ess1uk Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) just wondering when the 3 Freightliner container liveries below were in use? would they have been seen on the same train? Thanks in advance. Edited June 28, 2015 by ess1uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm not sure about dates but the double arrow were early ones, probably then the Limited. These were definitely on the same trains around 1971. Paul Bartlett has a photo of them mixed. The red and yellow was later, mid 1980s? I doubt if all three would have been on a train together, but the first two were certainly around grounded for use as stores when the later ones were in use. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 IIRC the red and yellow Freightliner livery was created at the same time as the Railfreight Triple Tone Grey and sectorisation livery, I think it was 1987, at the time Freightliner was part of the Railfreight Distribution portfolio. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The Hornby model 'represents' the earliest design of container, fitted with bottom-lift pockets, rather than Twistlocks. As such, only the livery on the centre container is correct for the type shown, and would have been seen until the earlier part of the 1970s at the latest. A local cricket club uses one as a store for rollers etc, though only traces of the livery survive. The other two date from the adoption of ISO norms for containers. The grey 'Freightliners Ltd' one is from the early 1970s, when Freightliner was part of the National Freight Corporation, and the red and yellow one to the late 1980s/early 1990s. There was an intermediate livery from the late 1970s, which was predominately red. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2014 The red and yellow one was in use (or possibly shown off) at an exhibition early in 1989. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The red and yellow one was in use (or possibly shown off) at an exhibition early in 1989. Was that the one at Cricklewood? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Yes, Paul Bartlett's site has pics of the ones shown at Cricklewood (and you'll see how not-like the real things those old Hornby tools look unfortunately!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2014 I've found the one at Cricklewood in Paul's photos http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/minilink/h212b5a14#h212b5a14 I also found this earlier one at Willesden in 1987 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/minilink/h212b5a14#h2839f3d2 For the record, this one from his collection, undated but I guess from the number it would be 1971, shows the first two types next to each other http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer/hc60e988#hc60e988 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 So when does the white with red triangle style box fit into this? The red triangle is more like the freightliner logo applied to their grey locomotives, but I always thought that first appeared early 80s so surely the yellow/red style above (being late 80s) should have been the new style to adopt at privetisation? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 There's a big of guesstimation here, but... Pretty sure that the Red/Yellow boxes date from when Freightliner was operated as part of RfD, the red/yellow diagonals are effectively parts of the red/yellow diamonds from the logo of the triple grey era. Fast forward to 1995 and RfD was split in two, Freightliner was spun off from RfD to become an independant company - they couldn't use the RfD image as RfD still existed as a standalone company at that time, so the natural thing was to reinstate their previous standalone image which was the red triangle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 So when does the white with red triangle style box fit into this? The red triangle is more like the freightliner logo applied to their grey locomotives, but I always thought that first appeared early 80s so surely the yellow/red style above (being late 80s) should have been the new style to adopt at privetisation? I had wondered that too as my Dad has the white and red containers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2014 The red and yellow livery was first shown to the public along with the then new sector liveries at Ripple Lane, 17th October 1987. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 As no-one else seems to have said it, the BR Freightliner concept was part of the Beeching Plan (1963) and the first containers in general use appeared in 1966 (as far as I recall) in the logo plus double arrow livery. You could still see examples running in this livery in the late 70's for sure, from recollection of work I was doing at Ipswich then, which could not have been before that. Of course, they may have been on their way to scrap but they seemed to be going into Felixstowe. By then though, the F Ltd logo was dominant. (Containerisation was invented originally by the US Navy and commercialised from the mid-fifties, by an American (whose name escapes me), and then expanded vastly by Jim Sherwood, who, with a partner who later disappeared under allegedly "mysterious" circumstances, created SeaContainers in the late 50's/early 60's, who ran the ECML for a while as GNER, and who still own and run the Orient Express plus over 20 of the world's top hotels and the freehold on a large number of ports. The container division was merged with GE Finance some years ago, hence SeaCo containers were reliveried to GE SeaCo.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) which of these http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/1980s-containers.php would best suit the red/yellow frieghtliner livery?? Edited May 26, 2015 by ess1uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Probably the first one, based on the logo panel.I think the real ones have modern bevelled ribs and door ribs which are differences... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 And don't forget the air piped ex LMS BG bogie parcels van acting as guards van, usually behind the locomotive. This was due to a dispute that guards would not occupy the rear cab of the loco. This was later resolved, don't know the date - can anybody advise ? Later (or was it earlier ?) a container based brake van was built - but was soon abandoned due to the bouncy ride. I run a 9 car train of mixed grey uns with a Bachmann blue LMS BG brake. Brit15 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 And don't forget the air piped ex LMS BG bogie parcels van acting as guards van, usually behind the locomotive. This was due to a dispute that guards would not occupy the rear cab of the loco. This was later resolved, don't know the date - can anybody advise ? Later (or was it earlier ?) a container based brake van was built - but was soon abandoned due to the bouncy ride. I run a 9 car train of mixed grey uns with a Bachmann blue LMS BG brake. Brit15 It would appear that it was 1968 when agreement was reached about guards being allowed in the rear cabs, rendering the brake van superfluous. There's been quite a lot of discussion on here before about this. The attached link is to a previous thread, including identities of vehicles used:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8512-freightliner-ex-passenger-stock-brakevans-in-the-1960s/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 As no-one else seems to have said it, the BR Freightliner concept was part of the Beeching Plan (1963) and the first containers in general use appeared in 1966 (as far as I recall) in the logo plus double arrow livery. You could still see examples running in this livery in the late 70's for sure, from recollection of work I was doing at Ipswich then, which could not have been before that. Of course, they may have been on their way to scrap but they seemed to be going into Felixstowe. By then though, the F Ltd logo was dominant. (Containerisation was invented originally by the US Navy and commercialised from the mid-fifties, by an American (whose name escapes me), and then expanded vastly by Jim Sherwood, who, with a partner who later disappeared under allegedly "mysterious" circumstances, created SeaContainers in the late 50's/early 60's, who ran the ECML for a while as GNER, and who still own and run the Orient Express plus over 20 of the world's top hotels and the freehold on a large number of ports. The container division was merged with GE Finance some years ago, hence SeaCo containers were reliveried to GE SeaCo.) The concept of Containerisation was started before Nationalisation with dedicated containers and flats; the ultimate development of the traditional Containers was the Speedfreight containers and the dedicated Condor service! The traditional containers were also used for Continental traffic! Freightliner trains as known today started in 1965 with there being the later build of sets of four ferry fitted wagons for the service to Paris via the train ferry! Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Life And Times - Freightliner by Michael Collins gives 15th Nov 1965 as the day for the first *revenue earning* Freightliner service, and even this was in doubt until the last minute due to union negotiations. According to Collins, of the 39 boxes carried on the 13 bogie flats only 3 were actually carrying a commercial load, the others were either empty or carried short lengths of old rail to simulate a more fully loaded service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The concept of Containerisation was started before Nationalisation with dedicated containers and flats; the ultimate development of the traditional Containers was the Speedfreight containers and the dedicated Condor service! The traditional containers were also used for Continental traffic! Freightliner trains as known today started in 1965 with there being the later build of sets of four ferry fitted wagons for the service to Paris via the train ferry! If you wanted to take it far enough, the concept of a simple box that can be transhipped between a boat and tramway or horse drawn wagon predates the invention of steam railways... Standardising sizes, strength and fittings and giving it a global reach was a much later thing though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Returning to Life And Times - Freightliner; there is a great photo from a modelling perspective on page 113 of the book. This shows 47206 heading the 1345 Aberdeen to Inverness passenger service on 14th May 1984. The main part of the train comprises 5 Mk2A/B coaches but between them and the loco is a bogie flat with 2 Freightliner containers. These are for onward transport to Wick and Thurso. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Probably the first one, based on the logo panel. I think the real ones have modern bevelled ribs and door ribs which are differences... cheers. they will still be closer than the Hornby ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) cheers. they will still be closer than the Hornby ones. Definately! You might be able to get closer using a modern all corrugated box and cutting logo panels into it...? Couple more pics that might help here courtesy Tom Smith's efforts - the red one is from the same batch and obviously never got the red/yellow repaint: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/The-Humble-Box/TheHumbleBox-Operator/Container-operators-F/FLLU-Freightliners-Limited/ Edited May 27, 2015 by Glorious NSE 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Definately! You might be able to get closer using a modern all corrugated box and cutting logo panels into it...? Couple more pics that might help here courtesy Tom Smith's efforts - the red one is from the same batch and obviously never got the red/yellow repaint: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/The-Humble-Box/TheHumbleBox-Operator/Container-operators-F/FLLU-Freightliners-Limited/ dont know about cutting anything. happy to paint though to get close. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The original Freightliner logo appears to have been the word Freightliner to the right of the old "door to door" logo, although there was also a door to door logo with "liner train" to its right. The caption says that was in bauxite and yellow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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