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WCML class 50's


skiddaw

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...I'm in agreement re Kingmoor Nidge.

 

Dave

 

 

Pretty certain that the last photos are Kingmoor. Look at the military style buildings in the background, is that part of the Longtown complex?

 

Regards

 

Ian

Definitely Kingmoor. The buildings at the back of this picture are at 14MU, the MoD storage depot, Longtown is a few miles further north, and not visible from Kingmoor yard.

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May the 5th 1974. The Electric Scots are coming. I still remember the publicity blurb. London to Glasgow in 5 hours. Shaved 1 hour off the previous best time

 

I remember going south to London on a school trip in April 73. It was a Sunday. Class 50 and mk2 non air conditioned stock. Went out via Paisley Gilmour Street (which was ironic as that's where we just came from) Dalry, Kilmarnock , the South Western route to Carlisle , then I think the S&C. Truly the long way round! But it shows got an excuse to run 50s in Ayrshire lines!

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People have been quoting 'about 10' or 'about 12' as staying on the LM.  It was actually more than you remember.  50s moved a few at a time until the split was 35-15, WR-LMR.  This ratio lasted for quite a while before the 15 also moved South.

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I've seen that comment before, but...

 

I've got only 12 left after 11 May 1974 (from the MRP Profile Mag). Those remaining, in order of leaving, were given as 21, 35, 41, 45, 10, 22, 29, 08, 12, 31, 34, and 36.

 

However '17 was still around in Jan 75, from the photo of it at Waverley I posted above. Any others?

 

Edit: looks like the other two still on the LMR in 1975 were '06 and '40, making 15 in all. I should know better than to trust an 1980's CJM mag......

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According to my 1975 Locoshed Book (allocations as of November 1974) the following were still allocated to Crewe Diesel

 

50006/08/10/12/17/21/22/29/31/34/35/36/40/41/45

 

that makes 35 WR and 15 LMR.

 

Also seen at Newcastle early 80s on proving trips from Doncaster works where they were being refurbished.

 

I have an excellent pic of an ex works 50028 Tiger and a train of Mk1 ecs at Newcastle Central.

 

Good excuse to have one included on a North Eastern layout of that era. 

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Edit : just after I pressed 'post reply' a light bulb went on in my head... I'm sure I read somewhere that towards the end of the transfer period from the LMR to WR, Crewe wanted to keep a few of their '50s back to continue working north of the wired section of the WCML. I'm sure the WR would have been very happy to send the lot back in one fell swoop but they were stuck with them!

So why did the LMR consider them as worthwhile enough to want to keep some, yet the WR wanted got rid of? Also why did maintenance get transferred from Crewe to Doncaster & not to Swindon?

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It was part of a plan to gain some efficiencies by handling locos of the same maker in one place. Doncaster was for English Electric locos.

 

As to the LMR holding on to some, I don't think all the 87s had been delivered by May 74, and weren't some of the 86s being fitted with flexicoil suspension around that time too?

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Not strictly true as Crewe kept class 40 overhauls to the end, and up to late 1970s Derby hosted the class 20 overhauls. It was only the 50s that moved from Crewe. Conspiracy theorists may believe that the decision to close Swindon had already been made by the mid 1970s.

 

The LMR decision to keep a fraction of the class 50 fleet in effect prolonged the life of the Westerns in a bizarre consequence. I remember that class 50s were rarely pressed into service on freight turns until after the Wessies had gone and the WR had the whole fleet. In 1974/5 there was a severe motive power shortage on the WR for type 4 diesels, so Crewe must have really needed their 50s.

 

Neil

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I've seen that given as the reason, but it must have just applied to the co-co EE locos with similar bogies. Certainly its right that Doncaster didn't do much with class 40s, though Derby helped Crewe out with them in this time period. Another contributing reason for the 50 move might be Crewe starting up with the HST construction.

 

Can anyone recommend a good book on the BREL period?

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. I remember that class 50s were rarely pressed into service on freight turns until after the Wessies had gone and the WR had the whole fleet. In 1974/5 there was a severe motive power shortage on the WR for type 4 diesels, so Crewe must have really needed their 50s.

 

Neil

But why would you want to use 100mph diesels on freight services? It would seem to be a waste of their capabilities.

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Ah but they did, rarely of course, but the LMR did the same too as we discussed on MGR trains.

Motive power shortages or deliberate diagrams?

Neil

Deliberate diagrams at first, until they were found out to be rubbish. Then very much indeed shortage of motive power. Also once you managed to get two to workin multiple only idiots would split them!

In my days,the 50's really were a pain!

 

Mike

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Traveling between Manchester and Lancaster fairly frequently in the later half of 1977 it was still possible to occasionally find a Class 50 on the early afternoon Manchester Victoria to Glasgow portion (which then included the buffet/restaurant car) although Class 47's were the more common motive power.

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But why would you want to use 100mph diesels on freight services? It would seem to be a waste of their capabilities.

 

If a job is booked for a type 4 and only a 50 was available it would be used, especially if it helped to get the loco where it was needed elsewhere. Seeing a 100mph loco on a trundling freight might look like a waste of power but it was all part of the big picture at the time. Some may have been on restricted workings too which explains seeing such locos on (seemingly) menial duties. Many's the time we'd use a 50 on a single van for the Padd - Aylesbury papers if nothing else was available that night...  ;)

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