The Black Hat Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I asked Graham what he felt the future may bring in terms of market trends and he replied "We have a commitment to a quality product at a reasonable price and we listen to modellers through wishlists, direct approaches and at shows, with a good measure of gut feeling and give them what they want if it's feasible. A loco, for example the Q6, which has limited geographical usage and livery variation is unlikely to attract sufficient buyers". The Q6... limited georgraphy? I travelled everywhere from Scotland to Hull and then over across to Leeds, Sheffield and Doncaster... Forgive for thinking that the E4, J11, D11/2 and C-class all have similar areas of georgraphical coverage (if not smaller) and have been given favour by Bachmann. Some have not been as high in wishlists as the Q6 either. The core of the demand for the Q6 is for Bachmann to be the ones to make such a freight workhorse as they have the record, means and ability to do it best. I certainly want Bachmann to be the ones to do this and would buy many. This does read and feel like everything ex-NER is being written off. If thats the case... I may as well give it all up now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Is the E4 that people are talking about the GER one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Meanwhile as regards the general statement... Bachmann should be applauded for keeping in contact with their core customers. The fact that RM Web has been such a useful tool in getting the message across also speaks volumes of being able to reach them, so well done to Andy and the team for hard work. Yes a lot of us are aware that prices for the models have risen, that is is burning ever larger holes in pockets and wallets, but Bachmann are explaining that they are still doing what they set out to do 25 years ago and keep true to the methods that have brought them such success. I think its great they have come forward and told us what it is all about and how they continue to strive to meet those same ideals they have and bring new inovating products to the market. Heres to continued success for Bachmann and its team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Is the E4 that people are talking about the GER one? LBSCR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2014 In my post I was talking about the GER type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Not just me confused then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 This does read and feel like everything ex-NER is being written off. If thats the case... I may as well give it all up now... Or have a go at a kit? This at least means I can crack on with my Alexander Models kit without worrying about an RTR version! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only 3 new tooling items in each scale that seems a reduction on previous years also they didn't rule out anymore 25kv overhead models either! ( although to be fair they didn't rule them in)! Regarding the price rises I only have so much spend and that hasn't changed so less product for me over the coming years. Rather have the stability rather than another Hornby situation though. Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughnut Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 My God..prices are eye wateringly high now! I'm glad that I've got most of the models I want now, because if I was starting my collection again, I'd have to take up another, cheaper hobby. My sympathy is for the youngsters who want to get into model railways. And I suppose stockists will be given more dictats as to how cheaply they can sell Bachmann models, again. What a shame this has become a rich man's hobby. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Time for many of us to revisit our existing collections and upgrade them. I am lucky having purchased quite a bit of stock over the last few years with lots of projects to finish. One thing is for shore with price increases like these less items will purchased and the weaker manufactures will be forced out of business, so maybe that is the plan. Recent developments in 3d printing might well be a way for the modeller have good models at lower prices with small runs beimg made to order to keep costs down This already starting to happen in the model Underground train market and I am sure some enterprising modeller might come up with 3Dprinted mechanisms in the the future given the expanding range of materials that are one being used. Bring it on that is what I say! Railway modeling is far from dead however..........! Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only 3 new tooling items in each scale that seems a reduction on previous years also they didn't rule out anymore 25kv overhead models either! ( although to be fair they didn't rule them in)! Regarding the price rises I only have so much spend and that hasn't changed so less product for me over the coming years. Rather have the stability rather than another Hornby situation though. Cheers Mark When I was a young lad!!!!! We were LUCKY to get 1 item a year!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 It was good to meet Andy and the Editors of all the mainstream model railway magazines, (and right on our doorstep, too) for a very frank and enlightening presentation. Strange to think that the only similar meetings in recent years were with Hornby at Broadstairs and they ceased a couple of years ago. Bachmann went more deeply into the issues with Chinese manufacturing but some similar comments about such things as labour costs and the CNY holiday were certainly made at Broadstairs several years ago. With Bachmann's comments about the costs of sprung buffers etc, it is easy to see why 'Design Clever' came about although no one actually uttered those words today. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 For the record, E4 being produced is LBSCR and E4 I was talking of was GER. Lovely little 2-4-0 workhorse that a number of us LNER nuts would snap up no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2014 Dual thanks here I think - firstly to Bachmann for their openness and taking the time to explain and secondly to Andy for his very informative and readable report of what they said - far, far better than a simple announcement of an xx% price increase. I also echo Ian's comment about Andy's presence at the briefing - an indication of the respect in which this forum is held by Bachmann and indeed a respect which is fully justified by Andy's OP. And as for the price increases themselves - well if Bachmann continue to deliver the realism and fidelity in their products then it is hardly surprising that their prices will have to rise, echoing Adams 442T above, it is not right that people should be paid a pittance for making our toys and I was glad to read of the various improvements in their conditions which will be emerging over the coming years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2014 The Q6... limited georgraphy? I travelled everywhere from Scotland to Hull and then over across to Leeds, Sheffield and Doncaster... Forgive for thinking that the E4, J11, D11/2 and C-class all have similar areas of georgraphical coverage (if not smaller) and have been given favour by Bachmann. Some have not been as high in wishlists as the Q6 either. The core of the demand for the Q6 is for Bachmann to be the ones to make such a freight workhorse as they have the record, means and ability to do it best. I certainly want Bachmann to be the ones to do this and would buy many. This does read and feel like everything ex-NER is being written off. If thats the case... I may as well give it all up now... Have to agree with this post. Firstly though let's congratulate Bachmann on the way that they approached this with a full and open explanation. While 20% increases are not good! you can at least see where they are coming from. This contrasts sharply with Hornbys approach, where the lack of information gives rise to speculation and claims of profiteering. As to the Q6 being of low potential because of its limited geographical coverage, really? J15 s and SE&CR C Classes were seen all over the country then? I'm not an NER modeller but I was hoping for something Scottish next time. On this basis I might as well give up too! I hope it's another one of their red herrings, after all they once famously quoted that a Blue Pullman would never be made. Good job they did it when they did though as I suspect it would now be priced out of the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Or have a go at a kit? This at least means I can crack on with my Alexander Models kit without worrying about an RTR version! Sorry - I dont see why everything ex-NER must come in kit form. My efforts would be no where near as good as RTR can make today and it soon becomes more expensive, hence the clamour for Bachmann to be the company of choice. If anything its a massive vote of confidence in them over all others. If costs are going up, my spending will be going down but not so if they went and made what I, and many others are after. But this isnt the time for place to debate this again. Honestly feels like my football team just got relegated though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well done to Bachmann for being so open and honest, in stark contrast to the mess Hornby have made of things. Given how good a model it is, I don't think c£145 for a Derby Lightweight is excessive - I paid much more than that for a Lima/Craftsman conversion long before Bachmann announced their model. Their Mark I stock is still vastly cheaper (and better) than Hornby's ridiculously overpriced (given how wrong they are in shape) Gresley corridor stock. Incidentally, I have just paid £36 for a Mark I TSO in blue/grey on eBay as they are out of stock at present. The really big message for me is what might seem like a small point: ditch the sprung buffers - they are a complete waste of time and money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 My God..prices are eye wateringly high now! I'm glad that I've got most of the models I want now, because if I was starting my collection again, I'd have to take up another, cheaper hobby. My sympathy is for the youngsters who want to get into model railways. And I suppose stockists will be given more dictats as to how cheaply they can sell Bachmann models, again. What a shame this has become a rich man's hobby. Dave If you want to see some eye watering prices take a look at Hattons Lilliput H0 steam loco prices and compare those prices to similar UK Loco types! EGs 2-6-2T locos £143 to £201, 2-10-0 tender loco £250. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2014 It was good to meet Andy and the Editors of all the mainstream model railway magazines, (and right on our doorstep, too) for a very frank and enlightening presentation. Strange to think that the only similar meetings in recent years were with Hornby at Broadstairs and they ceased a couple of years ago. Bachmann went more deeply into the issues with Chinese manufacturing but some similar comments about such things as labour costs and the CNY holiday were certainly made at Broadstairs several years ago. With Bachmann's comments about the costs of sprung buffers etc, it is easy to see why 'Design Clever' came about although no one actually uttered those words today. CHRIS LEIGH One very big difference though. These Broadstairs meetings were amongst the model railway industry who only passed on tidbits to the general public as seemed necessary. This is a very open discussion with Bachmann where I assume all details are in the public domain immediately. A commendably fresh approach by Bachmann to communicate with us, their customers. No ridiculous embargoes either which I always felt treated customers with a degree of contempt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 As to the Q6 being of low potential because of its limited geographical coverage, really? ...I hope it's another one of their red herrings, after all they once famously quoted that a Blue Pullman would never be made. I will pray to any god, anyone mentions to me in the hope that what you say there is true.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 "The [J15] loco's now in bits for an overhaul and there hadn't been an approach from anywhere else to record the information." Am I reading this correctly: Hornby are making a model of the J15 without having measured the real thing? Hmmm... I may delay my pre-order. Interesting about the Q6. I would have thought Bachmann's logic would also rule out any Scottish RTR releases. As I pointed out in another thread, there have been many ready-to-place NER buildings - it's odd that people are apparently willing to buy distinctive regional buildings, but not locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 My efforts would be no where near as good as RTR How do you know unless you give it a go? If costs are going up, my spending will be going down The irony is that with RTR going up, I see a time where kit building will become the cheaper option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 As to the Q6 being of low potential because of its limited geographical coverage, really? J15 s and SE&CR C Classes were seen all over the country then? I'm not an NER modeller but I was hoping for something Scottish next time. On this basis I might as well give up too! I hope it's another one of their red herrings, after all they once famously quoted that a Blue Pullman would never be made. Good job they did it when they did though as I suspect it would now be priced out of the market. The C class and J15 have one thing in common - the prettiness factor, plus tie in a smart pre grouping livery and you have a massively desirable item that appeals to those whose modelling interest normally falls well outside that area or period. A Q6 will simply never have that same unique appeal (as with BP) or 'pretty' factor (as with the C/J15), I would also doubt it would lend itself to the kind of impulse purchases which other classes undoubtedly possess. As for the D11/2, we should remember that it is effectively a spin off from the NRM edition of the D11, basically two classes from one, hence the numbers stack up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2014 Is it really necessary to again remind the grieving LNER/NER community of the reasons behind the SECR C and LBSCR E4 being modelled? These are locos in full running order on one of the nations most successful preserved railways - the Bluebell. Their sphere of operations in BR days has nothing to do with it. Their visibility to enthusiasts now is the reason they are a commercial stone-bonk certainty to sell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 One more thing they could ditch to save a bit of money is the awful weathering of coaching stock, which bears little, if any, relation to reality. Most passenger-carrying coaching stock went through washing plants regularly so the sides were usually fairly clean even if the underframe, bogies and roof were not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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