RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) OK,. The gauntlet is down. Discussing details of a signalling nature following a recent question, it became clear that there could be some interest in gathering together reference information into a topic thread to aid the adding of these often neglected little details to layouts. As an opener I am going to start with the string that ties it all together. From the earliest days of the railway telegraphs in the 1840s there has been a need to pass electricity from one part of the system to another. The telegraph pole route is the most obvious sign of this to start with right up to the blue diesel era in some places but from the earliest days cables were experimented with. The South Eastern Railway reputedly trialled a submarine telegraph cable at Folkestone in 1849. As more equipment became electrically worked or monitored the need for cabling right down to the track increased, resulting in the mass of orange pipes we see today. Please try to keep to the topic where if possible. I will start a couple of other threads to cover other equipment on the track and around it. Feel free to post your own pictures but please add date and place information as there are a lot of local quirks due to company history and progression of standards over the years. Edited April 18, 2014 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'll get it going with a twofer, or possibly even more when you look at the rest of the shot. This was a picture that didn't get printed, coming to light recently when scanning stuff from an old file which hadn't been opened for years. It was taken almost 50 years ago in the summer of 1964, the days when there were so many trainspotters that BR used to run special trains from Birmingham to Crewe Works during the summer shut-down. This is the return trip coming into the tunnel by Monument Lane shed. You couldn't take it now because in addition to it being electrified with MAS, it's under the NIA. It demonstrates my policy that there are few useless photos, bad ones often show things of historical or technical interest. Photo Copyright C E Steele The two for the price of one are the newly laid concrete trough for the New St Resignalling project, complete with odd spare troughs and lids lying around, but more interestingly some LMS boxing on posts. It does show on other pictures but isn't that often noticed. Thanks to the help of a member on here I now have some details of the stuff as I want to build a length myself, so will post details when I get round to making it. Going back and breaking my own rule for the thread, Michael would like those 16 tonners in the scrap siding which was formerly the coal yard and Malt House siding. Further on there is a nice possibly LMS vintage 4-aspect colour light. I believe it was put up around 1947 but can't confirm that, and what looks like an asbestos cement sheet hut. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 And following on, how those concrete trough routes were laid, in Welsh. Flint circa early 80s. Merf. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2014 Nice shot Merf, hope that's a rubber hammer!! Plenty of allowance for the collapsing ballast shoulder and "Spoil to Bank Cable Route" ballast cleans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Always a better job with a former 4 track section. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 Next up we have a combination of restricted space and Urban Grot. The photo was taken at Soho Road in April 1981, the signal being the exit from the Soho Pool Branch. Where there wasn't enough space at the bottom of the bank for concrete troughing, Cement Asbestos troughs mounted on posts (CATOP) or wall hangers were used. Photograph Copyright C E Steele As you can see these were fragile and prone to bricking, especially where there was another good target such as the ground signal. In later years this material was replaced by Glass-fibre Reinforced Plastic troughing. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Pole route at Stainforth Jct Eastern Region, February 1980. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 TRACKWORK 462.jpg Pole route at Kirksandall Jct Eastern Region, February 1980. 'Like' is not really enough for that one Mick. Was that pole at a place which the whole route had been split at some time? I don't know the history of the area. It shows how to do J-bolts on a terminating wire and cross wires to other places. What intrigues me is that it has double sided arms bolted together. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 'Like' is not really enough for that one Mick. Was that pole at a place which the whole route had been split at some time? I don't know the history of the area. It shows how to do J-bolts on a terminating wire and cross wires to other places. What intrigues me is that it has double sided arms bolted together. Eric I too know little off the area, all I recall is a mate and I were out with our cameras to catch the passing of Stainforth signalbox. I took the picture knowing I was never likerly to see the likes of it again. Attached is the next "Frame". 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 Doncaster PSB came into use July 1979 IIRC. Kirk Sandall lasted a further 7 months, which my account for wires on one side but not the other. It may have been a temporary fringe box during that period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Doncaster PSB came into use July 1979 IIRC. Kirk Sandall lasted a further 7 months, which my account for wires on one side but not the other. It may have been a temporary fringe box during that period. Yes, i recall Stainforth fringed to the PSB, Your explanation makes sense and seems logical. Not the same heading, I also have numerious detail photo's of mechanical signalling, rodding and wire runs etc. possibly worthy of a seperate thread. Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 Thanks Mick. I am thinking of setting up some other threads depending on the reaction to this one. I was looking at Signals and Point Operation as a couple covering much of the art of getting the railway to work, visibly at least. Eric 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 For those modelling modern-ish image, here is the page from the "Crewe Stores" catalogue for troughing http://www.unipartrail.com/WebPDF/StockPDF/Concrete%20Troughing.pdf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 A couple more of mine showing how the troughs came off the train before laying. Not seen this on any layouts (yet !) Notice those laid on the shoulder or wall to allow the trench to be dug. Merf. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Thanks for starting this thread. Should prove a useful resource. Pete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 A couple more of mine showing how the troughs came off the train before laying. Not seen this on any layouts (yet !) Notice those laid on the shoulder or wall to allow the trench to be dug. Merf. They seem to be coming on pallets nowadays Merf, and the old recovered ones are also palletised at site ready to be collected. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2014 Some drawings of older point machines. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 Pallet supply became the norm when they started coming from contractors outside BR. Taunton and Newton Heath used to load in open wagons and send to the siding of your choice. Very convenient as they were ready to go to site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Lifted from a text book, but explains how the wres are arranged in a pole route.attachment=4894:Copy of TELEGRAPH POLE 9.jpg] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Copy of TELEGAPH POLE 9.jpg Lifted from a text book, but explains how the wres are arranged in a pole route.attachment=4894:Copy of TELEGRAPH POLE 9.jpg] This is from a lineman's notebook. Theory goes out the window... Edit to add.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/7335295096/in/photolist-cbciF7-cXMQxY/ Edited April 17, 2014 by LNERGE 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Richard, that's what I like to see, how it was really done, not that, from a model making point of view it would make much differance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Then there were the long top arm with 6 pots, the outer ones in red for the 240. Out of reach of the lineman ! Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Richard, that's what I like to see, how it was really done, not that, from a model making point of view it would make much differance. Unless it was somewhere where there were some Ites up there. I've seen blue, orange and black Ites. Only good prototype photo's would tell you and how many people would actually know an insulated linewire from a normal open cadmium copper wire? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 The joys of pole work. Sitting up there in the sleet with the MOX iron spluttering away at the other end of the arm. Alf Ansafety, who's 'e when e's at 'ome. Actually it was refitting the pole behind the box in this shot http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrthl1100.htm into a terminal pole post-electrification of the Trent Valley. It hadn't been done properly at the time and the old arms were falling off because they still had spindles instead of J-Bolts. Looks like I made a reasonable job of it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hmm. interesting thread developing. I've built loads of model signals and I'm only just getting into things like representations of contact boxes etc as fittings on the signals. Although commercial castings are available for pole fittings and generic "relay cabinets", other electrical stuff like telephone and battery cabinets are needed too. I have drawings for LMS/BR(M) ones...maybe it's time for some 7mm castings.... .... Jon F. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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