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It might have had something to do with platform length or the positioning of parcels or mail traffic for loading.  The idea of a brake towards the centre of the train is a consequence of giving the guard a good view in both directions; unstaffed stations are inferred here.

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Hi, Dave. The Nene Valley Railway photo’s are fantastic, and British stock on that line has always been quite unusual, if you see what I mean. A delightful line for all the preserved stock from continental countries. What a grim history for that tank engine, 64305.

 

The ECML photo’s are as great as ever, and I love the Deltic hauled expresses. Then that remarkable pink sky in C1423, a painting could be produced from that.

Surely those brake coaches would be as easy to marshall the right way round as the wrong way, or is there something I’m missing?

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

 

It's not at all easy to get a brake coach the "correct" way round. Without a turntable, turning wye or a lot of shuffling in the carriage sidings they just got left as they were, operationally it makes no odds.

I notice a lot of layouts have brakes at the ends of trains in perfect symmetry, it's not necessarily correct.

 

Mike.

It might have had something to do with platform length or the positioning of parcels or mail traffic for loading.  The idea of a brake towards the centre of the train is a consequence of giving the guard a good view in both directions; unstaffed stations are inferred here.

 

Portion trains need brakes in the middle of consists also.

 

Mike.

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Surely those brake coaches would be as easy to marshall the right way round as the wrong way, or is there something I’m missing?

 

 

 

Best thing about a brake wrong way round (brake compartment towards the main train) it was usually very sparsely populated as any passengers walking through the train rarely looked beyond the brake compartment.....

 

Cheers,

Mick

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Best thing about a brake wrong way round (brake compartment towards the main train) it was usually very sparsely populated as any passengers walking through the train rarely looked beyond the brake compartment.....

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Similarly if the brake wasn't the first vehicle in the train.

 

Mike.

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yes it is, in the very early years on the NVR they used to have the 4COR unit as hauled stock. along with, I think, a car from the birghton belle Pullman train.

 

 

That's correct. 4COR no 3142, "Brighton Belle" vehicle 290 (a Driving Motor Brake from set 3052) and there was also the "Bognor Buffet" - on loan from the NRM but torched by vandals whilst at Wansford.

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=551

 

Here's a fairly motley selection of SR stock (the 4COR was behind the leading two vehicles), with some East Coast super-power, taken in September 1981:

post-27843-0-36594300-1531695710_thumb.jpg

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Love the atmospheric shot of Grantham David.

I notice in your ECML pictures it seemed quite a common occurrence to have brake coaches the wrong way round

 

One thing to consider is that by then the brake coaches were no longer officially the wrong way round - that requirement had vanished by the time Mk2 stock was on the scene.  So just that it looked a bit 'untidy' as opposed to being officially 'not right'

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Hi, Dave. I like the photo's from Didcot in May, 1979. A splendid selection, and in C4506, with HST, 253008, on a down service, in May, 1979, you can see how the HST's were for their first few years, with no exhaust deflector plates on the power car roofs, or TGS's to accommodate the guard. Combined with the original yellow, blue and grey livery, they always made such a fine sight. A shame, but perhaps inevitable, that they should be so disfigured in later years.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

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brake coaches were no longer officially the wrong way round - that requirement had vanished by the time Mk2 stock was on the scene.

Was that requirement after the Welwyn accident, Mike, or did it predate that?

Edited by jwealleans
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Best thing about a brake wrong way round (brake compartment towards the main train) it was usually very sparsely populated as any passengers walking through the train rarely looked beyond the brake compartment.....

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

Exactly, and just the sort of thing to look for when my chosen train arrived at the station. I remember travelling in the very first coach, a Mk2 BSK, between Watford and Carlisle one day many decades ago. The guards area was facing away from the loco, and there were no signs to indicate the seating area was out of bounds, so I sat on my own in the carriage. 

 

No one joined me until (I think) Preston, when an elderly couple sat in another group of seats. 

 

However, I soon found out that the guard had not expected anyone to be in the carriage, because as we left Watford heading north - the carriage was plunged into complete darkness as we accelerated through the tunnels. There were no lights switched on at all. This situation remained through much of the journey, and it was a very eerie sensation to be racing through the next few tunnels at 100mph in the pitch black. 

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Nice set of photos again Dave.

 

The track in the first one looks like someones failed effort to get Peco Streamline points to line up on a curve. :jester:

There's two definite changes of radius through the LH part of the double junction, with some almost straight bits!

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited by melmerby
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Hi, Dave. I like the latest Edinburgh photo’s. A superb set, and in C7431, of 37053, on a down special, on 12th, April, 1986, that is a particularly well composed photo’ and it’s good seeing the carriages snaking over the crossovers as the train gets over to its running line.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

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May 1979 at Didcot for today.

 

Those who have followed this thread for a long time will notice the Morris Dancers again.

 

 

I was looking for something subtle in the train pictures - wasn't actually expecting to see a group of Morris Dancers  :jester:  :jester:

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Compare the first photo with the HST one to see how the trackwork was rationalised.

Double crossovers with switch diamonds(I think there was another set behind the camera going back across), eventually replaced with a simpler ladder of points between adjacent tracks.

Quite a common occurrence as 'direct' routings were simplified to enable easier, less costly maintenance. (Another nearby example would be the multiple crossovers at Saughton junction, between the Edin-GlasQS and Fife lines)

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a filmed version of J3264 is from 05:15 to 05:50 on this:

(hope you don't mind the link, Dave)

Class 27 push-pulls, 3-car cl.101 and a cl.40 hauled Aberdeen or Inverness express with Griddle car (all with copious amounts of blue smoke) would've been everyday, normal sights for this piece of railway.

Edited by keefer
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Back to Scotland now with a look at Edinburgh in the 70s and 80s. It's good to have photos taken in sunshine for a change.

 

Edinburgh Class 47 1967 l e Aug 73 J3264.jpg

 

.

Edinburgh Class 47 1967 l e Aug 73 J3264

 

Edinburgh Princes Street Gardens 37053 down special 12th April 86 C7431.jpg

Edinburgh Princes Street Gardens 37053 down special 12th April 86 C7431

 

David

J3264 - More likely 1969 from studying the number.

 

C7431 - Definitely 37033. According to http://www.class37info.co.uk/history.aspx, 1Z43 12.30 Edinburgh - Dundee footex and return.

 

.

Edited by Western Glory
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Hi, Dave. I like the East Anglian photo’s. The first one of the Southwold Railway bridge over the River Blyth, in October, 1972, is a great view, and there is detail to be seen which might be of help to modellers. J4495, at Bentley, with a class 31 on a Peterborough to Parkeston Quay service in June, 1975, has only 5 Mk1’s for the passengers. I suppose a short formation would be right for the traffic to be expected on such a service.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

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J3690 from a few days ago looks like it might be 55021

 

From today, J4376 is 47167 and J4496 could be 47115 or 116?

 

Fully agree with Andrew. Definitely 55 021 from the size of the nameplate. I think that you can safely remove the 'probably', David.

 

J4496, which I looked at this afternoon:  I was also pretty certain that it was 47 115 (the former Class 48 D1703), when I'd maximised and sharpened it, good to have a second opinion.

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J4495, at Bentley, with a class 31 on a Peterborough to Parkeston Quay service in June, 1975, has only 5 Mk1’s for the passengers. I suppose a short formation would be right for the traffic to be expected on such a service.

 

That working, at the time 1B69 down/1C18 up (previously 1B13 down/1C15 up), was a regular for us oiks after school, for a trip down to March to bunk around the depot, plus a bit of spotting of traffic going into and out of Whitemoor and along the Joint line. We'd time it so that we got back to March station in time for 1S38, the Colchester to Glasgow service (it became 3S38, a parcels only service, in 1971), which was re-engined from a Type 3 to a Type 4 at March - usually a class 37 handing over to a class 40. I still remember, one night, being particularly grumpy (as we'd hung around specifically for that train) when the relieving loco was D1106 - a Brush 4 that we saw day in, day out on the ECML.

Edited by 35A
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