need.

 

Something that I would like learn from experienced coach builders on here is the best order of work. I had a slight problem with forming the turnunder due to the half etched door 'frames' imparting a very slight concertina effect and making it into a shallow banana shape. Not a serious or incurable problem, but perhaps I'm doing something wrong.

 

This side I'm putting down to experience and will be a 'non-viewing' one.

 

 

[Colin parks]

Hi John,

 

The coach side looks good from what I can see of it. In which plane has the distortion occurred - outwards or upwards? You wisely have bitten the bullet with a trailer vehicle. The motor coaches will be fun with their slab-sided van ends.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Re6/6]

Thanks Colin.

 

The bow is inwards at the top. I plan to solder on a length of 1.5mm angle just below the top to allow the Comet roof clearance to keep it flat..

 

I must practice on the resistance soldering kit beforehand!

 

 

 

You wisely have bitten the bullet with a trailer vehicle. 

 

Indeed, I have another to do before I tackle the driving cars!

 

Edited April 10, 2014 by Re6/6

[Colin parks]

Hi John,

 

I can see what you mean now! I thought brass coach sides would have had a fold-down strip at cantrail level to strengthen the top of the side. It looks as if the metal has expanded due to heating when the side was soldered up with all those details.

 

Given the size of the Balcombe project, will you be making more than one 4 LAV?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Re6/6]

Thanks Colin. You could well be correct there about overheating.

 

I did spend a lot of 'soldering time' whilst faffing about with all those small bits!

 

I think (hope!) that I've cracked it now with procedure and method. The resistance soldering kit was designed for just this sort of work. It is a brilliant bit of kit as I used it some years ago to build a Mitchell 7mm loco kit.

 

I'm trying not to think about more at the moment! Allen etched two sets for us. We will need at least an '8-LAV' but I would like to build a later set with a Bulleid style driving/motor coach or maybe one of the later hybrid sets that ran around at the end (HAL driving/motor coach...or any other quirky combinations!)

Edited April 12, 2014 by Re6/6

[Colin parks]

Hi John,

 

An 8 LAV combination will look a mighty fine sight going over the viaduct! Re. the two later 4 LAVs, there is a very good picture of one in pristine condition going across Balcombe viaduct in David Brown's Southern Electric Vol. II. It is seen running with a 4 SUB at the rear. Gosh! You are going to be building EMUs for years!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Mike G]

Hi John

 

The 'banana' shape is from the heat you've generated in doing all the add ons. When I do coaches like this  - ones that go into one colour, no lining - I use hair grips either side of the area being worked on. This acts as a slight heat sink to prevent to much heat being passed down the length of the coach side. Works for me.

 

Look forward to more updates.

 

regards

 

Mike

[Re6/6]

Thanks Mike.

 

This is what I like about being on here there's always good help.

 

It all makes sense now.

 

Onwards and upwards!

[Re6/6]

It is seen running with a 4 SUB at the rear. 

Well, if you P4 one or your 4-SUBs, you know that you have an open invitation!

 

 

 

Gosh! You are going to be building EMUs for years!

It doesn't bear thinking about!

[Strathwood]

How is the unit getting along now please?

 

Kevin

[Re6/6]

No further progress I'm afraid Kevin at the moment....As a late PM once said "events dear boy, events"!

 

Also there's the 4-LAV project, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82037-4-lav-sets-for-balcombe/  not to mention completion of the viaduct.

 

10800 has acquired a 'Silhouette' machine and he is experimenting with coach side production. After the CIT a PAN and PUL is planned using this method.

 

More hours in the day would be helpful!

[Colin parks]

No further progress I'm afraid Kevin at the moment....As a late PM once said "events dear boy, events"!

 

Also there's the 4-LAV project, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82037-4-lav-sets-for-balcombe/  not to mention completion of the viaduct.

 

10800 has acquired a 'Silhouette' machine and he is experimenting with coach side production. After the CIT a PAN and PUL is planned using this method.

 

More hours in the day would be helpful!

Wow John, a 6 PAN and 6 PUL too?!

 

I suppose you just have to have those units for Balcombe. Having a silhouette cutter will help of course, but in my experience cutting out the windows for an EMU is the easy bit! I reckon you will need a month per coach -depending on the level of detailing and amount of scratch-building involved.

 

There are RTR bogies in the form of Hornby ones to speed construction of those models up, but perhaps you will have to consider some form of mass-production for other common parts.

 

It is going to be an interesting project.

 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Re6/6]

........There are RTR bogies in the form of Hornby ones to speed construction of those models up, but perhaps you will have to consider some form of mass-production for other common parts.

 

 

I plan to use them, most certainly.

 

 

 

It is going to be an interesting project.

 

You could say that Colin!

 

Our requirements will be, amongst other stuff, at least one PUL & PAN set. Three B.Belles (one b/grey for mixed and later running). The CIT set that's underway. Two (better three) LAV sets (original) in the form of the Worsley Works etches.. One 'later' LAV set and quite a few BILs and HALs.

 

Then there's the 'oddities' that may come later...HAL/BIL hybrid..Tin HAL and maybe some SUB driving/trailers in the later LAV replacements. Also a 4-COR set that was occasionally used and not forgetting the short lived 4-PUL !

 

Plenty to be thinking about.....!

Edited May 18, 2014 by Re6/6

[Colin parks]

I plan to use them, most certainly.

 

 

You could say that Colin!

 

Our requirements will be, amongst other stuff, at least one PUL & PAN set. Three B.Belles (one b/grey for mixed and later running). The CIT set that's underway. Two (better three) LAV sets (original) in the form of the Worsley Works etches.. One 'later' LAV set and quite a few BILs and HALs.

 

Then there's the 'oddities' that may come later...HAL/BIL hybrid..Tin HAL and maybe some SUB driving/trailers in the later LAV replacements. Also a 4-COR set that was occasionally used and not forgetting the short lived 4-PUL !

 

Plenty to be thinking about.....!

Hi John,

 

The BILs and pre-war 2HALs are at least taken care of by Hornby for you! I presume the 6PAN and 6 PUL sets would be the Eastbourne service which divided at Lewes. (When I get around to modelling Newhaven Harbour in P4, a 6 PAN would be nice to run if not a bit before my chosen era. The thought of six months' work is a sobering thought though!) The oddities are going to be interesting if you intend to model such things as the war-damage replacement trailers for 2 BILs and so on. A later 4 LAV would be a very rare model to make. Perhaps using two Hornby motor coaches from their forthcoming 2 HAL model would be a short cut if not a bit expensive!

 

You never know though, one day in the future I might be able to help out with some stock for your exhibitions, once I get some P4 wheels. The 4 SUB would be right for Brighton excursions, but sadly my 4 COR is in blue not green!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Re6/6]

Thanks Colin that would be very welcome!

 

The 'oddities' will be down the line a bit!

 

Much to do before such frivolities!

 

I do have a BSL/Phoenix 3-COR/RES (one missing coach) aluminium kit from the 70s, which with one of the 6-PUL Pullmans would make the intriguing 4-PUL! 

 

We were contemplating using Kadee couplings (possibly one of the smaller versions than usual) internally on all sets, so that we can 'mix & match' to create the required sets. It would save making quite so many coaches!

 

The only sets that will be permanently coupled will of course be the BBs.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Re6/6

[Colin parks]

I've not got that far with coupling EMUs together John.

 

To be honest, There has never been space to run 'multiple' units on my 00 layout - apart from the two 2 HAPs which are linked by a wire with a magnet on the end (!)

 

If I can get P4 units to stay on the rails at all, I'm sure couplings won't be too hard to install. There are the near-scale Sergeant ones from America which I had fancied, being almost perfect for the 1951 stock and units built thereafter.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Re6/6]

........If I can get P4 units to stay on the rails at all, 

 

Of course you will!.....Oh ye of little faith....!

 

 

 

There are the near-scale Sergeant ones from America which I had fancied, being almost perfect for the 1951 stock and units built thereafter.

 

I've always been intrigued by these Colin. I'm waiting for somebody to try them out!

[HAB]

I have tried them - I am using them as the intermediate couplings on my 4CIG and Maunsell LH sets. I am also intending to use them between my BR units (EPBs and CIGs / MLVs)

 

 

Firstly, it has to be remembered that they are not capable of being uncoupled remotely - so they are not a "better Kadee".  They are uncoupled by holding a magnet over them which lifts a little steel ball inside them thus releasing the knuckle.  Secondly, when they are coupled, they work very well - there is no fore and aft slop, they transmit buffing forces perfectly with no rattle and they NEVER part accidentally.

 

In terms of how I get on with them...  It has to be said that they look amazing: they really are exact scale.  They come in varieties  but the type we need is a model of a US 11" buckeye - but they are modelled to 3.5mm to the foot so in 4mm they are pretty close to what we need.

 

They are relatively easy to assemble but you MUST follow the instructions to the letter - don't assume you know best. The US_style drag box they come with needs a bit of thought to mount at the correct level for our use.

 

In operation, they can be quite a fiddle - you have to lift the ball with the magnet (and that is not always 100% reliable) and open the knuckle, then you have to manually centre the coupling opposite its partner - there is a bit of wire on the end of the magnet for these last two functions.  Then you run the vehicles together, and if they are perfectly lined up, they will couple as if by magic. If they are not, then the knuckles will close and you will have to draw-off and start again.  It is a faff commensurate with "scale" three-link or screw couplings. And anyone you has experience with the prototype will remind you that coupling up with real Buckeyes is not always 100% successful every time - especially on curves or unlevel track.

 

A further complication concerns gangways - to get under them, the uncoupling magnet is equipped with a thin steel extension which is intended to carry the magnetic field to the couplings beneath the gangway.  This it does, but the field is much weakened increasing the unreliability of ball-lifting. And on Pullman type gangways (and there are no others in this context) the downward pointing "ears" on the bottom of the rubbing plate definitely get in the way.

 

My view?  If you are looking to just replace existing Kadees you will be disappointed. If you want great looking vehicles (which were fitted with buckeyes in real life) and they are intended to be uncoupled only occasionally in easy-to-get-to places, you should look into them.  I confess that my Bils / Hals etc will be fitted with Jacksons between the units - they will be split and joined regularly

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

 

[chrisf]

I did not see this thread when it began as I was away on holiday but boy do I like what I see now!  Cutting up coaches to produce EMUs or other coaches has an honourable pedigree, as those of us who are old enough to remember the Model Railway Constructor and Alan Williams will know.  He made a 4-CEP from 5 Kitmasters and some Plastikard back in 1961 and this project is such a natural successor.  It is good old fashioned MODELLING pure and simple.

 

Chris 

[Re6/6]

Thank you Howard. Some very enlightening experiences.

 

Do you get them from Andy Reichart (P87 Stores) in CA?

 

Thanks Chris.

 

Yes I do remember the Alan Williams article very well and I went as far as cutting up the Kitmaster sides and making the 'faces' but never got any further with them.

Oddly, I have just successfuly fleabayed a load of KM coaches/spares which included the said CEP pieces!

 

There is a satisfaction in cut'n'shut jobs (the old fashioned way!). My only thought is not to make too many mistakes with expensive Hornby Maunsells!

[Judge Dread]

I did not see this thread when it began as I was away on holiday but boy do I like what I see now!  Cutting up coaches to produce EMUs or other coaches has an honourable pedigree, as those of us who are old enough to remember the Model Railway Constructor and Alan Williams will know.  He made a 4-CEP from 5 Kitmasters and some Plastikard back in 1961 and this project is such a natural successor.  It is good old fashioned MODELLING pure and simple.

 

Chris 

I've still got the removed pages in a folder somewhere but where, that's the question, where indeed?

[bécasse]

However, I seem to remember that he didn't notice that CEPs and BEPs, unlike MkI loco hauled vehicles, had windows in both doors of the guard's vans.

 

Otherwise, they weren't at all bad. I remember seeing a set in action one Thursday evening on the Model Railway Club's OO test tracks at Keen House.

[Judge Dread]

I've still got the removed pages in a folder somewhere but where, that's the question, where indeed?

The beauty of being retired is time on your hands. Look what I have found, safely protected by a layer of dust.

It seems I don't have Part 1 but I do have parts 4 & 5 & 6.

Feb 1961, I was single in those long gone days.

[10800]

 

I've always been intrigued by these Colin. I'm waiting for somebody to try them out!

I've got some in my drawer John ...

[Strathwood]

Whatever happened to many of those fantastic prototype photographs we used to see from Alan Williams, it would be great to get them scanned from the original negs and made available again in larger format either in books or via the net.

 

Kevin