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Traeth Mawr -Building Coaches

00 Pre Grouping Late Victorian GWR Incursions Cambrian Railways




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#1 ChrisN

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 16:34

Traeth Mawr

 

My first love really is 009 although if pushed I may say railways of the late Victorian era.  I still intend to build the Traeth Mawr and Twill Ddu railway which runs from the coast up the Naf valley to the town of Twill Ddu where there is a slate mine.  There are exchange sidings for the slate in Traeth Mawr with the Cambrian Railway.  Traeth Mawr is 5 minutes by rail north of Barmouth and is a market town and seaside resort.

 

I had never really intended to build the Cambrian Station at Traeth Mawr unless it was part of a bigger layout with the narrow gauge as well but life has intervened.  The intervention is….. grand children.  The eldest is now nearly four and she has been told about Grand dad's railway.  There is no way that children of that age could be let near a 009 layout and as she is the daughter of my eldest son and I have two other sons either married or nearly married I am sure others will be on the way and if one is 'helping Grand dad' then the others will want to as well.  Grand children also mean that it must be a roundy roundy.

 

Therefore, I have decided to build a 00 layout which apart from any stock that I can build will also be able to run any R-T-R 4 or 6 wheel stock and maybe something bigger as well.  The track will be Peco 100 as I need to get something up and running.  To add to the fun it will have to be able to be taken down and put up as the railway room also doubles as a visitor's bedroom.  My son has just moved and they have a playroom which he has said that he would quite like me to be able to put my railway up in it.  This means it must be transportable.

 

Measuring up the bedroom and their playroom, I can have a layout of 9' x 4'.  My car is a Peugeot 308 SW and with the back down, I can get baseboards in of 3' x4' or 5' x 3'6".  These are maximum sizes.  Hopefully, they will be built in co-operation with my son's father-in-law who is an ex woodwork teacher and has a workshop in his garage.

 

Bored yet?

 

The year is 1895 although the calendar may say anything up to 1914 on it.  The Cambrian is running the line but has a few motive power problems.  (Basically there are no easy kits or R-T-R engines for the Cambrian and they will take me a while to build).  The GWR has therefore exercised its running power to run trains from Dolgelly down the branch to the main line.  However they do not stop at Barmouth but run onto the next station of Traeth Mawr.  This means the station has to have a bay platform as well as its goods shed and exchange siding.  I am assuming that I will have to scratchbuild most of the buildings.

 

The problem with Cambrian coast line stations is that they are long and thin so very difficult to depict without a massive layout.  However, it may mean that I am able to get at least the station forecourt, coal merchants and one road in the scenic section which should be the front three feet. 

 

I attach the track plan for your thoughts.

 

 

Nuthurst v4b.jpg

 

 

INDEX

 

Penlan pointed out on another thread that mine was now rather large.  It may seem egotistic to have an index but this thread has benefitted from a number of experienced and knowledgeable contributors who have added information concerning life and railways in the late 19th century.  It would be a shame if that information was 'lost in the fog'.  The index will happen slowly, as I want time to model and as always life will get in the way, and have two parts, hopefully with links to the posts, but if any are missing click on the 'Page' icon above and put the page number in when the 'Go to' function appears.  People have told me there is good stuff in this thread, mainly the historical stuff, and most of that is from outside contributors so please read and enjoy.

 

Modelling

Building Plans                                                  2

Baseboard                                                       2, 4, 12, 13, 21

Honeymoon Cottage                                       3, 15, 22, 25, 31, 79

First Class Coach                                            3, 6, 9, 10, 11

Parade                                                             3, 5, 8

Baseboard Legs                                              4, 7, 9

Painting Tweed                                                5, 9 12

Teacher's Gowns                                             7

Available Victorian Figures                              9

Coach Lighting                                                 10

Tweed Trial                                                      10, 11

Figures                                                             11, 12

2 plank wagons                                                 12, 13, 16

Hornby Clerestory Coach                                  15

Stadden Station Staff                                        16, 17

J15 and staff                                                      19

Seaham Tank                                                    20

Aston Goods                                                      20                                                                      

Cambrian Buffer Stops                                      40, 41, 88, 89

LNWR Kits                                                         22

Cambrian Coach discussion                              22

Chairs for the cottage                                         23, 24

Varnish discussion                                            23

Revised track plan                                            23

Cork laid                                                            24, 25

Types of controllers                                           25

Making coach roofs                                           25

Cottage sideboard                                             25

 

 

 

Shelter                                                              77, 82, 84, 90

Coach Lighting (again)                                          73

Platform Surface                                               77

Platform height                                                 75,76

Straw Boaters                                                  77, 82, 83, 84

Station building                                                77

6 wheel Coach wheels, cleminson etc            20 , 21, 77, 78

Spray painting primer                                       78

Welsh dresser                                                  78

Cutting point motor 'prongs'                              81

Trains Running                                                  83

517 discussion                                                  85

Cambrian Loco discussion                                85, 86

Parliamentary Coaches                                     87, 88, 89

Other 4 Wheel coaches                                     87, 88

 

 

Historical

 

Colours of Victorian Clothing                            13

Timetable 1895, discussion on WTT                13

Private Owner/Special Goods traffic                 14

Cambrian Wagon Running Numbers                 15

Historical Railway Staff Image Links                 16

Through Carriage List 1904                              18

Marshalling of through Coaches discussion     18

2 Plank wagon at Aberdovey                            18

Station Staff Numbers discussion                     18, 19

Spiers and Pond Refreshment Rooms              19

Working Time Table                                          20

Through Carriages                                            20, 21

Trevor Charlton Kits List                                    21

Six Wheel Drawings in Mags                             21

HMRS Coach drawings                                     21, 22

Cambrian Tickets                                               22, 23

Cottage Interiors and St Fagans                         26

 Welsh Housing                                                   26

Wash houses, outside privy etc,                        26, 27

Websites of Pictures of Barmouth, Dolgelley     27

Gas Works Dates                                               28

Coal for Traeth Mawr, where from with links      28

 

 

Front paths and roads                                        43, 44

 

 

MS&LR Coaches                                                   72

 

Victorian Prisoners, Prisons, Broad Arrow uniform 74, 75

Welsh dressers                                                        78, 79

2 plank wagons                                                        79

Larders in houses                                                     79, 80, 81

House internal layouts from Planning Drawings,      82

Fire Buckets                                                              83, 84

Tank Wagons                                                           84

Astons Advertising                                                    87

Cambrian Green                                                        89

Invisible Green                                                          89

Coach braking                                                          90


Edited by ChrisN, 09 December 2017 - 20:39 .

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#2 aberdare

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 18:42

Hi Chris

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses and it's good to see you make a start.

 

Many years ago I was thinking of modelling some of the rural stations on the Western side of Wales due to the variety of stock and buildings around there but obviously I didn't, partly I seem to remember was that I wanted a busier mainline.

 

As I enjoy scratch-building I will be watching your build with great interest.

 

Whatever you do enjoy yourself.

 

 

oops meant to give you the thumbs up (like) not the tick


Edited by aberdare, 07 February 2014 - 18:45 .

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#3 ChrisN

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 19:35

Jim,

Thanks, it will be the coast line but it was never very busy in the period I modelled but we shall see.  Lots of different wagons and coaches from the Cambrian, the GWR and maybe the LNWR.



#4 Donw

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 21:55

Interesting idea Chris. I believe LNWR coaches may have come down from Afon Wen to Barmouth and up to Barmouth from Welshpool as well as GWR through coaches. I think Dragon Models do some of the wagons in 4mm The single veranda Brake van would be best for your period.

Don


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#5 ChrisN

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 22:09

Don,

Thank you.  Your imput is always appreciated.

 

Dragon Models would be an etched brass kit.  Soldering kits is one thing I need to learn but I shall keep a list of what is available.  If I do not get to solder then I will be on the road to scratch building without a 2D cutter!



#6 acg_mr

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 11:06

Hi Chris, just followed your link from your post in the Lounge.

 

Great to see a thread, and love the ideas you have for the layout.

 

Now all we want are lots of Pictures!

 

All the best,

 

Al.


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#7 ChrisN

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 11:24

Hi Chris, just followed your link from your post in the Lounge.

 

Great to see a thread, and love the ideas you have for the layout.

 

Now all we want are lots of Pictures!

 

All the best,

 

Al.

 

Thanks Al,

There will be pictures once I have something to photograph.  I am seeing my son's father-in-law today, (there ought to be a name for the relationship between two F-i-L but there isn't),so hopefully we can discuss baseboards.  If we can come up with a plan and the track plan is not altered then I will start building soon and I will have something to photograph.

 

Lots of questions as I go on though.



#8 Isambard Kingdom Brunel

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:03

This sounds great Chris, My Grandsons love my layout, but, had to build a Hornby 4 x3 layout to run Thomas around. My BLT is not really to their liking. Amazing how fast Thomas can corner
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#9 ChrisN

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:12

Thanks Terry,

I am sure the most famous E2 in the world will make an appearance, although the most famous saddle tank 0-4-0 certainly will.  It will have to do both jobs so I am not sure if the buildings will be glued down or stuck will velcro or just placed.  Transpoting it will be fun too although I know that ths is always done for exhibitions I will have to get my head round doing it.



#10 corneliuslundie

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 16:39

If you are happy with plastic kits, there are models of 2 and 4-plank Cambrian wagons from Cambrian models (http://cambrianmodel..._kits.html#gwp, see the Pre-Grouping section) under Great Western Railway as well as the old white metal 2-plank from Model Wagon Co which may still be around.

 

No connection other as a satisfied customer.


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#11 ChrisN

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 17:26

Corneliuslundie,

Thank you.  I have one or two of the two plank version but the bigger one was not avaiable when I was at the last show where they were and I have not followed it up as I have been doing other things.

 

I intend to study the books I have for what wagons were on the trains and I am very interested in the discussion in 'Welcome to Pre-Grouping about how often foreign wagons turned up which may beuseful.

 

Coaches and locos will be the difficulty.  I have some Peter K ones which are brass and a brassmasters Cleminson but I realised the other night, no wheels.  I may find a way of glueing it together.

 

Any other sources of kits I would be interested in.  I will check out the Model Wagon Co.


Edited by ChrisN, 27 December 2015 - 11:01 .


#12 Donw

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 17:50

There is a wonderful picture of Morfa Mawdach (It may be in the Wild Swan book 2) showing a great variety of wagons in the loop of all sorts of railways.

Don


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#13 ChrisN

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 18:54

There is a wonderful picture of Morfa Mawdach (It may be in the Wild Swan book 2) showing a great variety of wagons in the loop of all sorts of railways.

Don

 

Don,

Thanks, I have just checked it.

 

I have just realsied I do not have Vol 1, probably because it was not on the coast, or worse I have it and cannot find it.  (I have C. C. Green's combined 1&2 and the separate versions as I thought they were different!)

 

Oh well, off to look on Ebay and see what's there.



#14 Donw

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 19:39

Volume 1 was the Line down to Aberystwyth Chris. Vol 2 was Up the coast to the bridge and up to Dolgelly sadly Mr Green died and vol 3 Barmouth to Pwlhelli will never appear.

Don


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#15 Gordon A

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 19:56

Peco Code 75 will look better.

 

Gordon A

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#16 ChrisN

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 20:48

Don,

Thanks, I think I was desperate to get to Barmouth so probably did not buy Vol 1 but am now on the look out as any information will be useful.

 

Gordon,

I am sure that you are right but I do have some very old stock and once I can get things running I do not want to find that I am having to re-wheel everything before it runs.  I have seen several layouts with code 100 which look fine.



#17 Jaz

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 00:36

This is new, :sungum:

 If you can fit in the room 9x4 and the in car can take 3x4 simples 3 of them. The smaller sizes makes it more manageable if you ever move. And fits in the car with more space to manoeuvre.

Don't forget photos.  :sungum:


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#18 ChrisN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 17:46

This is new, :sungum:

 If you can fit in the room 9x4 and the in car can take 3x4 simples 3 of them. The smaller sizes makes it more manageable if you ever move. And fits in the car with more space to manoeuvre.

Don't forget photos.  :sungum:

 

Jaz,

I know you are right and that is what I intended but when I drew it out the joins were under all the points so I have settled on 2 x 4ft 6".  The platforms is not that long but it will get a 5 coach train in it, no not 5 bogie coaches but 3 x 6 wheelers and 2 x 4 wheelers, so I cannot move the points and slip closer together and it is not long enough to move them further apart.

 

My room is 11ft 6" long and my sons room is at the minimum about 5ft so that is the restriction. 

 

Don't worry as soon as I have anything to photograph I will.  (Here are some pictures of plywood. ;) )


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#19 Jaz

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:35

I can understand the points are really important, they drive Kal bonkers when he has to cut out wood frame to accommodate. Shall look forward to picture....of plywood....9mm???


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#20 ChrisN

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 15:04

Baseboards

 

No one seems to have many comments about the track so I shall move onto the baseboards.  This does not mean if anyone still has comments on the track layout that I will ignore it.

 

My intention is that I use 9mm ply and brace it around the edges also with 6" of the same as I have seen that used and recommended on exhibition layouts as being easy to transport.

 

Jaz has asked about the boards being 3' x 4' but this will mean that the board joins are under the points, not a good idea.  I also wondered about having the front two boards 3' x 4' 6" so that the scenic area would be on the same boards.  This could be transported but it would make it more difficult to store when it is not up.  The boards will have dowel lugs to make sure they fit correctly together but the jury is still out how the boards will be attached to each other.  At the moment, it is between hinges with removable pins as per BRM 'First Layout' and toggle catches

 

To be transported they will have to be stacked.  My first thought was that the 6" deep sides would mean that they would stack over the scenery, then I realised as I lay awake one night that the sides would be laying on the tracks, not a good idea.  I know others use a solid backscene to keep various parts of the layout apart for transport but I am not sure that this would work for me.  I need to sides to be open so that stock etc can be reached.  Perhaps a support of some sort?

 

The type of support would also decide whether the buildings were permanently fixed or just positioned when in use.  Not just plonked down but bedded in, perhaps held with Velcro, just not stuck down.

 

Legs are another question.  I will probably need one section that is self-supporting that the others connect to.

 

Lots of ideas and questions.  Yes, I like making life difficult for myself but it will be worth it.

 

 


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#21 Isambard Kingdom Brunel

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 17:39

Once the layout is dismantled you could screw boards made from 9mm ply, you could use this to fasten all the boards together
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#22 ChrisN

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 21:55

Terry,

Thanks.

You mean have separate pieces that fit on the sides to keep them together but apart?  If I had dowel rods or something as spacers attached to the bottom of the boards to keep them apart that might work as well.  I would need to be able to be able to take them out separately and screw them together in the car.



#23 Isambard Kingdom Brunel

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 20:35

You could bolt an end board to each end of one baseboard then turn it over onto another then the scenery etc is protected
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#24 ChrisN

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 21:42

Terry,

Yes, thank you.  I will have to have a think and draw a plan.  I also need to measure the height of the car again, which I did originally and have written but neither my memory or the piece of paper is available at the moment. 

 

I will also have to have a think about the highest structure on the layout so I know how tall the ends have to be.  Opposite Barmouth there are some three storey terraces which I will copy or do something similar so that should give me an idea. 


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#25 aberdare

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 14:16

Chris

 

When I stored Hemyock I made sure that the tops of the baseboard faced each other and that the back of one lined up with the front of the other, that is hill (back of layout) over river and pasture ( front) and if I ever have to cut it and move again I will do the same.

 

Looking forward to seeing you make a start.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 00, Pre Grouping, Late Victorian, GWR Incursions, Cambrian Railways