Mike at C&M Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 ...I'm in agreement re Kingmoor Nidge. Dave Pretty certain that the last photos are Kingmoor. Look at the military style buildings in the background, is that part of the Longtown complex? Regards Ian Definitely Kingmoor. The buildings at the back of this picture are at 14MU, the MoD storage depot, Longtown is a few miles further north, and not visible from Kingmoor yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted September 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 25, 2014 May the 5th 1974. The Electric Scots are coming. I still remember the publicity blurb. London to Glasgow in 5 hours. Shaved 1 hour off the previous best time I remember going south to London on a school trip in April 73. It was a Sunday. Class 50 and mk2 non air conditioned stock. Went out via Paisley Gilmour Street (which was ironic as that's where we just came from) Dalry, Kilmarnock , the South Western route to Carlisle , then I think the S&C. Truly the long way round! But it shows got an excuse to run 50s in Ayrshire lines! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 and they were a revelation. Dave Agreed - always felt that they sprinted away from the frequent-ish station stops on the Waterloo - Exeter service in later years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6975 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 People have been quoting 'about 10' or 'about 12' as staying on the LM. It was actually more than you remember. 50s moved a few at a time until the split was 35-15, WR-LMR. This ratio lasted for quite a while before the 15 also moved South. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted September 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2014 I've seen that comment before, but... I've got only 12 left after 11 May 1974 (from the MRP Profile Mag). Those remaining, in order of leaving, were given as 21, 35, 41, 45, 10, 22, 29, 08, 12, 31, 34, and 36. However '17 was still around in Jan 75, from the photo of it at Waverley I posted above. Any others? Edit: looks like the other two still on the LMR in 1975 were '06 and '40, making 15 in all. I should know better than to trust an 1980's CJM mag...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw1 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 According to my 1975 Locoshed Book (allocations as of November 1974) the following were still allocated to Crewe Diesel 50006/08/10/12/17/21/22/29/31/34/35/36/40/41/45 that makes 35 WR and 15 LMR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted September 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2014 Ok thanks, I got there the long way.... but I did find this on the way https://www.flickr.com/photos/dodger5450/10744400873 and some final Crewe Works visits in 1975 and 1976 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/5408025817 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/5408025817 https://www.flickr.com/photos/53299842@N08/6327525733 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 According to my 1975 Locoshed Book (allocations as of November 1974) the following were still allocated to Crewe Diesel 50006/08/10/12/17/21/22/29/31/34/35/36/40/41/45 that makes 35 WR and 15 LMR. Also seen at Newcastle early 80s on proving trips from Doncaster works where they were being refurbished. I have an excellent pic of an ex works 50028 Tiger and a train of Mk1 ecs at Newcastle Central. Good excuse to have one included on a North Eastern layout of that era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2014 Edit : just after I pressed 'post reply' a light bulb went on in my head... I'm sure I read somewhere that towards the end of the transfer period from the LMR to WR, Crewe wanted to keep a few of their '50s back to continue working north of the wired section of the WCML. I'm sure the WR would have been very happy to send the lot back in one fell swoop but they were stuck with them! So why did the LMR consider them as worthwhile enough to want to keep some, yet the WR wanted got rid of? Also why did maintenance get transferred from Crewe to Doncaster & not to Swindon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted October 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2014 It was part of a plan to gain some efficiencies by handling locos of the same maker in one place. Doncaster was for English Electric locos. As to the LMR holding on to some, I don't think all the 87s had been delivered by May 74, and weren't some of the 86s being fitted with flexicoil suspension around that time too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted October 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2014 Not strictly true as Crewe kept class 40 overhauls to the end, and up to late 1970s Derby hosted the class 20 overhauls. It was only the 50s that moved from Crewe. Conspiracy theorists may believe that the decision to close Swindon had already been made by the mid 1970s. The LMR decision to keep a fraction of the class 50 fleet in effect prolonged the life of the Westerns in a bizarre consequence. I remember that class 50s were rarely pressed into service on freight turns until after the Wessies had gone and the WR had the whole fleet. In 1974/5 there was a severe motive power shortage on the WR for type 4 diesels, so Crewe must have really needed their 50s. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted October 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2014 I've seen that given as the reason, but it must have just applied to the co-co EE locos with similar bogies. Certainly its right that Doncaster didn't do much with class 40s, though Derby helped Crewe out with them in this time period. Another contributing reason for the 50 move might be Crewe starting up with the HST construction. Can anyone recommend a good book on the BREL period? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2014 . I remember that class 50s were rarely pressed into service on freight turns until after the Wessies had gone and the WR had the whole fleet. In 1974/5 there was a severe motive power shortage on the WR for type 4 diesels, so Crewe must have really needed their 50s. Neil But why would you want to use 100mph diesels on freight services? It would seem to be a waste of their capabilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted October 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2014 Ah but they did, rarely of course, but the LMR did the same too as we discussed on MGR trains. Motive power shortages or deliberate diagrams? Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 But why would you want to use 100mph diesels on freight services? It would seem to be a waste of their capabilities. The 50's were designed to be a "Maid of all work". Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Ah but they did, rarely of course, but the LMR did the same too as we discussed on MGR trains. Motive power shortages or deliberate diagrams? Neil Deliberate diagrams at first, until they were found out to be rubbish. Then very much indeed shortage of motive power. Also once you managed to get two to workin multiple only idiots would split them! In my days,the 50's really were a pain! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefreight Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Traveling between Manchester and Lancaster fairly frequently in the later half of 1977 it was still possible to occasionally find a Class 50 on the early afternoon Manchester Victoria to Glasgow portion (which then included the buffet/restaurant car) although Class 47's were the more common motive power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 But why would you want to use 100mph diesels on freight services? It would seem to be a waste of their capabilities. If a job is booked for a type 4 and only a 50 was available it would be used, especially if it helped to get the loco where it was needed elsewhere. Seeing a 100mph loco on a trundling freight might look like a waste of power but it was all part of the big picture at the time. Some may have been on restricted workings too which explains seeing such locos on (seemingly) menial duties. Many's the time we'd use a 50 on a single van for the Padd - Aylesbury papers if nothing else was available that night... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 ...reliability plays a part too...if I was the loco controller on duty at the time and doubted the reliability of a particular type then I would take every opportunity to keep them out of the way. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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